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Pens trade Michalek to Phoenix for Harrison Ruopp, Marc Cheverie, 3rd-round pick

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06-23-2012, 12:03 AM
  #101
CrosbyMalkin
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I love both deals. It all comes down to using the cap the best because the Pens will spend to the cap like they have for the last several years. I would have given away Michalek and or Martin. Shero can spend that extra 4.5 million better. Also add in the $2 million savings from Staal to Suttter who will give you near the same 3rd line play and you now have $6.5 million cap space you did not have before today.

Cap space is not all we got out of this because Sutter was an 11th overall pick himself and is only 23 and has put up 20+ goals and 40+ points in a season before. I never thought we would be able to get a top 50 prospect and the 8th overall pick plus Sutter after what Staals agent said. I really think we got fair value plus cap room that makes more sense for the 3rd line center spot. I would take a 3rd for Martin also and use his 5 million better. He will be traded by next summer because many of our D prospects are ready now or are a year away.

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06-23-2012, 12:04 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
Yeah, I'm sure you both have all the intel about what else was available for Michalek.

"We should have gotten more for him!!11" is one of the most asinine responses to a trade in all of sports. Congratulations.
Okay, how about "We should have either gotten more or kept Michalek"? Happy now?

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IF we had needed to dump his salary, we could have done it afterwards.
This.

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06-23-2012, 12:04 AM
  #103
Uncle Jorgi
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It doesn't matter if we get one of the prime UFA's. Michalek being here would not have prevented us from signing Parise or Suter or whatever.

IF we had needed to dump his salary, we could have done it afterwards. Judge this deal on its own merits. It is horrible.

It is a 25 year old AHL backup with a below .900 save percentage. A physical project D-man who is 10th or so on our non-NHL depth chart, at best, and a friggin third rounder.

It simply sucks. I would rather have Whitney's RIGHTS than any of this crap. For a TOP4 defenseman, signed to reasonable terms for two more years. It beggars belief.
What was i thinking. Go ahead, go off the deep end. I forgot ... it's what you do.

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06-23-2012, 12:05 AM
  #104
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If they dump Martin as well the Pens will have $20 million going into July 1, with Niskanen and Crosby to sign. Crosby is taking about the same cap hit, so you have to think that Shero wants Parise AND one of the top defensemen.

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06-23-2012, 12:06 AM
  #105
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http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...34+45+46+63+67

11-12 regular season and playoffs. FWIW, Michalek was well below Martin.

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06-23-2012, 12:08 AM
  #106
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Also, the Pens don't need to move any salary in the unlikely scenario they pick up both Suter and Parise, but they will need to dump salary afterwards in order to fill out the rest of the roster.

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06-23-2012, 12:10 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Lamar Latrell View Post
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...34+45+46+63+67

11-12 regular season and playoffs. FWIW, Michalek was well below Martin.
Yeah, he was poor last year and as noted, Martin's poor play just masked his deficiencies. If Michalek played poorly again next year it would next to impossible to shed the last couple years of his contract. That's why I don't have any problem with the deal. Even if he bounced back a bit, he's not great value for his contract.

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06-23-2012, 12:10 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Illinest View Post
He did get pushed around, he did not block as many shots. I think maybe you weren't watching enough. He was bad this year.

But I did like his game quite a bit in the season prior. I liked Michalek until his game slipped.
If you're referring to his time in Phoenix, it's obviously clear why he didn't block as many shots. It's the system. Our system is not like the Rangers where it feeds into shots being blocked. Because of our heavy forechecking style, we leave ourselves open to quite a few more 3 on 2, 2 on 1, etc breakouts than the average team. This is why Shero is drafting great skating defensemen honestly in my opinion. He knows guys like Morrow, Harrington, Maatta, Pouliot are all strong enough skaters that they are capable of getting back and defending these breaks by themselves (or at least more capably than Michalek is). It's why we see Letang as being probably our best defensive guy at this point, even though Orpik and and Michalek have acquitted themselves better throughout their careers. Martin I think is very capable of a bounceback year with health. If he stays, who knows. Even with a bounceback year he's not worth 5M, but we'll see what happens.

