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2012 Draft - 2nd Pick: Mitch Moroz

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Old
10-14-2012, 05:32 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by jebs View Post
If he is suspended for a year hes going to the WHL.
Is this confirmed yet? I know the general concensus is that he'll join the Rockets but I heard they were appealing the suspension. And that the NCAA were doing shady things (surprise) like not releasing which rules he exactly broke. Merrill sat out 12 games of the season last year after his suspension, so it assume it's possible that Kerdiles could stick it out if they reduce it.


I agree Skm, the NCAA is getting ridiculous. But really, his agents should be more than well aware with the rules and be concious of this stuff. It worries be a bit since his 'advisor' are from Pulver Sports which includes Yakupov.

Did you hear about the NCAA monitoring bagel toppings?

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10-14-2012, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by speeds View Post
At least 30 players, likely more, but the remaining players available from my top 30 list were, in order:

Aberg
Finn
Collberg
Bozon
Bystrom
Kerdiles
Thrower
Severson

I would still prefer any of those 8 ahead of Moroz, but that doesn't mean I'm completely writing Moroz off, or that I think all 8 of those guys are locks, or anything. It could well turn out to be the case that Moroz is a better player than a number of those guys, I'm just saying I would have preferred them at the time of the draft ahead of Moroz.
Thrower has 3pts in 8gms is -1 and has been a healthy scratch in two games.

Kerdiles has been suspended for a year and doesnt have anywhere to play atm.

Severson has the worst +/- on his team.

The other players dont fit the criteria for what the Oilers were looking for. ie forwards with size, grit, toughness.

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10-14-2012, 06:25 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Thrower has 3pts in 8gms is -1 and has been a healthy scratch in two games.

Kerdiles has been suspended for a year and doesnt have anywhere to play atm.

Severson has the worst +/- on his team.
I never said all the players I had higher were doing better, I just posted the list of players I had rated higher at the time of the draft.

In terms of stats this year, it's still early and like I noted, Moroz not having a great start doesn't mean he'll definitely be a bust or anything.

FWIW, all 3 of those guys I still prefer to Moroz, and as I hinted at in my first post by no means do I think all 8 will, definitely, turn out better than Moroz, I'd be surprised if they did - that's the nature of the draft.



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The other players dont fit the criteria for what the Oilers were looking for. ie forwards with size, grit, toughness.
That may be, personally I reject the premise of drafting for need.

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10-14-2012, 06:34 PM
  #404
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No they arent.

If you think his skating is nhl level or even close to it you dont know what you are talking about.

Ever watched Dustin Penner attempt a basic skating drill? It looks like 3 octopuses falling out of a tree. He seems to be doing okay.

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10-14-2012, 06:36 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The other players dont fit the criteria for what the Oilers were looking for. ie forwards with size, grit, toughness.
And that's the crux of it. The thought process behind drafting Moroz is what is wrong. Drafting a real hockey player and then trading him for a need is a better strategy than looking for unicorns.

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10-14-2012, 08:11 PM
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Ever watched Dustin Penner attempt a basic skating drill? It looks like 3 octopuses falling out of a tree. He seems to be doing okay.
Samuelsson is slow at the junior level. Other than that he is a pretty compelling player, but if he can barely skate with juniors, its only going to be worse at the AHL and especially in the NHL.

He cant break away from hardly anyone and he gets caught from behind a lot. If he can improve his speed/quickness he will be fine. If not its going to be a big problem.

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10-14-2012, 09:51 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
And that's the crux of it. The thought process behind drafting Moroz is what is wrong. Drafting a real hockey player and then trading him for a need is a better strategy than looking for unicorns.
Yes, finally someone said what I meant. I'd rather go with more skill on early picks and take a chance on grit with less skills later on.

I remember what happened so many times when the Oilers went against consensus.

