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Old
05-17-2012, 11:02 PM
  #1
TGOTC
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Official 2012 Coyotes Off-Season Thread

Offseason shopping list

A goon that will hurt people and is capable of playing hockey
A #1 Center
mobile defensemen
An owner
Heavy hitting forwards
Improve the powerplay

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05-17-2012, 11:06 PM
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Offseason shopping list

A goon that will hurt people and is capable of playing hockey
I assume this is only on the shopping list because if Raffi Torres makes one more suspendable hit he'll be Shanabanned for life.

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05-17-2012, 11:12 PM
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More money to pay the refs should be #1

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05-17-2012, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TGOTC View Post
Offseason shopping list

A goon that will hurt people and is capable of playing hockey
A #1 Center
mobile defensemen
An owner
Heavy hitting forwards
Improve the powerplay
This times 1000000000000000000000000000

I don't want someone who abides by the code. I want someone that will just come out and deck a player that takes liberties against his teammates. I don't care about the 5-min major...it will only take a couple times before whoever tries to do something will understand that if he does do something he's going to get pummeled.

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05-17-2012, 11:27 PM
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Looking at the successful teams in the playoffs I note that they are big and high scoring. I know LA didn't score for most of the season but that was all on their old coach.

We need: 2 big and talented wings to surround Hanzal. We need a fast center to take the place of Lankow and anchor a 2nd line with speed, not size. Maybe Miele, if we are lucky. We need Gordon, Pyatt and another big, big banger on that line. I agree that Torres, when he comes back, will play soft, so we need a Steve Ott type.

Dump Whitney (we got as much as he had to give, and he will be 41)
Dump Chipchurra. If we don't have talent to beat him out on the bottom 2 lines, we will never get past LA
Dump Lankow. We need way more strength and speed.
Dumb(p) Biz. He didn't fight, he didn't draw penalties, he skated in circles and tweeted his way through the season.
Dumb(p )Torres. He's a liability. He'll either play soft or get tossed out of the league.
Dump Roszival. We have great d-line talent coming up.

We should also trade with Edmonton and give up some young defensive talent for some 1st line wingers, of which they have an abundance.


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05-17-2012, 11:28 PM
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panic-mongers

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05-17-2012, 11:34 PM
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More money to pay the refs should be #1
Or more money for acting classes.

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Old
05-18-2012, 12:11 AM
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panic-mongers
No, not at all.

Many thought that a team such as ours with little talent but a great goalie and tight defensive system could go far. We went very far, but not all the way.

To go all the way we need a major upgrade in talent and skill.

Luck, system and hot goalie can only get you so far. I think that we overachieved.

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05-18-2012, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Scottrocks58 View Post
No, not at all.

Many thought that a team such as ours with little talent but a great goalie and tight defensive system could go far. We went very far, but not all the way.

To go all the way we need a major upgrade in talent and skill.

Luck, system and hot goalie can only get you so far. I think that we overachieved.
Indeed, for long-suffering fans who have never seen our team win a playoff series before, going far feels good. Really good. However, we're starting to see that while what we have can get you far (but not always), it's rarely enough to get you all the way.

And getting all the way should be the overall goal of a franchise. Personally, I'm realistic and understand that building a shot at going all the way doesn't happen overnight or in a single season, however, I think the Coyotes in particular, if we make the right moves in the offseason, can give this another go, push deep into the playoffs, and give ourselves a good chance to win it all.

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05-18-2012, 12:43 AM
  #10
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This post is insulting to true Coyote fans. While the chances of coming back from 0-3 are highly remote.......starting a thread about the off-season is just wrong.

Let's win Sunday......we can. Then we'll take our chances Tuesday.

When we're eliminated we can talk about the off-season. This team deserves better than this thread right now.

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05-18-2012, 01:28 AM
  #11
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This team deserves better than this thread right now.
And we also deserve better than the half-assed effort we saw the first 2 games. There comes a point where you have to look at the situation (0-3) and realize against a team the way that L.A. is playing, our chances of a comeback are less than one percent. Sure we may win on Sunday, but then what? We won't win 3 games before L.A. wins one. It's not negativity, it's realism. I'm very proud of the boys, but I also see nothing wrong with this thread.

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05-18-2012, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Scottrocks58 View Post
No, not at all.

