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2012 Draft - 2nd Pick: Mitch Moroz

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Old
06-26-2012, 10:53 PM
  #351
Oylerz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Amazing thinking that a fan of a 30, 30, 29 club thinks that the org doesn't know w t f its doing going a 100 picks off the board to pick Moroz at 32.

The org has no credibility in which to go off the charts like that. Zero. I've stated my impression that the Oil got seduced by the OK's run and are looking at that result instead who they actually picked. Samuellson can be an impact player. With Moroz I wouldn't expect anything. We basically threw this second pick away for an inconsequential plug that wasn't even noticeable on a Junior club. May as well have put the pick in trade.
I've been lurking here for awhile and I'm not going to say much other than to point out that where they finished the last 3 years really has nothing to do with how 'credible' or successful the drafting has been over that span. You can get bent out of shape all you want, but the scouts aren't running the team. Stu has credibility because of the progress of the picks he has made, and the number of talented players he has drafted. I think Stu deserves a little slack on this one for now. If, in 3 or 4 years a player you would have picked now (go ahead and name 5 now for future reference) is further along then you have a right to start questioning Stu's credibility, but don't tie that back to where the team finished the last 3 years.


Last edited by Oylerz: 06-26-2012 at 11:47 PM.
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Old
06-26-2012, 10:59 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
Dude, I'm pretty sure in 10 years I won't care.

In 10 years I'll just be happy if I still have my own teeth.
We'll all be happier if Digger12 still has his teeth a decade from now. (Please keep us posted as to the state of your choppers, Digger12--Floss daily and take care of your gums, and they'll take care of you!)

The Oilers have done a admirable job with devoting more resources to player development, which I think helps to make the case stronger for drafting Moroz. Supporting his development, while he is playing locally is much easier, and he does have a lot of positive upside, despite what some posters are saying. I'd say if Moroz develops properly, he'll be an important asset to the organization, as he has a unique skill set, unparalleled in the system.

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06-26-2012, 11:18 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Well, in the dozen games I watched, and mostly the Portland Series and Memorial cup I never saw him make a play of any kind. Totally inconsequential player that was hard to even notice and that contributed nothing. This is what he looked like against better opponents. An absolute non factor. I was wondering why he was even on the club. Looked like fill.

We spend a 32 pick on a WCHL 4th liner. Thats incomprehensible. I see ECHL potential here. Maybe a stint in the AHL. A cup of coffee in the bigs.

If somebody said the Oilers were going to take Moroz as their 2nd pick they would've been laughed off this board. Flamed mercilessly. Soon as the Oil make the pick its as if its been justified and vindicated. This is a horrible pick at this position.
That the Oilers did this doesn't surprise me that much. Kind of accustomed to incompetence from the org.
Thirty-three years ago the Oilers once picked a Junior B player in the second round (48th overall), Replacement. You'll know who I'm talking about, as he was apparently a friend of yours. They saw something in that kid, when there were plenty of other kids playing junior A, that they could have selected. I'm sure Moroz could put up fairly decent numbers in Junior B as well. Let's let the kid develop before we write him off.

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06-26-2012, 11:39 PM
  #354
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Those picked at #32 while the Oilers have been in the league.

Ty Rattie, Jared Knight, Landon Ferraro, Vyacheslav Voynov, Brett MacLean, Carl Sneep, Tyler Plante, Dave Bolland, Ryan Stone, Janos Vas, Derek Roy, Tomas Kurka, Michael Ryan, Artem Chubarov, Evan Lindsay, Chris Hajt, Marc Chouinard, Mike Watt, Jay Pandolfo, Jim Carey, Jamie Pushor, Vesa Viitakoski, Bob Boughner, Barry Richter, Gordon Kruppke, Marc Laforge, Eric Weinrich, Tony Hrkac, Yves Heroux, Kent Carlson, Lars Eriksson, Kevin LaVallee, Lindy Ruff

Not too many jewels, by nature my expectations are set to not see this pick or any other choice as a jewel, though some will work out.

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06-26-2012, 11:49 PM
  #355
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I think one person on the board recognized I was being facetious and overstating things even though I STATED I was doing just that.

I don't like the pick, we know that. The rest was just some song and dance. Getting the ya ya's out after another long, arduous, season.

When I go gong show you think more people here would pick up on it by now. Its like a Tonight Show skit.

cheers.

