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Common theme of the draft is SIZE down the middle. What is the future of our C's?

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Old
05-12-2014, 05:49 PM
  #201
PsychoticHab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
We already have a 1st line C.
Not to mention that McCarron may become that "gigantic center" in the future.(Obviously less offensively talented though but perfect for 3rd/4th line if he continues to develop)

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05-12-2014, 05:52 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
If it was all about size, the big issues on the team WOULDN'T be Pacioretty and Vanek.

Anybody that has watched Pacioretty play these playoffs and blamed his center is lying to not only others but themselves. No doubt Desharnais is not the ideal center for your top scoring line, but when your 39 goal winger turns into a ghost at playoff time, it makes things pretty hard. I think Max has 1 even strength point in 9 playoff games.
Kinda stating the obvious.
SHOW UP FIRST is always a good place to start.
But for those out there who can't fathom that the rigors/fortunes of the SCP's will ultimately go to the team that can withstand and are built to survive the most grueling schedule in Pro Sports; And seriously contend that Size doesn't matter particularly over all Team Size. The Champlain Bridge is for sale.

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05-12-2014, 06:03 PM
  #203
SouthernHab
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DD bashing has been in vogue for quite some time now.

The Habs will win or lose with DD in the lineup against Boston. Isnt it interesting that the Habs would have really been screwed if they were relying on Galchenyuk right now. Cant be a factor if an injury is keeping him off the ice.

I hope DD proves a few people wrong tonight and the rest of the playoff series.

Regardless, win or lose, I am sure that we will get many many more DD bashing threads in the future.

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Old
05-12-2014, 06:40 PM
  #204
PsychoticHab
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
DD bashing has been in vogue for quite some time now.

The Habs will win or lose with DD in the lineup against Boston. Isnt it interesting that the Habs would have really been screwed if they were relying on Galchenyuk right now. Cant be a factor if an injury is keeping him off the ice.

I hope DD proves a few people wrong tonight and the rest of the playoff series.

Regardless, win or lose, I am sure that we will get many many more DD bashing threads in the future.
Sadly that is the nature of this board. We even had a bashing thread against Plek after just one bad game (the first one in longer than most could remember). Hell, Price tried to play through an injury last year and saw his play fall and at least half the board wanted to chase him out of town even if he had been in the Vezina talks just prior to that injury.

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05-12-2014, 06:41 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
DD bashing has been in vogue for quite some time now.

The Habs will win or lose with DD in the lineup against Boston. Isnt it interesting that the Habs would have really been screwed if they were relying on Galchenyuk right now. Cant be a factor if an injury is keeping him off the ice.

I hope DD proves a few people wrong tonight and the rest of the playoff series.

Regardless, win or lose, I am sure that we will get many many more DD bashing threads in the future.
DD has 5 points in 20 playoff games. Let that marinate for a while.

I'd put my life that galchenyuk would outproduce him in 20 games.

You and others built him up into something he isn't. At least own it.

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Old
05-12-2014, 06:42 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
but we want to WIN in the playoffs...

but seriously

i hope these playoffs have shown bergevin that you have to trade desharnais and how valuable to the team eller is

OR we ruin galchenyuk, blow it with eller, and waste plekanecs prime years as a hab

were just too god damn small up front, thats just the way it is, ..if he keeps desharnais, so be it, ..only 3 more years..hey its better than when it was 4...
Eller is valuable, but he still isn't a #1 center.

Right now Plekanec is the closest thing we have to a #1 center.

Boston isn't leading the series because their #1 center is big or highly productive so far, Krejci only has 1 point in the series.

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05-12-2014, 06:44 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by PsychoticHab View Post
Sadly that is the nature of this board. We even had a bashing thread against Plek after just one bad game (the first one in longer than most could remember). Hell, Price tried to play through an injury last year and saw his play fall and at least half the board wanted to chase him out of town even if he had been in the Vezina talks just prior to that injury.
The board is 50% bashing and 50% excuse making.

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Old
05-12-2014, 06:44 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Eller is valuable, but he still isn't a #1 center.

Right now Plekanec is the closest thing we have to a #1 center.

Boston isn't leading the series because their #1 center is big or highly productive so far, Krejci only has 1 point in the series.
its interresting you consider krejci as their number 1 center

also i never said eller should be number 1 center, ..i said desharnais should not be.

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05-12-2014, 06:45 PM
  #209
SirClintonPortis
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Strength on the puck is the actual attribute that matters, but without enough size(5' 11" at the very least, in general), strength on the puck is not going to be there.

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05-12-2014, 06:47 PM
  #210
hockeyfan2k11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Eller is valuable, but he still isn't a #1 center.

Right now Plekanec is the closest thing we have to a #1 center.