I really like Z in the right system. He's perfect for Phoenix. He's going to flourish again in Phoenix I think. But his fit isn't right here. That's why we always saw him as excelling on the PK but overall being average.

I don't like the trade from a value standpoint unless we end up with Parise, but it makes sense why it happened.

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06-23-2012, 12:14 AM
  #109
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I'm not liking where we're headed. Especially if we don't end up with one of Parise and or Suter on July 1st.

For a team who'se had **** luck in the postseason these last 3 years, we really seem...dare I say...even that much weaker now? Maybe I'm totally wrong though given how tired I am.

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06-23-2012, 12:14 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
If you're referring to his time in Phoenix, it's obviously clear why he didn't block as many shots. It's the system. Our system is not like the Rangers where it feeds into shots being blocked. Because of our heavy forechecking style, we leave ourselves open to quite a few more 3 on 2, 2 on 1, etc breakouts than the average team. This is why Shero is drafting great skating defensemen honestly in my opinion. He knows guys like Morrow, Harrington, Maatta, Pouliot are all strong enough skaters that they are capable of getting back and defending these breaks by themselves (or at least more capably than Michalek is). It's why we see Letang as being probably our best defensive guy at this point, even though Orpik and and Michalek have acquitted themselves better throughout their careers. Martin I think is very capable of a bounceback year with health. If he stays, who knows. Even with a bounceback year he's not worth 5M, but we'll see what happens.

I really like Z in the right system. He's perfect for Phoenix. He's going to flourish again in Phoenix I think. But his fit isn't right here. That's why we always saw him as excelling on the PK but overall being average.

I don't like the trade from a value standpoint unless we end up with Parise, but it makes sense why it happened.
Yes, this seems like a good post. Thank you for your input.

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06-23-2012, 12:18 AM
  #111
Uncle Jorgi
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Originally Posted by Illinest View Post
He did get pushed around, he did not block as many shots. I think maybe you weren't watching enough. He was bad this year.

But I did like his game quite a bit in the season prior. I liked Michalek until his game slipped.
It's like we're having two different conversations. Point i was making is that Z WAS NOT acquired to add to the physicality of our defense. I wasn't making any excuses for his stretches of poor play here. Another instance where i have no idea where you're coming from.

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06-23-2012, 12:19 AM
  #112
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This better be part of something bigger. Really is no excuse for the lack of assets back we got in this trade. At least it could have been a 2nd round pick and or a forward prospect.

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06-23-2012, 12:20 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by MetalheadPenguinsFan View Post
I'm not liking where we're headed. Especially if we don't end up with one of Parise and or Suter on July 1st.

For a team who'se had **** luck in the postseason these last 3 years, we really seem...dare I say...even that much weaker now? Maybe I'm totally wrong though given how tired I am.
Yes but it is June. Even if we don't get Parise or Suter there are still guys like Nash & Ryan out there & we have plenty of prospects to acquire them. It's a long off season so lets hold out judgement until it's over.

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06-23-2012, 12:21 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Zirakzigil View Post
This better be part of something bigger. Really is no excuse for the lack of assets back we got in this trade. At least it could have been a 2nd round pick and or a forward prospect.
Yeah man, like totes. I don't know why Shero didn't just trade Michalek for a 1st rounder??

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06-23-2012, 12:22 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Uncle Jorgi View Post
It's like we're having two different conversations. Point i was making is that Z WAS NOT acquired to add to the physicality of our defense. I wasn't making any excuses for his stretches of poor play here. Another instance where i have no idea where you're coming from.
He was added to a roster that had almost no physical players.
I think Shero is a pretty sharp guy and I give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't think he expected Michalek to be that much of a pansy. Clear nyet?

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06-23-2012, 12:22 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by MetalheadPenguinsFan View Post
I'm not liking where we're headed. Especially if we don't end up with one of Parise and or Suter on July 1st.

For a team who'se had **** luck in the postseason these last 3 years, we really seem...dare I say...even that much weaker now? Maybe I'm totally wrong though given how tired I am.
I agree that we are a weaker team now than we were before the draft started. But it's silly to get worried about it more than a week before free agency starts.

If the team is exactly the same a month from now, then i'll freak out along with all our resident chicken littles. I'd see the chance of that happening at roughly 0%, though.

