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Jordan Staal traded to Carolina for Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin, 8th overall

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06-25-2012, 08:51 AM
  #276
TorstenFrings
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
I actually think what you said about Jordan's last name has a lot to do with it in one sense. Eric Staal had to be getting frustrated with the departure of a lot of players he has played with over the years (Williams, Ladd, Stillman, Whitney, Cole, etc..). I imagine Eric made it clear to Rutherford because right after the season ended, Rutherford said his top priority was to get someone to play with Eric. While the trade improves the team in the short-term, this was also about keeping Eric happy and wanting to stay in Carolina IMO.

For that reason and because Rutherford isn't really a cut-throat GM, (as Canes poster Bleedgreen mentioned a few times in the pre-trade threads on the trade-board), he over-paid to get the guy he wanted.

For me, Sutter and the #8 for Jordan would have been a fair trade given all the circumstances. IMO, adding Dumoulin makes it an overpayment on the Canes part, but I'm not surprised by it based on how Rutherford operates. I actually think Dumoulin is the guy who the Canes will miss most 5 years from now when you look back on this trade. Losing Sutter hurts, but getting Jordan back makes up for that and then some. No way to know who Carolina would have picked at #8 and how he would work out. But I see Dumoulin being a shutdown top 4 guy for years to come and the type of defender the Canes don't have in their system.
Sutter+8th was the floor to me, that had to be in there to make it worthwhile. I would not have cried myself to sleep if that had ben all.
But with package deals and futures in return for the by far best player in the deal you have to overpay at least a little to make it happen. Both Rutherford and Shero were pure class about this though, shown by both the deal and their attitude about it afterwards, so that's what makes me happiest. I shudder to imagine they'd acted like all of us (both sides) on the trade board at times.

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06-25-2012, 09:36 AM
  #277
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Not expecting much drop off in the 3rd line C role. It's when/if Crosby or Malkin go down and Sutter has to be a top 2 line C that worries me. He hasn't shown much ability to handle that in his career. Staal handled it well last season.
Yep - we shall see..

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06-25-2012, 09:40 AM
  #278
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The biggest difference between fans and GM's is that GM's have personal relationships with these people. That's what they are...people. Not chips to play with. I think both GM's made it well worth the other's while. It's another deal Ray has done that has really been a win-win.

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06-25-2012, 10:14 AM
  #279
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I think the biggest difference between Sutter and Staal is how they achieve what they do. While they do have some similarities, Jordan is more physical and can lean on guys and wear them down. (I don't mean physical in terms of heavy checks, just body play in general). While not shying away from physical play, Sutter can't really wear a guy down, but he is effective in different ways. Both have good reach and use that to their advantage. Sutter is very fast..and I think faster than Jordan (but it's hard to tell as Jordan can be deceiving because of his size). Sutter's biggest asset IMO is his brain. His hockey sense is great and he almost NEVER makes a mistake. He's effective defensively, because he's always in the right spot and anticipates well. That's a reason why he rarely takes penalties, it's because he doesn't have to reach, hook, trip etc.. because he's already in the proper position to make the play.

There are a number of Canes fans that really would have liked to see Sutter as a winger on Eric Staal's line because his speed on the outside, his hockey sense, and his under-rated offensive abilities would have been a good match, but he was too valuable in his defensive specialist role.

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06-25-2012, 10:18 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
I think the biggest difference between Sutter and Staal is how they achieve what they do. While they do have some similarities, Jordan is more physical and can lean on guys and wear them down. (I don't mean physical in terms of heavy checks, just body play in general). While not shying away from physical play, Sutter can't really wear a guy down, but he is effective in different ways. Both have good reach and use that to their advantage. Sutter is very fast..and I think faster than Jordan (but it's hard to tell as Jordan can be deceiving because of his size). Sutter's biggest asset IMO is his brain. His hockey sense is great and he almost NEVER makes a mistake. He's effective defensively, because he's always in the right spot and anticipates well. That's a reason why he rarely takes penalties, it's because he doesn't have to reach, hook, trip etc.. because he's already in the proper position to make the play.

There are a number of Canes fans that really would have liked to see Sutter as a winger on Eric Staal's line because his speed on the outside, his hockey sense, and his under-rated offensive abilities would have been a good match, but he was too valuable in his defensive specialist role.
JS is like Bowser... He starts slowly but when he is at top speed he can fly.

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06-25-2012, 10:26 AM
  #281
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JS is like Bowser... He starts slowly but when he is at top speed he can fly.
DK is so much better. DK has that long monkey reach. Bowser has stupid koopa stump arms. What a bad analogy.