Boston isn't leading the series because their #1 center is big or highly productive so far, Krejci only has 1 point in the series.
Lol. Habs fans gotta be the only people around who act like size is irrelevant. The same people that think we can contend with a 5'6 center.

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05-12-2014, 06:47 PM
  #211
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
DD has 5 points in 20 playoff games. Let that marinate for a while.

I'd put my life that galchenyuk would outproduce him in 20 games.

You and others built him up into something he isn't. At least own it.
The problem is that Galchenyuk is 20, and still getting his feet wet in the NHL, he isn't dominating in a smaller role, giving him a bigger one with more responsibility is not a recipe for success.

If Desharnais fails and everybody ***** on him, well he's an NHL veteran and if he gets "ruined" it's not the same as "ruining" a 20 year old lottery pick with big uupside. Plus the way Pacioretty is playing and getting Chara's pair, is that really who you'd want Galchenyuk playing against if he wass healthy?

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05-12-2014, 06:48 PM
  #212
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
DD bashing has been in vogue for quite some time now.

The Habs will win or lose with DD in the lineup against Boston. Isnt it interesting that the Habs would have really been screwed if they were relying on Galchenyuk right now. Cant be a factor if an injury is keeping him off the ice.

I hope DD proves a few people wrong tonight and the rest of the playoff series.

Regardless, win or lose, I am sure that we will get many many more DD bashing threads in the future.
Does it have to be bashing though?

I just don't think he's good enough to warrant the role, icetime and linemates he's been given. I don't hate him, he's got some talent but yeah, this doesn't surprise me.

And I don't understand why MT feels the need to weld him to Max. Never tried Eller, never tried Galchenyuk... It was one line only. Well, here we are now...

And btw, I (like everyone else here) hopes he has an awesome game. I don't care who scores as long as we win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
The problem is that Galchenyuk is 20, and still getting his feet wet in the NHL, he isn't dominating in a smaller role, giving him a bigger one with more responsibility is not a recipe for success.

If Desharnais fails and everybody ***** on him, well he's an NHL veteran and if he gets "ruined" it's not the same as "ruining" a 20 year old lottery pick with big uupside. Plus the way Pacioretty is playing and getting Chara's pair, is that really who you'd want Galchenyuk playing against if he wass healthy?
DD never should've had that role to begin with...

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Old
05-12-2014, 06:51 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Eller is valuable, but he still isn't a #1 center.

Right now Plekanec is the closest thing we have to a #1 center.

Boston isn't leading the series because their #1 center is big or highly productive so far, Krejci only has 1 point in the series.
Let that one sink in for a few people. Eller (20.2% of 5vs5 TOI) and Plekanec (17.5%) listed as the top 2 Habs centres he has faced off against is all you need to know about who to thank for that... and Price, of course... and maybe a post or two... and some horrible shooting at times... but I digress, lol.

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Old
05-12-2014, 06:52 PM
  #214
Brainiac
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
He is a long way from 60 points.
He'll be there in two years.... same as two years ago, when people said he would be there now.

I wonder when it will stop? When Eller is 36?

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05-12-2014, 06:53 PM
  #215
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Lol. Habs fans gotta be the only people around who act like size is irrelevant. The same people that think we can contend with a 5'6 center.
I never said size wasn't relevant, but size alone wins you nothing.

If size was the be all then a guy like Boyle would be playing 23 minutes a game and making huge money in the NHL. For every Chara who is an effective big guy there are thousands who never make the NHL or play small roles.

Desharnais is the best option we have right now, if Pacioretty played with half the guts that he does he would have more tahn 1 ES point in the playoffs.

I think we can compete with the top 5 teams with DD as top center, in order to win a cup we'll have to have a better option. If that's Galchenyuk, that will be in 2-3 years, he still has a lot of growing/learning to do.

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05-12-2014, 06:54 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Does it have to be bashing though?

I just don't think he's good enough to warrant the role, icetime and linemates he's been given. I don't hate him, he's got some talent but yeah, this doesn't surprise me.

And I don't understand why MT feels the need to weld him to Max. Never tried Eller, never tried Galchenyuk... It was one line only. Well, here we are now...

And btw, I (like everyone else here) hopes he has an awesome game. I don't care who scores as long as we win.
Hit the nail on the head. It's not bashing when you're stating the obvious. DD is a good player has great vision and isn't bad defensively but you just can't compete in the playoffs with a small center on the first line. The stats are very telling and he gets owned in the playoffs.

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05-12-2014, 06:56 PM
  #217
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Galchenyuk Eller DLR McCarron would be a nice core if they all pan out. If Therrien stops benching Eller for every single mistake next year we'll see playoff Eller a lot more. Desharnais doesn't have a future here if we want to win the cup.

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05-12-2014, 06:57 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I never said size wasn't relevant, but size alone wins you nothing.
Who said anything about "size alone?"