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06-23-2012, 12:24 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by MetalheadPenguinsFan View Post
I'm not liking where we're headed. Especially if we don't end up with one of Parise and or Suter on July 1st.

For a team who'se had **** luck in the postseason these last 3 years, we really seem...dare I say...even that much weaker now? Maybe I'm totally wrong though given how tired I am.
No, you're right. We are a lot weaker now than we were yesterday.

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06-23-2012, 12:25 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Uncle Jorgi View Post
I agree that we are a weaker team now than we were before the draft started. But it's silly to get worried about it more than a week before free agency starts.

If the team is exactly the same a month from now, then i'll freak out along with all our resident chicken littles. I'd see the chance of that happening at roughly 0%, though.
I'm not Chicken Little-ing yet. Just kinda sad to see guys go for less than we thought and tired is all.

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06-23-2012, 12:27 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by MetalheadPenguinsFan View Post
I'm not Chicken Little-ing yet. Just kinda sad to see guys go for less than we thought and tired is all.
I'm all for eating crow if we can sign both players, but if we don't sign BOTH players, we are a worse team.

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06-23-2012, 12:30 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Zirakzigil View Post
This better be part of something bigger. Really is no excuse for the lack of assets back we got in this trade. At least it could have been a 2nd round pick and or a forward prospect.
You don't think Shero could spend the cap room better? I do and I am glad he is gone and I would of traded him for less and same goes for Martin. I have no problem letting Despres take one of those top 4 spots and I would not be surprised if someone like Dumoulin, Harrington, or Morrow plays lights out I. Camp and makes the team. Strait and Bortuzzo need to be traded unless we trade one of our lower defenseman to make room.

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06-23-2012, 12:32 AM
  #121
Uncle Jorgi
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Originally Posted by Illinest View Post
He was added to a roster that had almost no physical players.
I think Shero is a pretty sharp guy and I give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't think he expected Michalek to be that much of a pansy. Clear nyet?
He was added to a roster that had noticebly suffered from not having a reliable stay-at-home shot blocker type. He wasn't expected to add significantly to the team's physical presence. You can talk yourself in circles trying to make your original point make sense, but it's not happening. He's never been above the NHL average of what constitutes being physical in any aspect of the game that didn't involve being hit with a slapshot. Clear yet?

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06-23-2012, 12:32 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
You don't think Shero could spend the cap room better? I do and I am glad he is gone and I would of traded him for less and same goes for Martin. I have no problem letting Despres take one of those top 4 spots and I would not be surprised if someone like Dumoulin, Harrington, or Morrow plays lights out I. Camp and makes the team. Strait and Bortuzzo need to be traded unless we trade one of our lower defenseman to make room.
I'm going to be pretty pissed if Lovejoy is still on this team in October over ANY other defensive option we have.

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06-23-2012, 12:32 AM
  #123
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Michalek deal was pretty bad imo. 2 scrub prospects for the ECHL/AHL and a 3rd. Just surprised we couldnt get more. Great if it opens space to sign Parise but if we dont get him or Suter then Shero will look bad on this deal imo.

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06-23-2012, 12:34 AM
  #124
Uncle Jorgi
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Originally Posted by MetalheadPenguinsFan View Post
I'm not Chicken Little-ing yet. Just kinda sad to see guys go for less than we thought and tired is all.
FWIW, i wasnt referring to you in that description, was just saying i wouldn't be tempted to go that route just yet if i were you

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06-23-2012, 12:35 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
You don't think Shero could spend the cap room better? I do and I am glad he is gone and I would of traded him for less and same goes for Martin. I have no problem letting Despres take one of those top 4 spots and I would not be surprised if someone like Dumoulin, Harrington, or Morrow plays lights out I. Camp and makes the team. Strait and Bortuzzo need to be traded unless we trade one of our lower defenseman to make room.
Cap room on what? What if Parise signs a new contract with the Devils? I dont care to have Semin here at 6mil. So who do we bring in? Suter could resign as well. There is 1 great first line winger in UFA and a lot of teams that will have interest. Unless this is a move that needed to be made to bring in Nash or Ryan or Shero has a deal in place to get Parise/Suter or both this is just dumping a solid asset for no reason.

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