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2012 NHL Draft: Part 2

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Old
06-25-2012, 09:13 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Yes...I'm saying it's an overly optimistic view on his potential and I don't see it. Someone likened Forsberg's potential to Ovechkin and that was absurd.
If you're referring to the post by sycamore earlier on this page, he likened his drive to Ovechkin's, not his potential.

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06-25-2012, 09:17 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Yes...I'm saying it's an overly optimistic view on his potential and I don't see it. Someone likened Forsberg's potential to Ovechkin and that was absurd.
There's Ovechkin of 2008 and the Ovechkin of 2011. Forsberg can reach 30/85.

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06-25-2012, 09:20 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Yes...I'm saying it's an overly optimistic view on his potential and I don't see it. Someone likened Forsberg's potential to Ovechkin and that was absurd.
Quote the post for us.

Semin obviously has, or at least had, 100 point potential. I think he's right that you don't know what that word means.

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06-25-2012, 09:21 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
If you're referring to the post by sycamore earlier on this page, he likened his drive to Ovechkin's, not his potential.
Think it was Liberation actually.

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Originally Posted by cleaver View Post
There's Ovechkin of 2008 and the Ovechkin of 2011. Forsberg can reach 30/85.
I believe the comparison was to OV at his best. I could see Forsberg being a 30G-80 point guy, with a two-way game.

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06-25-2012, 09:25 PM
  #405
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Again, quote the post. I don't know if it counts if it was Liberation anyway.

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06-25-2012, 09:31 PM
  #406
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Forsberg is Ovi without the edge.

Forsberg is known as a player who shoots a lot, which Ovi is known for too.

Ovi was like 215 at draft, but he was 18 years 8 months(missed the age cut off by 2 days), Forsberg is only 17 years 10 months right now, so its not like he's small and gonna be small for a long time.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=340

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06-25-2012, 09:33 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Think it was Liberation actually.



I believe the comparison was to OV at his best. I could see Forsberg being a 30G-80 point guy, with a two-way game.
There's a big difference between what I said and what you are saying I said.

I said he has similar qualities to Ovechkin, hes a shooter and likes to fake shots to get to the inside.

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06-25-2012, 09:33 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
Again, quote the post. I don't know if it counts if it was Liberation anyway.

Definitely does not count. Libs is even unqualified to pass along a weather report, bless him.

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06-25-2012, 09:36 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
Quote the post for us.

Semin obviously has, or at least had, 100 point potential. I think he's right that you don't know what that word means.
...I'm equating the two and saying it's overly optimistic. Personally speaking, I've never seen 100 point potential in Semin, too enigmatic, and I think people loosely throw out that benchmark.

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06-25-2012, 09:41 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
...I'm equating the two and saying it's overly optimistic. Personally speaking, I've never seen 100 point potential in Semin, too enigmatic, and I think people loosely throw out that benchmark.
During Semin's best season, in 2008-2009, he scored 79 points in 62 games, a 104-point pace over 82. In 2009-2010 he scored at a 94.3-point pace in 73 games (84 points). "100-point potential," to me, means that a player has the talent/skill to put up those numbers, and whether he does depends on his development/consistency/mental makeup/etc. I haven't seen enough of Kuznetsov to say whether he has that potential, but it's certainly not a totally outlandish claim. Semin absolutely is a "100-point potential" player.

Edit: And Liberation obviously wasn't trying to say Forsberg would be as good as Ovechkin there. You know that.

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06-25-2012, 09:44 PM
  #411
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Not being a stat monkey total points I would imagine have been getting lower and lower since the lockout so these future point estimates for prospects that aren't even over here yet are a bit inflated barring some new crackdown or the nets being enlarged, heh.

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06-25-2012, 09:48 PM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
...I'm equating the two and saying it's overly optimistic. Personally speaking, I've never seen 100 point potential in Semin, too enigmatic, and I think people loosely throw out that benchmark.
I equated certain styles.

Semin and Kovalchuk are said to have better shots than Ovechkin.

The thing that separates Ovechkin is how he's able to take his shot while being humped by a defense man and the goalie staying in their crease. You can have the greatest shot in the world, but as long as that relies on you being quite open like Kovalchuk and Semin, they will never been as good as Ovechkin, neither will Forsberg.

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06-25-2012, 09:50 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
I don't think he has 100 point potential, it's overly optimistic. He has a consistency issue and doesn't bring it game in and game out. If say he had the drive of a Tarasenko, I'd agree.
If he had the drive of, say, a kid who takes off against recommendations, post-surgery, to work on his cardio? The drive of that kid who hauled Russia to gold in a tournament in which, without him, they might not have even earned a medal?