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06-26-2012, 11:56 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Oylerz View Post
I've been lurking here for awhile and I'm not going to say much other than to point out that where they finished the last 3 years really has nothing to do with how 'credible' or successful the drafting has been over that span. You can get bent out of shape all you want, but the scouts aren't running the team. Stu has credibility because of the progress of the picks he has made, and the number of talented players he has drafted. I think Stu deserves a little slack on this one for now. If, in 3 or 4 years a player you would have picked now (go ahead and name 5 now for future reference) is further along then you have a right to start questioning Stu's credibility, but don't tie that back to where the team finished the last 3 years.
Actually, and I'm being serious with this, I'm not convinced that the drafting is being top of the charts. Its better than it was but thats damning with faint praise. Other than Eberle I don't know that theres anything proven yet. Paajarvi for instance is looking questionable at the moment.

We'll see, but I think its fair to say we need more time to prove that things have improved significantly. I give zero credit btw for the org being able to pick the top picks. Anybodies cat could do that.

Slack isn't yet earned. Although I'd entertain others ideas and citing why it should be. Name names by all means. Which were the great picks? Klefbom.

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06-28-2012, 03:52 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I think one person on the board recognized I was being facetious and overstating things even though I STATED I was doing just that.

I don't like the pick, we know that. The rest was just some song and dance. Getting the ya ya's out after another long, arduous, season.

When I go gong show you think more people here would pick up on it by now. Its like a Tonight Show skit.

cheers.
If Charlie Sheen ever needs a replacement I'm sure he'll call you.....

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06-28-2012, 07:22 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Actually, and I'm being serious with this, I'm not convinced that the drafting is being top of the charts. Its better than it was but thats damning with faint praise. Other than Eberle I don't know that theres anything proven yet. Paajarvi for instance is looking questionable at the moment.

We'll see, but I think its fair to say we need more time to prove that things have improved significantly. I give zero credit btw for the org being able to pick the top picks. Anybodies cat could do that.

Slack isn't yet earned. Although I'd entertain others ideas and citing why it should be. Name names by all means. Which were the great picks? Klefbom.
Now this is a post I can agree with.

I cringe a little when I hear about how great Stu MacGregor is at the draft. What has he accomplished so far? Eberle is, obviously, a five-star top notch pick. And not to taking anything away from the scouting staff but after what? 20+ years of mostly first-round busts, you almost wonder if that's the case of the blind squirrel there.

Other than that? Hamilton, Pitlick and Paajarvi aren't NHLers yet. Neither is Marincin or Klefbom. Lander? Not on 29 other teams.

I think Oiler fans would do well to remember the 1999 draft as a cautionary tale when it comes to gauging draft success based on prospect rankings instead of NHL performance. Here's who we drafted that year and their rankings a year or two after that draft:

Jani Rita- Minor-pro prospect of the year.
Alexei Semenov- CHL defenseman of the year. Top defensive prospect. Next Chara.
Tony Salmelainen- Fastest player in pro hockey! Another Marchant.
Mike Comrie- Paul Kariya. Franchise player/Superstar/etc

In reality? Bust, bust, bust, journeyman.

Before I'm prepared to annoit MacGregor the second-coming, what I'd really like to see is a Patrice Bergeron/Milan Lucic/Shea Weber type of pick: a second or third-rounder that, within a year or two of being drafted, is a star in the NHL and has people asking why he didn't go in the first round.

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06-28-2012, 07:56 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Reynard View Post
Now this is a post I can agree with.

I cringe a little when I hear about how great Stu MacGregor is at the draft. What has he accomplished so far? Eberle is, obviously, a five-star top notch pick. And not to taking anything away from the scouting staff but after what? 20+ years of mostly first-round busts, you almost wonder if that's the case of the blind squirrel there.

Other than that? Hamilton, Pitlick and Paajarvi aren't NHLers yet. Neither is Marincin or Klefbom. Lander? Not on 29 other teams.

I think Oiler fans would do well to remember the 1999 draft as a cautionary tale when it comes to gauging draft success based on prospect rankings instead of NHL performance. Here's who we drafted that year and their rankings a year or two after that draft:

Jani Rita- Minor-pro prospect of the year.
Alexei Semenov- CHL defenseman of the year. Top defensive prospect. Next Chara.
Tony Salmelainen- Fastest player in pro hockey! Another Marchant.
Mike Comrie- Paul Kariya. Franchise player/Superstar/etc

In reality? Bust, bust, bust, journeyman.

