The Oilers picked JFJ with a 68th pick and he's a far better player thats long since been deemed to be expendable here. Instead we're picking a guy like Moroz who's value got entirely elevated on the basis of team, and not personal success. Moroz got elevated due to the OK's having some success. Has very little to do with the actual player involved. The Oilers, as per usual, have difficulty distinguishing player vs team success. If the OK's don't go deep Moroz doesn't even get a mention and everybody in the league are laughing at this pick. They still should. Its a joke pick.
I'll make this bet with anybody that Moroz won't even amount to JFJ NHL games played.
Everybody wants to believe the Lucic comparison. But we don't even have a JFJ here. Plus JFJ had infinitely better defensive instincts.
I'll take that bet any day.
JFJ had the lowest hockey IQ of any oiler player in the last decade. You will also remember that they drafted MAP after he had a great season playing for the worst team in the QMJHL that year, and they didnt draft Huberdeau last year after his team won the mem cup and he was the MVP, which totally kills your assertion that they draft player based on team success. Yakupov's team got bounced early in the playoffs and they still picked him even though they were in love with Murray whos team also got bounced early.
Moroz may have not been the flashyist pick but he was probably the the player who filled the greatest need within the organization.
Calgary drafted a kid at #21 who played high school hockey for a boarding school in Quebec .... over Teuvo Tervainen
And traded back while both Tervainen and Olli Maata were still on the board.
I didn't like drafting Moroz that early, but I firmly believe he would have been picked by another team during the second round. I wanted the Oilers to end up with one of Samuelsson or Moroz. So, I'm not upset.
So reports indicate some other teams wanted him, but it was probably a gag? Not likely.
Redline Report, I believe, said Moroz was trending upward and they should have ranked him higher. Bob McKenzie had him at 56 IIRC.
Forgive me, but I'd rather listen to the experts and also have faith in the scouts who are actually paid to evaluate these kids rather than someone who has had limited viewings of the player.
And traded back while both Tervainen and Olli Maata were still on the board.
I didn't like drafting Moroz that early, but I firmly believe he would have been picked by another team during the second round. I wanted the Oilers to end up with one of Samuelsson or Moroz. So, I'm not upset.
So reports indicate some other teams wanted him, but it was probably a gag? Not likely.
Redline Report, I believe, said Moroz was trending upward and they should have ranked him higher. Bob McKenzie had him at 56 IIRC.
Forgive me, but I'd rather listen to the experts and also have faith in the scouts who are actually paid to evaluate these kids rather than someone who has had limited viewings of the player.
Not too mention Girgensons or a young beast named Ceci....
Thought I'd never say it but I agree fully with you here and completely agreed with all your Yakupov posts comtray to the constant squabbles we had over last years draft. I think Stu and co. Had to be fairly well impressed with the kids passion in character to jump on him with this selection. Something likely shown in his pre-draft interviews. IMO qualities such as these are largely an indication on how much a player pushes themselves to pursue their full potential.
Seriously? I'd imagine all of Glenn Anderson, Paul Coffey, Mark Messier(and I knew Mark) and Grant Fuhr would've failed such interviews.
I care about how a player plays hockey. Not how they con somebody into thinking they have the most dedication and drive ever. Fact of the Matter is Moroz is an inconsequential 4th line scrub on a Junior Hockey club at the age of 18. If he had all that world class dedication how come we don't see a better player?
Improperly conducted interviews don't mean ****. Possibly the poorest selection criteria ever devised at least as commonly used.
Something else I forgot to mention but Grod touched on, is that Moroz really WANTED to be an Oiler. In fact, some have speculated that is how the Oilers were tipped off to the interest by other teams in Moroz. His people may have let them know that other teams were inquiring about him.
So having a player that actually is motivated to play for your team is a nice little extra.
Seriously? I'd imagine all of Glenn Anderson, Paul Coffey, Mark Messier(and I knew Mark) and Grant Fuhr would've failed such interviews.
I care about how a player plays hockey. Not how they con somebody into thinking they have the most dedication and drive ever. Fact of the Matter is Moroz is an inconsequential 4th line scrub on a Junior Hockey club at the age of 18. If he had all that world class dedication how come we don't see a better player?
Improperly conducted interviews don't mean ****. Possibly the poorest selection criteria ever devised at least as commonly used.