Many thought that a team such as ours with little talent but a great goalie and tight defensive system could go far. We went very far, but not all the way.

To go all the way we need a major upgrade in talent and skill.

Luck, system and hot goalie can only get you so far. I think that we overachieved.
agree 100%

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Old
05-18-2012, 10:40 AM
  #13
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Sometimes the best time to evaluate your strengths and weaknesses is when you're right in the thick of things.

Right now, we can see exactly what it is that we need. While Tippett and the boys are certainly focused on game 4, I don't doubt for a minute that GMDM is already pondering what we need to look for and work on in the off-season.

It's not over until it's over - but it's also not too early to discuss what needs to be done.

So if the team DOES come back Sunday and takes the series and then goes to the SCF - is there not going to be any discussion about what the team needs to become better for next year? I am sure that no matter how successful a team is, there will always be room for self-evaluation and planning.

My school year is already coming to an end, and I'm already thinking about what I need to do next year to be a better teacher. It doesn't mean that I've given up on this year; it just means that it is fresh in my mind and I can see what my strentgths and weaknesses are. Give me a week or two off and I'll probably start forgetting things.

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Old
05-18-2012, 10:46 AM
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Tom Sestito would be a perfect replacement for Bissonnette.

He can hit, fight, and also pot some goals here and there.

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05-18-2012, 11:42 AM
  #15
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As great as Mike Smith has been for us this season, can he repeat this next season or will he seem like a fluke?

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05-18-2012, 11:52 AM
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There is a huge difference between a playoff team and a contender. The Coyotes were built to be a bubble playoff team, which they were and they managed to get the division title in a tight division where they could have just as easily missed the playoffs. The fact that the team won in the playoffs is pretty impressive given that they were not built as a contender. The team concept and goaltending no doubt got them this far.

People talking about adding all of these pieces is great, but I think next season this team is still built to be a playoff bubble team and not a contender. It takes quite a bit of money to build a contender, either that or excellent drafting for a long period of time that builds from within. The Coyotes are likely to have neither next season.

There will definitely be tweaks, and they can see that this team is capable of going far as it is. There are glaring weaknesses, just as they were at the start of the season. Again, it's hard to add a first line in the course of one offseason, and that is one of the major pieces missing from this team.

You know one thing I've been thinking about lately...how much does Doan get on his next contract? I've always said that this team will not make the playoffs if Doan is their best player. As they have surrounded Doan with better players the team has made the playoffs. Doan is obviously the captain and means a lot to the team, but I don't think he's a $5M a year player anymore. You have to figure that in the coming years he's going to get more often injured as he ages given the style of game he plays. It'd be nice to see Doan continue to take a bit of a hometown discount to help spread the money around the team for improvements.

For some reason I see a big splash of the Coyotes trading for Iginla, but I've been thinking that the past couple of years. Iginla, like Doan, has seen his best days behind him but could really spark the team and bring Doan to a new level.

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05-18-2012, 12:05 PM
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While it is nice to discuss what we need, none of this is going to matter(at least to me anyway) if the team isn't going to be here next season. One thing is certain, having the league as the owner isn't going to make this team better next season and we may not even make the playoffs at all as a result. Something has to give here if this team is going to be a real contender in the next season or 2 or 3 relocation or not. Tippett and GMDM have done all they can without a real owner and judging by last nights press conference and by GMDM's facial expressions in the past, it looks like deep down those 2 have a few choice words at minimum to say to Gary Bettman and the NHL. Of course, I don't blame them.

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05-18-2012, 12:22 PM
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There is a huge difference between a playoff team and a contender. The Coyotes were built to be a bubble playoff team, which they were and they managed to get the division title in a tight division where they could have just as easily missed the playoffs. The fact that the team won in the playoffs is pretty impressive given that they were not built as a contender. The team concept and goaltending no doubt got them this far.

People talking about adding all of these pieces is great, but I think next season this team is still built to be a playoff bubble team and not a contender. It takes quite a bit of money to build a contender, either that or excellent drafting for a long period of time that builds from within. The Coyotes are likely to have neither next season.

There will definitely be tweaks, and they can see that this team is capable of going far as it is. There are glaring weaknesses, just as they were at the start of the season. Again, it's hard to add a first line in the course of one offseason, and that is one of the major pieces missing from this team.