Douglas Murray has size alone. Zedeno Chara has size AND talent. That's what we should be going after. There's nothing wrong with Giroux or MSL but you don't want a team of midgets.

And if your number one center is a midget, he'd better have the talent to back it up. DD is a mediocre talent with no size. And for some reason we HAD to have this guy as our number one... Its not like he's Claude Giroux.

Anyways, I've already talked about this at length. I don't want to bash DD esp on the night of the most important game of the year. I hope he does well and I hope we win. That is all.

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05-12-2014, 07:02 PM
  #219
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Where is the line where observation and empirical evidence ends and bashing begins? Dd is an at times exciting regular season player. He's not a third or fourth line player and he's manhandled as an offensive player getting the oppositions best checkers.

Is it bashing to say he doesn't have a place on this team? I don't think so.

This is the real problem for this team and it has been for a while.

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05-12-2014, 07:08 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I never said size wasn't relevant, but size alone wins you nothing.

If size was the be all then a guy like Boyle would be playing 23 minutes a game and making huge money in the NHL. For every Chara who is an effective big guy there are thousands who never make the NHL or play small roles.

Desharnais is the best option we have right now, if Pacioretty played with half the guts that he does he would have more tahn 1 ES point in the playoffs.

I think we can compete with the top 5 teams with DD as top center, in order to win a cup we'll have to have a better option. If that's Galchenyuk, that will be in 2-3 years, he still has a lot of growing/learning to do.
MS, it's difficult to believe you are seriously suggesting that opponents of the habs tiny roster strategy believe that size alone wins games, or that we should fill the roster with big guys who never made the NHL. Wherever did you get that idea?

It's also difficult to believe you are seriously suggesting that a 5'6" player (who actually never would have made the NHL were it not for the habs lol) is our "best option" for #1C? Or that Galchenyuk, arguably the top center from the 2012 draft, with 120 NHL games already, might be ready "in 2-3 years"? Come on guy.

But I hope dd leads the squad to victory tonight so we have one thing we can agree on.

Go DD!
Go Habs Go !!!

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05-12-2014, 07:13 PM
  #221
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Monctonscout is talking to air and arguing a red herring. We need big boys who can play the game. Not just big boys, and pretty much everyone knows that is what this thread is about. That's when talking about replacing DD, everyone but him seems to have an implicit understanding that we want "better", which means more skills, more strength, and/or more speed, etc.

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05-12-2014, 07:13 PM
  #222
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Desharnais really needs to be tried at wing, as soon as next camp -- the guy tends to be rather effective when going towards the center of the ice (not talking about cutting here) as opposed to going towards the boards. Preferably at right wing.

Because right now, he isn't exactly playing bad. He's just playing like a 3rd line center, except with the really annoying flaw of being mostly unable to recuperate the puck in the defensive zone when the other team's offense is already installed (he's actually pretty good when it comes to disrupting the play before said installation).

But, at that level, he won't do a damn thing if he plays like a 3rd AND has a LW whose head is firmly planted in the ass.

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05-12-2014, 07:13 PM
  #223
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Are any teams around the league in need of an offensive #2C and willing to give us a reasonable return on Desharnais?
Are there any teams in the league that would overpay for Plekanec?

If there's a yes to either of those questions, I'd be fine with moving either one of them.

I think it's fair to say that Eller has shown himself fully capable of shutting down top lines and is good for at least 30pts (potentially more with better line mates) and I'd be fine with playing him in a #2C role. However, I don't think it's a good idea to have Desharnais-Galchenyuk as our #1-#3, that's in no way defensively responsible.

If you can't move Desharnais for a reasonable return, I'd consider moving DD+Pacioretty for an elite winger or centre. If that's what it takes to fix the fundamental flaw in our offence, I'd let that sweet contract and big body go. Jamie Benn would be a dream.

We've got options.

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05-12-2014, 07:18 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
MS, it's difficult to believe you are seriously suggesting that opponents of the habs tiny roster strategy believe that size alone wins games, or that we should fill the roster with big guys who never made the NHL. Wherever did you get that idea?

It's also difficult to believe you are seriously suggesting that a 5'6" player (who actually never would have made the NHL were it not for the habs lol) is our "best option" for #1C? Or that Galchenyuk, arguably the top center from the 2012 draft, with 120 NHL games already, might be ready "in 2-3 years"? Come on guy.

But I hope dd leads the squad to victory tonight so we have one thing we can agree on.

Go DD!
Go Habs Go !!!
He would probably have made it -- DD should really have been drafted to begin with. He's more the poster boy whose draft status was totally screwed by DOB.

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05-12-2014, 07:31 PM
  #225
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I have no issue dealing Pleks for a good winger. Last game soured me on him. And he was my favorite player...

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