Before I'm prepared to annoit MacGregor the second-coming, what I'd really like to see is a Patrice Bergeron/Milan Lucic/Shea Weber type of pick: a second or third-rounder that, within a year or two of being drafted, is a star in the NHL and has people asking why he didn't go in the first round.
I think this is a good post.

However, I think balance dictates that we note so far there are a lot of players who - while not NHLers yet - have made splashes and would have improved their draft position if we had a redraft.

But I agree that we need to see some more NHL results before we can say the Oilers drafting these days is "great." It's just that right now it does look pretty damned good.

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06-28-2012, 08:16 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by JonQuixote View Post
I think this is a good post.

However, I think balance dictates that we note so far there are a lot of players who - while not NHLers yet - have made splashes and would have improved their draft position if we had a redraft.

But I agree that we need to see some more NHL results before we can say the Oilers drafting these days is "great." It's just that right now it does look pretty damned good.
Agreed. I'm certainly optimistic about the group we have coming, but I don't agree with the idea that the scouting staff should be immune to criticism just yet.

And this is coming from someone who likes the Moroz pick.

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06-29-2012, 11:09 PM
  #361
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Moroz's Next Ones prospect profile:
http://thehockeywriters.com/mitch-mo...spect-profile/

From The Next Ones Draft Guide:
http://thehockeywriters.com/2012-nhl...the-next-ones/

Also check out:
Top 150 Final Rankings:
http://thehockeywriters.com/2012-nhl...inal-rankings/

Top 100 Fantasy-based Rankings:
http://thehockeywriters.com/2012-nhl...ased-rankings/

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10-14-2012, 06:42 AM
  #362
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Bump...

Too early to call him a reach at 32?

Point total: 4 assists
Games Played: 9

Gross average of 36 points over the season.

Henrik Samuelsson (drafted 27)

Point total: 11 (5 goals, 6 assists)
Games Played: 9

Man I wish we had moved up. A true power forward, nasty, willing to take a suspension and puts up the points.

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10-14-2012, 07:11 AM
  #363
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Samuelsson might never have the skating to be an NHL player.

The Moroz pick might not look the greatest, but adding more assets to take Samuelsson wouldn't look good either.

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10-14-2012, 07:48 AM
  #364
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Jujhar Khaira was likely a worse pick. Tim Bozon and Adam Pelech went right after. Either or would have likely been a better choice.

The Oilers went looking for size and toughness last draft.

Moroz is tough. Much tougher than Samuelsson, who if he doesnt get markedly faster, will never set foot in the nhl.

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10-14-2012, 08:10 AM
  #365
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Fair enough- I have not seen Samuelsson play in-person or otherwise. If people view his foot speed as a stumbling block then remove him from the equation.

My major concern is that Moroz has been selected (and endorsed) by the Oilers organization with a high selection. Arguably a selection that was higher than the consensus would have predicted. His response to the selection has been under-whelming and I find that concerning.

Is it too early to sound the panic button? To remove Magnificent from Stu's nickname?

Almost certainly yes.

But stilll....concerning.

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10-14-2012, 08:40 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Nail and Nuge View Post
Fair enough- I have not seen Samuelsson play in-person or otherwise. If people view his foot speed as a stumbling block then remove him from the equation.

My major concern is that Moroz has been selected (and endorsed) by the Oilers organization with a high selection. Arguably a selection that was higher than the consensus would have predicted. His response to the selection has been under-whelming and I find that concerning.

Is it too early to sound the panic button? To remove Magnificent from Stu's nickname?

Almost certainly yes.

But stilll....concerning.
It is concerning, and questionable, but Moroz was not drafted for his offense, so when people look at his stats and complain that he isnt producing or isnt a ppg player, that really isnt fair.

I think the Oilers really wanted Samuelsson with the pick, as did most of us, but it just didnt work out for us. Im very surprised Moroz went that high and I didnt like the pick. I like the player but not the pick if that makes any sense.

MacGregor's cache will likely take a hit in the next few years, especially if Paajarvi doesnt pan out. He/we need some of the picks outside the first overall's to turn out. The Musil pick looks solid, the Pitlick pick looks decent, Marincin, Gernat etc. You cant win em all. Most of the players you draft will end up being busts/failures. Its just the nature of the business.

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10-14-2012, 09:10 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
It is concerning, and questionable, but Moroz was not drafted for his offense, so when people look at his stats and complain that he isnt producing or isnt a ppg player, that really isnt fair.