It's an element that helps establish a persons presence in character. Certainly someone in a case where they are not touted as much as the greats you mentioned. It's a variable not the sole or primary defining factor. Don't take my thoughts out of context in order to assist your extreme bias against this selection please. In addition to that, not all players develop at the same pace or gleem with all star qualities at the same age. So condemning a players career because of his role on a junior squad or over-zealous selection in your eyes is a bit short-sighted IMO. But that's just my opinion. Have you watched Moroz play live because I have and liked the rawness in energy and skill that I saw. His interviews displayed charisma and enthusiasm in my eyes as well. I'm sure every fourth line selection in junior that made it had cynics and critics prior to their rise too.
It's an element that helps establish a persons presence in character. Certainly someone in a case where they are not touted as much as the greats you mentioned. It's a variable not the sole or primary defining factor. Don't take my thoughts out of context in order to assist your extreme bias against this selection please.
So you think the Oilers are experts at interviewing and detecting character?
How so and with what expertise?
Other than pulling it out of their ass and guessing.
Improperly done interviewing is nothing more than about like or dislike. Thats it. A person not trained in interviewing, assessment, evaluation generally has no idea what they are doing and that they are essentially randomly selecting individuals based on mere comfort and preference. The way a person would select friends. Which has nothing to do with assessing ability on the ice.
I maintain that this Oilers org would HATE dealing with Glenn Anderson, Paul Coffey, a young Mark Messier, and Grant Fuhr. What gets confused these days is that blind deference to authority=character.
Individuals independent and bold enough to speak their mind and that possess such imagination would more evoke "character" imo. Although this is lost in todays thinking. We all know the Oilers definition is yes man more than anything else.
This is a club that couldn't even deal with Souray.
Individuals independent and bold enough to speak their mind and that possess such imagination would more evoke "character" imo. Although this is lost in todays thinking. We all know the Oilers definition is yes man more than anything else.
This is a club that couldn't even deal with Souray.
My liking of this pick has gone from a 3/10 to a 5.5/10 since the draft.
Still think we could have done better, but I've been hearing a lot of good things about this kid.
I agree that in the 2nd round you should be taking a homerun swing for the most part... but I think this guy has a good chance to be a great bottom 6 guy.
Attitude is HUGE in bottom 6ers.. and this guy seems to have the right attitude.
I thought that evoked character. Or lack of English comprehension
Serious though. Not sure how much I could knock any player here wanting to be somewhere else a couple of years ago during the Quinn reign. With Tambo as manager..
I maintain that this Oilers org would HATE dealing with Glenn Anderson, Paul Coffey, a young Mark Messier, and Grant Fuhr. What gets confused these days is that blind deference to authority=character.
This is a club that couldn't even deal with Souray.
Makes you appreciate how effective Sather was in managing all those egos and carving up the icetime, the glory and the dollars for as long as he did.
And for many of those years he was doing both jobs as well. Tamby can't carry his jock.
Its actually kind of scary to think what Tamby will do if he's still GM in a few years when all these kids start getting demanding.
Have they said yet how long he was renewed for?
Makes you appreciate how effective Sather was in managing all those egos and carving up the icetime, the glory and the dollars for as long as he did.
And for many of those years he was doing both jobs as well. Tamby can't carry his jock.
Its actually kind of scary to think what Tamby will do if he's still GM in a few years when all these kids start getting demanding. Have they said yet how long he was renewed for?
He'll be there until MacT tells Lowe he's tired of looking at Tambo and wants his job.
Someone told me that he was kind of like Kyle Clifford in LA except a better skater. That IMO is a solid pick if it becomes true. A kid that's tough, hits hard, and can put some points on the board. If he ends up a top 6 guy even better.
__________________ Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
I thought that evoked character. Or lack of English comprehension
Serious though. Not sure how much I could knock any player here wanting to be somewhere else a couple of years ago during the Quinn reign. With Tambo as manager..
I thought that evoked character. Or lack of English comprehension
Serious though. Not sure how much I could knock any player here wanting to be somewhere else a couple of years ago during the Quinn reign. With Tambo as manager..
This whole org absolutely hit joke bottom.
Wow, you are really angry about this pick. To get from discussing Moroz to the point you're at here, just wow.
Many experts like Moroz and believe he has potential, but it seems like your mind is made up without even being willing to give the kid a chance.
Wow, you are really angry about this pick. To get from discussing Moroz to the point you're at here, just wow.