You know one thing I've been thinking about lately...how much does Doan get on his next contract? I've always said that this team will not make the playoffs if Doan is their best player. As they have surrounded Doan with better players the team has made the playoffs. Doan is obviously the captain and means a lot to the team, but I don't think he's a $5M a year player anymore. You have to figure that in the coming years he's going to get more often injured as he ages given the style of game he plays. It'd be nice to see Doan continue to take a bit of a hometown discount to help spread the money around the team for improvements.

For some reason I see a big splash of the Coyotes trading for Iginla, but I've been thinking that the past couple of years. Iginla, like Doan, has seen his best days behind him but could really spark the team and bring Doan to a new level.
Seeing that Doan got a taste of a deep playoff run Shane may end up signing with another team regardless of the state of the Franchise. Doan has done all he can for this franchise and chances are other teams will offer him more for his services. Doan has earned the right to leave on his terms and I wouldn't be surprised if he is gone next season.

I hate to say this as it may upset a alot of Coyotes Fans but as great as Doan has been for this franchise, maybe it would be best to part ways with him and let a new leader come out naturally from within going forward. Doan isnt getting any younger and it is a matter of when he won't be a Coyotes player anymore and maybe he can get the best out of his remaining years if he didn't have the C and Doan not being captain will be likely if he goes to another team. Our younger players and anyone we bring in are going to have to adjust without Doan at some point and I would rather the adjustment be a short term issue rather than a long term one.

OEL seems to be on the fast track to being the next captain of the team.

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05-18-2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottrocks58 View Post
Looking at the successful teams in the playoffs I note that they are big and high scoring. I know LA didn't score for most of the season but that was all on their old coach.

We need: 2 big and talented wings to surround Hanzal. We need a fast center to take the place of Lankow and anchor a 2nd line with speed, not size. Maybe Miele, if we are lucky. We need Gordon, Pyatt and another big, big banger on that line. I agree that Torres, when he comes back, will play soft, so we need a Steve Ott type.

Dump Whitney (we got as much as he had to give, and he will be 41)
Dump Chipchurra. If we don't have talent to beat him out on the bottom 2 lines, we will never get past LA
Dump Lankow. We need way more strength and speed.
Dumb(p) Biz. He didn't fight, he didn't draw penalties, he skated in circles and tweeted his way through the season.
Dumb(p )Torres. He's a liability. He'll either play soft or get tossed out of the league.
Dump Roszival. We have great d-line talent coming up.

We should also trade with Edmonton and give up some young defensive talent for some 1st line wingers, of which they have an abundance.
I strongly disagree with dumping whitney and torres

I disagree but wont be largely upset about losing chip. He does take away some games from bissonnette though.

I think bissonnette is still under contract right?

I agree with rozy and langkow.

Id love to have another scoring winger and and a true number one center. Having guys like boedker and korpi on the bottom two lines would fit their roles a lot better

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Old
05-18-2012, 12:47 PM
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Seeing that Doan got a taste of a deep playoff run Shane may end up signing with another team regardless of the state of the Franchise. Doan has done all he can for this franchise and chances are other teams will offer him more for his services. Doan has earned the right to leave on his terms and I wouldn't be surprised if he is gone next season.



OEL seems to be on the fast track to being the next captain of the team.
I agree with you about Doan.

I disagree about OEL. It takes a special personality to be a leader. OEL may well be the best player on the team but that doesn't make him a clubhouse leader. Certainly not at his age.

Yandle, despite the off year, has that personality and that loyalty to the club. He will be the next captain.

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05-18-2012, 01:22 PM
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Seeing that Doan got a taste of a deep playoff run Shane may end up signing with another team regardless of the state of the Franchise. Doan has done all he can for this franchise and chances are other teams will offer him more for his services. Doan has earned the right to leave on his terms and I wouldn't be surprised if he is gone next season.
I don't think I agree on that. I heard Doan say once in an interview that he's stuck around for so long because his job as a player isn't done yet. While I certainly don't know him personally, I just can't see him bailing on his team and leaving his family here while he rents an apartment in some other city. It's essentially starting from ground zero and at his age that doesn't seem smart to me. You guys, our team isn't far off. We were four wins from the SC finals with no star talent.

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05-18-2012, 01:37 PM
  #22
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I agree with you about Doan.