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06-25-2012, 10:30 AM
  #282
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DK is so much better. DK has that long monkey reach. Bowser has stupid koopa stump arms. What a bad analogy.
This is mostly true. In terms of looks and body type, I'd go with WaLuigi but DK or Bowser for the speed analogy.

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06-25-2012, 10:30 AM
  #283
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DK is so much better. DK has that long monkey reach. Bowser has stupid koopa stump arms. What a bad analogy.
Yoshi was a playboy so step...

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06-25-2012, 10:32 AM
  #284
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Yoshi was a playboy so step...
I was a Wario man myself.

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06-25-2012, 10:33 AM
  #285
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Toad had the low center of gravity thing going for him.

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06-25-2012, 10:34 AM
  #286
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I was a Wario man myself.
Me and Yoshi were tight, #wingman.

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06-25-2012, 10:38 AM
  #287
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you guys clearly never used Kirby in Super Smash Bros. not much reach at all but that mutha was a tank. think Staal without the reach (which, technically, made his offense click) but a more accurate shot.

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06-25-2012, 12:07 PM
  #288
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I heard that Sutter was going to address the media today. Does anyone know when that is and if there is a stream for it? (or has he already done it?)

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06-25-2012, 12:12 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
I heard that Sutter was going to address the media today. Does anyone know when that is and if there is a stream for it? (or has he already done it?)
I doubt they'll be a stream for it but I'm sure they'll put it up on the Pens website. I imagine it'll be around lunch time/early afternoon.

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06-25-2012, 12:13 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
I heard that Sutter was going to address the media today. Does anyone know when that is and if there is a stream for it? (or has he already done it?)
I haven't heard a peep from him yet. Hopefully soon. Rumor is today. Not sure it will be a presser, conference call or statement. I'd be paranoid of a Carter situation if we were a lesser team. Just dead silence since the trade. Can't imagine he's unhappy to come here though. Although having to move and all from whatever place he has in Carolina during the winter and find a place here is kind of hectic.

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06-25-2012, 12:24 PM
  #291
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It's a media conference call at 2PM

Michael Smith @MSmithCanes
Brandon Sutter will speak to the media via conference call at 2 p.m. today.

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06-25-2012, 12:30 PM
  #292
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It's a media conference call at 2PM

Michael Smith @MSmithCanes
Brandon Sutter will speak to the media via conference call at 2 p.m. today.
Shall I start the obviously sweepstakes? I'm going for a conservative 6.

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06-25-2012, 12:35 PM
  #293
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Shall I start the obviously sweepstakes? I'm going for a conservative 6.
Canes fans told me he's more of a "for sure" guy.

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06-25-2012, 01:04 PM
  #294
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Thanks. I heard that Sutter was shocked by the trade, but I can kind of see why. The Canes management have raved about the kid, made him an Alternate captain at an early age, and Rutherford has said for a few years he's part of the core. I'm sure it came as a surprise to him no matter what rumors are floating around out there. I'm sure he was a bit disappointed as any player would be being traded for the first time in his career from a place he likes.

That said, I don't think you have anything to worry about. He comes from a professional family and he knows that it's a business. He'll talk about how excited he is to come to Pittsburgh and looking forward to playing for the Pens, etc... Once he gets on the rink, it will be business as usual. He's a class act.

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06-25-2012, 01:05 PM
  #295
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Pens Inside Scoop ‏@PensInsideScoop
#Pens Sutter: I didn't see (the trade) coming at all. It's a bit shock to the system. Now I'm relaxed and getting excited about it -SK

Pens Inside Scoop ‏@PensInsideScoop
#Pens Sutter: I'm at a point in my career where it's about winning. Playing behind 87 and 71 is big opportunity for me -SK

Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG
Brandons Sutter on Pgh.: "I’m 4 years into my career now and I’m yet to play in a playoff game. I’m at a point now where it’s about winning"

Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG
Brandon Sutter: "I don’t want to be looked at as just a defensive player."

Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG
Brandon Sutter, on joining an unfamiliar team: "It's definitely a whole new bag of worms for me."