Many experts like Moroz and believe he has potential, but it seems like your mind is made up without even being willing to give the kid a chance.
Amazing thinking that a fan of a 30, 30, 29 club thinks that the org doesn't know w t f its doing going a 100 picks off the board to pick Moroz at 32.
The org has no credibility in which to go off the charts like that. Zero. I've stated my impression that the Oil got seduced by the OK's run and are looking at that result instead who they actually picked. Samuellson can be an impact player. With Moroz I wouldn't expect anything. We basically threw this second pick away for an inconsequential plug that wasn't even noticeable on a Junior club. May as well have put the pick in trade.
Samuelsson got better and better as the season and playoffs wore on and was easily the most dangerous player we had in the Memorial Cup. Just dripping offensive skill and instinct. Right on top of his game at the biggest time which impressed the hell out of me. Exuded skill.
Moroz doesn't strike me as somebody that would play top six in the NHL. Thats dreaming big. I don't see Lucic here and I don't see Chris Neil. I don't see NHL here. Not unless its say 4th line role player. JFJ I would say is a more talented player. Not saying much.
Why are you comparing Samuelsson and Moroz? The Oilers never had a chance to get Samuelsson so it's not like they passed up on him for Moroz.
I think that most if not all of us would agree that Samuelsson has more upside than Moroz, i'm really disappointed that we weren't able to get Samuelsson but Moroz isn't complete trash like you're indicating he is. He scored 16 goals in a 4th line role in his 1st season in junior and 8 pts in the playoffs, not too shabby plus he's physical (he knocked Rattie into oblivion) and can fight.
Hopefully, he plays a bigger role next season so we can see if he's capable of more.
Also, JFJ was a really talented player but his chronic back issues sunk his career so saying JFJ is more talented isn't exactly a big insult to Moroz.
Amazing thinking that a fan of a 30, 30, 29 club thinks that the org doesn't know w t f its doing going a 100 picks off the board to pick Moroz at 32.
The org has no credibility in which to go off the charts like that. Zero. I've stated my impression that the Oil got seduced by the OK's run and are looking at that result instead who they actually picked. Samuellson can be an impact player. With Moroz I wouldn't expect anything. We basically threw this second pick away for an inconsequential plug that wasn't even noticeable on a Junior club. May as well have put the pick in trade.
At some point you will have let the past rest. There is an argument to be made that some of the Oilers staff may have been infatuated with the OK. But with this pick one would have to assume that the scouts did their due diligence, seeing as how they had the evening to hash it out. Moroz is better than you give him credit for (an inconsequential plug...LOL) and could turn into what the Oil is looking for.
Amazing thinking that a fan of a 30, 30, 29 club thinks that the org doesn't know w t f its doing going a 100 picks off the board to pick Moroz at 32.
The org has no credibility in which to go off the charts like that. Zero. I've stated my impression that the Oil got seduced by the OK's run and are looking at that result instead who they actually picked. Samuellson can be an impact player. With Moroz I wouldn't expect anything. We basically threw this second pick away for an inconsequential plug that wasn't even noticeable on a Junior club. May as well have put the pick in trade.
Thats funny seems to me if that were the case (being seduced) they would have drafted some of the other draft elegible kings. You don't like the pick, fine. But the fact that you are using a thread about an 18 year old kid who could become anything (from a lucic all the way to bust) to bash the oil is ridiculous. If our scouts think this player will be more useful then any that were on the board then why wouldn't they take him. If this guy even just becomes a useful 3rd liner he will be more valuable then anyone at that range (unless they way overshoot their potential and become stars) because of the tools he brings and how everyone wants guys like that on their team.
If you just want to b**** about the oil go make a thread and say "why I hate this team" other wise keep this thread about what you think this guy will become and not why you hate the team.
Why are you comparing Samuelsson and Moroz? The Oilers never had a chance to get Samuelsson so it's not like they passed up on him for Moroz.
I think that most if not all of us would agree that Samuelsson has more upside than Moroz, i'm really disappointed that we weren't able to get Samuelsson but Moroz isn't complete trash like you're indicating he is. He scored 16 goals in a 4th line role in his 1st season in junior and 8 pts in the playoffs, not too shabby plus he's physical (he knocked Rattie into oblivion) and can fight.
Hopefully, he plays a bigger role next season so we can see if he's capable of more.
Also, JFJ was a really talented player but his chronic back issues sunk his career so saying JFJ is more talented isn't exactly a big insult to Moroz.