I think the Oilers really wanted Samuelsson with the pick, as did most of us, but it just didnt work out for us. Im very surprised Moroz went that high and I didnt like the pick. I like the player but not the pick if that makes any sense.

MacGregor's cache will likely take a hit in the next few years, especially if Paajarvi doesnt pan out. He/we need some of the picks outside the first overall's to turn out. The Musil pick looks solid, the Pitlick pick looks decent, Marincin, Gernat etc. You cant win em all. Most of the players you draft will end up being busts/failures. Its just the nature of the business.
Yeah - it's a least encouraging that a lot of the guys he picked, especially late, have gone on to outproduce their draft year numbers by a ton, or look amazing in a new league (Rieder, Roy, Bunz, Marincin, Gernat) - but I always thought he (Stu) was put up on a pedestal a little too fast. Until some of these non 1st overall guys turn out, he really hasn't done anything yet. I will admit a lot of them look promising, but at this point it's all it is - promise.

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10-14-2012, 10:52 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
It is concerning, and questionable, but Moroz was not drafted for his offense, so when people look at his stats and complain that he isnt producing or isnt a ppg player, that really isnt fair.
But a lot of the justification from the Oilers' mouths about the Moroz pick was that he was playing on the 4th line last year. So his low points totals then were a result of his lack of icetime...they basically implied that this year, more ice time, more points. So I think it's a very fair question to ask, where are the points?

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10-14-2012, 11:41 AM
  #369
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I don't care if this guy can score goals. I want him to become a player that makes teams regret hitting our star players. We have RNH, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Gagner, Hemsky, Schultz, Petry... I'm not worried about where our goals are coming from for a long time...

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10-14-2012, 12:01 PM
  #370
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But a lot of the justification from the Oilers' mouths about the Moroz pick was that he was playing on the 4th line last year. So his low points totals then were a result of his lack of icetime...they basically implied that this year, more ice time, more points. So I think it's a very fair question to ask, where are the points?
I dont recall them saying anything like that. What I recall them saying is that he will probably get a good look in the top six this year.

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10-14-2012, 12:34 PM
  #371
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People suggesting the team has no credibility probably have never spent time in a junior rink or chatted with scouts at all.

I have and I know what the scouts thought of Moroz all season. He wasn't going to be around late no matter what people think. Teams were in love with the guy for good reason. He was a fast rising player in a weak weak draft. I can't remember a draft that had as many 19 year olds go in the early rounds. That tells you something.

Yes he is having a slow start but the guy is never going to be a ppg player. He just needs to settle down and do his thing and it will come. People are going to be glad in a few years to have a guy like this when you head in to Calgary or Vancouver with the light brigade that is our forward crew

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10-14-2012, 12:50 PM
  #372
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I don't care if this guy can score goals. I want him to become a player that makes teams regret hitting our star players. We have RNH, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Gagner, Hemsky, Schultz, Petry... I'm not worried about where our goals are coming from for a long time...
Yeah but you don't draft a guy at 32 to be a plug that can drop the mits at times, you can get guys like that in the 4th round and lower or off the NHL scrap heap.
Moroz scored 16 goals last season with 4th line duty so i'm sure that they drafted him with the thought that he can be a tough guy who can chip in some offense and be a 2nd line-3rd line tweener eventually at the NHL level.
If they drafted him to be a 4th line pugilist then they are dumb as rocks.
There's no doubt that he needs to pick it up but it's only 9 games so there's no need to panic about it being a wasted pick.

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10-14-2012, 01:11 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Jujhar Khaira was likely a worse pick. Tim Bozon and Adam Pelech went right after. Either or would have likely been a better choice.

The Oilers went looking for size and toughness last draft.

Moroz is tough. Much tougher than Samuelsson, who if he doesnt get markedly faster, will never set foot in the nhl.
Huh, what makes you say Khaira was a worse pick right now. He's played 2 college games, hard to make a statement like that when you've likely not watched very much BCHL either. Or OHL for that matter in saying Pelech is a "better choice."

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10-14-2012, 01:25 PM
  #374
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Samuelsson might never have the skating to be an NHL player.

The Moroz pick might not look the greatest, but adding more assets to take Samuelsson wouldn't look good either.
You're kidding me...right?

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10-14-2012, 01:26 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by Nail and Nuge View Post
Fair enough- I have not seen Samuelsson play in-person or otherwise. If people view his foot speed as a stumbling block then remove him from the equation.
I have. They're wrong.

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