The kid has warts, sure, but I'm not worried about his drive. His ability to be consistently efficient could use some work, but you can see him try.

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06-25-2012, 09:53 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
During Semin's best season, in 2008-2009, he scored 79 points in 62 games, a 104-point pace over 82. In 2009-2010 he scored at a 94.3-point pace in 73 games (84 points). "100-point potential," to me, means that a player has the talent/skill to put up those numbers, and whether he does depends on his development/consistency/mental makeup/etc. I haven't seen enough of Kuznetsov to say whether he has that potential, but it's certainly not a totally outlandish claim. Semin absolutely is a "100-point potential" player.

Edit: And Liberation obviously wasn't trying to say Forsberg would be as good as Ovechkin there. You know that.
It's a subjective claim and to your point on development, consistency, mental makeup, etc., that is exactly why I couldn't see him being a 100 point player, or even the potential to reach that. I don't base potential purely on talent and skill; drive, work ethic, character, etc. have to be considered.

It's hard to know/understand what Liberation is saying...

Back to Kuz, I don't see how people can see 100 point potential, especially with the way the league is headed. I mean, two players reached that plateau in the past two years.

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06-25-2012, 09:59 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
It's a subjective claim and to your point on development, consistency, mental makeup, etc., that is exactly why I couldn't see him being a 100 point player, or even the potential to reach that. I don't base potential purely on talent and skill; drive, work ethic, character, etc. have to be considered.

It's hard to know/understand what Liberation is saying...

Back to Kuz, I don't see how people can see 100 point potential, especially with the way the league is headed. I mean, two players reached that plateau in the past two years.
And Kuznetsov has been hailed by his countrymen, coaches, and other hockey minds as one of the few prospects on Earth to be like one of those two aforementioned players. Obviously no guarantees, but for you to say that the potential isn't even there is foolish.

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06-25-2012, 09:59 PM
  #416
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If he had the drive of, say, a kid who takes off against recommendations, post-surgery, to work on his cardio? The drive of that kid who hauled Russia to gold in a tournament in which, without him, they might not have even earned a medal?

The kid has warts, sure, but I'm not worried about his drive. His ability to be consistently efficient could use some work, but you can see him try.
I would hope playing for your country brings the best out of you. It looked to do likewise for Ovechkin and Semin at the Worlds.

I've seen his games in the KHL were he was absolutely dominant and others were he was invisible/disinterested. Even at the World Juniors, he looked unstoppable in some games, followed by underwhelming performances. In the long haul of an NHL season can he maintain the same drive, competitiveness, and consistency to be a 100 point player? I don't see it. I think he can be a ppg player, just not an 100 point guy.

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06-25-2012, 10:21 PM
  #417
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For the record, I believe Kuznetsov and Forsberg will be excellent NHLers with the Caps. I'm pumped to have them in the organization.

Regular season points are nice and all...but really, it's time we all start focusing on the prize. We caught a glimpse of the kind of hockey the Caps have to play to win the Cup. Intense, physical, defense-first with a killer PP (we didn't see the killer PP unfortunately) and top goaltending.

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06-25-2012, 10:24 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
Again, quote the post. I don't know if it counts if it was Liberation anyway.
So glad I don't have to delete posts and can just laugh... And thanks!

Lib abuse!

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06-25-2012, 10:36 PM
  #419
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So glad I don't have to delete posts and can just laugh... And thanks!

Lib abuse!
Did you quit as mod? Been off the boards a bunch myself.

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06-25-2012, 10:39 PM
  #420
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@HSHS
We can all abuse you more easily now too. It's not moderator abuse anymore.

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06-25-2012, 10:39 PM
  #421
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I'm more excited about the one that's actually going to come over here to play.

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06-25-2012, 10:42 PM
  #422
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I'm more excited about the one that's actually going to come over here to play.
which one is that? they both are 2 years out, right?

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06-25-2012, 10:46 PM
  #423
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Did you quit as mod? Been off the boards a bunch myself.
The Law won...

Still no regrets. And won't support this site with clicks as I used to. But not naive enough to think my mini-protest matters.

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06-25-2012, 10:50 PM
  #424
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The Law won...

Still no regrets. And won't support this site with clicks as I used to. But not naive enough to think my mini-protest matters.
Bummer. Still, I hope you'll continue to post. These boards need more sanity. And FWIW, I support your mini-protest. Solidarity!

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06-25-2012, 10:50 PM
  #425
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which one is that? they both are 2 years out, right?
One's two years out because he's not ready. One's two years out because he's not committed to be here (and I'd argue he's actually four years out from his draft class).

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