Its widely thought that the Oil wanted to get on board with picking some Oil King, had quite a few of interest, mostly out of reach, but that they were hoping all along to get Samuelsson. That they instead picked Moroz to get a token Oil King. Feels like that to me too. I think part of the reason I'm so upset with this is getting this junk instead of Samuellson. Just a few picks off. Too bad we didn't swing a deal to trade up.
I feel like I got the trippy redhead instead of the blonde. meh meh, oh well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedi
At some point you will have let the past rest. There is an argument to be made that some of the Oilers staff may have been infatuated with the OK. But with this pick one would have to assume that the scouts did their due diligence, seeing as how they had the evening to hash it out. Moroz is better than you give him credit for (an inconsequential plug...LOL) and could turn into what the Oil is looking for.
Well its hard to let the past rest when the management responsible for it is still all present at the wheel. As such it isn't the past. This club when last seen was pathetic. Its not like they've turned a corner although one would think with all those first picks it might eventually occur..
Thats funny seems to me if that were the case (being seduced) they would have drafted some of the other draft elegible kings. You don't like the pick, fine. But the fact that you are using a thread about an 18 year old kid who could become anything (from a lucic all the way to bust) to bash the oil is ridiculous. If our scouts think this player will be more useful then any that were on the board then why wouldn't they take him. If this guy even just becomes a useful 3rd liner he will be more valuable then anyone at that range (unless they way overshoot their potential and become stars) because of the tools he brings and how everyone wants guys like that on their team.
If you just want to b**** about the oil go make a thread and say "why I hate this team" other wise keep this thread about what you think this guy will become and not why you hate the team.
I think he'll be a bust. I've stated that.
Whoopee ****. At the draft the Oil managed to draft Yakupov with the first pick. I was initially delerious that they managed a way to avoid ****ing up on the way to the alter. Until the second round and this unlikely pick.
Its widely thought that the Oil wanted to get on board with picking some Oil King, had quite a few of interest, mostly out of reach, but that they were hoping all along to get Samuelsson. That they instead picked Moroz to get a token Oil King. Feels like that to me too. I think part of the reason I'm so upset with this is getting this junk instead of Samuellson. Just a few picks off. Too bad we didn't swing a deal to trade up.
It does feel like they were intent on targeting an Oil King at 32 and that kind of thinking by Stu drives me nuts as well but Moroz isn't junk. He was a reach at 32 but he's not junk.
I'm a big Samuelsson fan and it was pissing me off that he such a good second half of the playoffs because i knew that would take him out of our reach but before that playoff run, he wasn't really that much better than Moroz throughout the year and was placed in a scoring role as opposed to Moroz who was in a checking role so i wouldn't be so quick to anoint Samuelsson and trash Moroz.
Whoopee ****. At the draft the Oil managed to draft Yakupov with the first pick. I was initially delerious that they managed a way to avoid ****ing up on the way to the alter. Until the second round and this unlikely pick.
"To bash the Oil is ridiculous?" lol
Taking things out of context is an art form for you. I said its ridiculous to use a thread about an 18 year old kid to bash the oil. Not only that the fact that you have called him junk and a plug just makes me laugh.
Even the teams with the best track records in the 2nd round get less then 1 player every two drafts from that round. And yet you feel that because the oil didn't follow who you felt they should draft that it is acceptable for you to trash a young man who has just started on the road to the nhl is also laughable.
It does feel like they were intent on targeting an Oil King at 32 and that kind of thinking by Stu drives me nuts as well but Moroz isn't junk. He was a reach at 32 but he's not junk.
I'm a big Samuelsson fan and it was pissing me off that he such a good second half of the playoffs because i knew that would take him out of our reach but before that playoff run, he wasn't really that much better than Moroz throughout the year and was placed in a scoring role as opposed to Moroz who was in a checking role so i wouldn't be so quick to anoint Samuelsson and trash Moroz.
Samuellsons production throughout the year was much more prolific and he definitely impressed me in the last 2 rounds of playoffs and memorial cup. Best Oil King forward imo in that juncture. Also that hes very new to NA and so more likely that some acclimitizing was required. Once he hit gear nothing was stopping him. The games I watched he was the prize on every shift.
I can't really tell you any play I saw Moroz create. Totally inconsequential. As you know I could care less about players that are simply here for the dance card. I want guys that can play the game. Not somebody way worse than Eager.