I disagree about OEL. It takes a special personality to be a leader. OEL may well be the best player on the team but that doesn't make him a clubhouse leader. Certainly not at his age.

Yandle, despite the off year, has that personality and that loyalty to the club. He will be the next captain.
Good point as I often forget that being very talented doesn't equal being a real leader.

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I don't think I agree on that. I heard Doan say once in an interview that he's stuck around for so long because his job as a player isn't done yet. While I certainly don't know him personally, I just can't see him bailing on his team and leaving his family here while he rents an apartment in some other city. It's essentially starting from ground zero and at his age that doesn't seem smart to me. You guys, our team isn't far off. We were four wins from the SC finals with no star talent.
People are known to change for one reason or another. Paul Kariya said that he wanted to stay and win a Stanley Cup with Anaheim and right after he lost Game 7 to the Devils in 2003, he signed with Colorado.

Yes, Doan has a home and family in AZ but if he is willing to leave this team due to relocation and "rents an apartment in some other city" for the chance to not only win the cup and get a big payday, why wouldn't he just leave now after experencing something for the 1st ever time(a deep playoff run) that is going to at miminum give him some 2nd thoughts? I hope I am wrong and Doan stays but the possibility of him staying just went lower as a result of this playoff run.

Also, Doan and his family are known to be in Alberta for much of the Summer so I don't think having a home in AZ matters all that much in his decision making.

Then again, who knows?

While we are 4 wins away with this kind of team we have, the journey to get back to the WCF's let alone the playoffs is a long and hard road. A road that is going to get harder not only if we don't get a real owner very soon but without an owner, a much harder road as teams like Chicago, St. Louis, and Dallas make the moves they need to and get better as a result.

Looking at the Western Conference next season.

Pacific Division
Kings (up)
San Jose and Anaheim are big question marks right now as they can go either way but with San Jose the range is not making the playoffs to being a cup contender.
Dallas(UP)

NorthWest
Vancouver(stays the same)
Edmonton(up)
Calgary(down)
Minnesota(up)
Colorado(up)

Central Division
Detroit(always a threat and could be back to being a contender again)
St. Louis(up)
Chicago(up)
Nashville(up if they can hold on to their free agents)
Columbus(down)


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Old
05-18-2012, 01:51 PM
  #23
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Good point as I often forget that being very talented doesn't equal being a real leader.



People are known to change for reason or another. Paul Kariya said that he wanted to stay and win a Stanley Cup with Anaheim and right after he lost Game 7 to the Devils in 2003, he signed with Colorado.

Yes, Doan has a home and family in AZ but if he is willing to leave this team due to relocation and "rents an apartment in some other city" for the chance to not only win the cup and get a big payday, why wouldn't he just leave now after experencing something for the 1st ever time(a deep playoff run) that is going to at miminum give him some 2nd thoughts? I hope I am wrong and Doan stays but the possibility of him staying just went lower as a result of this playoff run.

Also, Doan and his family are known to be be in Alberta for much of the Summer so i don't think having a home in AZ matters all that much in his decision making.
I guess this will be a situation where we agree to disagree. He's lived in az for the majority of the year for the past 15 years. You don't think his kids have strongly rooted friendships by now? I just think it would be tough to move them. It's hard to get into the playoffs and get back into the WCF. How can he gauge if a team he is moving to will get him there? He stands just as good of a shot if he stays here, especially if a new owner gives new interest to free agents. I think if anything, he stays here because of the playoff run. Knowing they were this close....one or two pieces away. Also, I'm sure he's already had a chance to leave for a bigger payday elsewhere, so for me that is a non-issue. We will pay him fairly and I think for a guy like that that's all he asks for.

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05-18-2012, 03:33 PM
  #24
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Doan is staying. If he hasn't left yet, he's never leaving. Not many guys like that in today's sports, but he's a true Captain.

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05-18-2012, 05:19 PM
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Doan is staying. If he hasn't left yet, he's never leaving. Not many guys like that in today's sports, but he's a true Captain.
If he doesn't win a cup with us, I hope we do him a favor like the Bruins did for Raymond Bourque. I'm certain every single fan would be fully behind Shane Doan if we traded him to another team in his last season for the chance to win a cup (assuming we were also not contenders that year).

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