Pens Inside Scoop ‏@PensInsideScoop
#Pens Sutter: I was at a friends play and Ron Francis called (about trade). He thanked me for everything. Caught me by surprise -SK


Last edited by WVU71: 06-25-2012 at 01:13 PM.
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06-25-2012, 01:10 PM
  #296
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Malks4TopWings: I know from past experience that you (also) like advanced stats. Do try and look up Sutter's. He played overwhelmingly the toughest competition of any forward on that team, and was the only regular with a higher QOC (and CORSI Rel. QOC) than Tim Gleason. Jordan has never drawn as consistently tough matchups as Brandon Sutter did last year. That is of course because opponents will reserve a lot of their strenght for Sid/Geno, but just the same.

He ended up a -3 on a -30 team. Sutter will/should draw every bit as tough opposition as Staal did, and while there isn't the same scoring upside, we are still talking about a very significant salary difference both next season and more so going forward - a difference that can be committed to making our REAL stars that much more lethal (and like I have said before Staal is not among them, we are a Sid plus Geno team. Sid+Geno+Letang if you want to stretch it) - and/or bolster the D some more.
I haven't used raw QOC numbers in ages, but Staal's Corsi Rel QOC - the most accurate stat for this kind of analysis, has him dwarfing the next center on his team to a more significant degree than Sutter. Sutter's higher Corsi QOC is likely a product of playing on a much weaker team considering the disparities from each team. I don't think anybody would suggest Carolina faced more difficult opponents this year than Pittsburgh.

I don't care about plus minus over one season. Staal, with almost exactly the same matchups, finished with a +12 Corsi rating and a +5 Corsi Rel. Sutter finished among the worst on his team with a -9 Corsi and -6.6 Corsi Rel. How much of those are team effects remain to be seen, and Sutter started more in the defensive zone than Staal, but I'm not about to say that Sutter can take over Staal's role on this team without us missing a beat. There's a clear downgrade there, whether you think the team is better off without him or not.

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06-25-2012, 01:14 PM
  #297
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Pens Inside Scoop ‏@PensInsideScoop
#Pens Sutter: Talked to Bylsma, Shero and Crosby already -SK

Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG
Sutter, on 1st reaction: Your heart kind of stops, You just take a deep breath. … It was a tough couple of days. A shock, more than anything

Pens Inside Scoop ‏@PensInsideScoop
#Pens Sutter: Would like to get settled before training camp. Meet coaches and talk, learn the city -SK

Pens Inside Scoop ‏@PensInsideScoop
#Pens Sutter: I'm not replacing anyone. Jordan is a good player. I hope to find his level offensively. I think I can -SK

Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG

Sutter, on whether there's pressure moving into spot filled by Staal: "I’m not trying to replace anyone. I’m just trying to play my game."

Pens Inside Scoop ‏@PensInsideScoop
#Pens Sutter: The Penguins were looking for a deal and I'm glad they picked me. -SK

Pens Inside Scoop ‏@PensInsideScoop
#Pens Sutter: I enjoy playing against other team's better players. I like the challenge. -SK


Last edited by WVU71: 06-25-2012 at 01:20 PM.
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06-25-2012, 01:17 PM
  #298
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Quote:
Chip Alexander ‏@ice_chip
Sutter on getting news: "Your heart kind of stops."

Chip Alexander ‏@ice_chip
Sutter: "I don't want to be looked at as just a defensive player." Said hopes to have bigger offensive role with Pens.

@ice_chip
Sutter on trade; "I didn't see it coming at all." Called it a "shock to the system."

Michael Smith ‏@MSmithCanes
Sutter: "I'm not (in Pittsburgh) to replace anyone." Said Staal is a great player.
....

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06-25-2012, 01:21 PM
  #299
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Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG
Sutter: “I remember coming into Pittsburgh and playing against Crosby or Malkin, which wasn’t always a ton of fun.”

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06-25-2012, 01:23 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by WVU71 View Post
Pens Inside Scoop ‏@PensInsideScoop
#Pens Sutter: I didn't see (the trade) coming at all. It's a bit shock to the system. Now I'm relaxed and getting excited about it -SK

Pens Inside Scoop ‏@PensInsideScoop
#Pens Sutter: I'm at a point in my career where it's about winning. Playing behind 87 and 71 is big opportunity for me -SK

Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG
Brandons Sutter on Pgh.: "I’m 4 years into my career now and I’m yet to play in a playoff game. I’m at a point now where it’s about winning"

Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG
Brandon Sutter: "I don’t want to be looked at as just a defensive player."

Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG
Brandon Sutter, on joining an unfamiliar team: "It's definitely a whole new bag of worms for me."

Pens Inside Scoop ‏@PensInsideScoop
#Pens Sutter: I was at a friends play and Ron Francis called (about trade). He thanked me for everything. Caught me by surprise -SK
He goes to plays?

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