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10-14-2012, 09:54 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Samuelsson is slow at the junior level. Other than that he is a pretty compelling player, but if he can barely skate with juniors, its only going to be worse at the AHL and especially in the NHL.

He cant break away from hardly anyone and he gets caught from behind a lot. If he can improve his speed/quickness he will be fine. If not its going to be a big problem.
Samuelsson has pretty good hands for a big guy and uses good positioning to create chances. I like Moroz too but Samuelsson is the superior player and at the end of the year the stats will say as much.

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10-14-2012, 10:30 PM
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Samuelsson has pretty good hands for a big guy and uses good positioning to create chances. I like Moroz too but Samuelsson is the superior player and at the end of the year the stats will say as much.
I agree, but we didnt have an option to pick between the two. Was it possible to move up? I dont know. What would the cost have been to do so?

Without knowing what the answers to those questions its hard to get on management for not taking Samuelsson. Should we have taken other players that were available to us?

That should probably be the question.

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10-14-2012, 10:47 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Without knowing what the answers to those questions its hard to get on management for not taking Samuelsson. Should we have taken other players that were available to us?
I have nothing against Moroz, and he probably would have been taken in the 2nd if you believe all the stories of his playoff-run etc, but this question hurts the brain if you look at the 2nd round.

...Collberg, Finn, Kerdiles, Bystrom, Frk, Thrower, Pokka, Di Giuseppe, Sieloff, Bussieres, Blujus, McCabe, Sutter, Hart...etc.

Some of those guys are just as much "hype" as Moroz...but the skill-sets of those first 8 guys...certainly "sound" much better....when reading reports etc.

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10-14-2012, 11:02 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
I have nothing against Moroz, and he probably would have been taken in the 2nd if you believe all the stories of his playoff-run etc, but this question hurts the brain if you look at the 2nd round.

...Collberg, Finn, Kerdiles, Bystrom, Frk, Thrower, Pokka, Di Giuseppe, Sieloff, Bussieres, Blujus, McCabe, Sutter, Hart...etc.

Some of those guys are just as much "hype" as Moroz...but the skill-sets of those first 8 guys...certainly "sound" much better....when reading reports etc.
Well maybe? Keep some perspective, if they have great skill sets they would have been drafted higher.

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10-14-2012, 11:04 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
Well maybe? Keep some perspective, if they have great skill sets they would have been drafted higher.
After reading my post I have deemed it illegible. (This current is keeping with the style of my previous post)

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10-14-2012, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
I have nothing against Moroz, and he probably would have been taken in the 2nd if you believe all the stories of his playoff-run etc, but this question hurts the brain if you look at the 2nd round.

...Collberg, Finn, Kerdiles, Bystrom, Frk, Thrower, Pokka, Di Giuseppe, Sieloff, Bussieres, Blujus, McCabe, Sutter, Hart...etc.

Some of those guys are just as much "hype" as Moroz...but the skill-sets of those first 8 guys...certainly "sound" much better....when reading reports etc.
Collberg is a RW. We have Eberle, Yakupov and Hemsky as RW's. Also Tobias Rieder. Considering Collberg (5'11" 176lbs) would have to play in a top six role, which three of those players is he going to be better than?

Does he bring something to the table we dont already have or is he just another small skilled forward, for which we seem to have an abundance of already?

It really makes little sense to pick him considering the above.

We are also flush with d prospects. How does Finn, Thrower or McCabe fit into our system when we already have trouble finding spots in the AHL for our d prospects? Which one's of Teubert, Plante, Marincin, Davidson, Simpson, Gernat should be discarded to make room for the above players on your list?

The fact of the matter is that the 2012 draft wasnt a very deep or good draft once you get past the first round.

Add to that the Oilers identified needs that they wanted to fill. Holes in our prospect system. We have a dearth of big physical forwards who are capable or may be capable of playing on the top three lines. We also have a need at center and possibly in goal. If you look at who was drafted in the second round, who fills those needs?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2012e.html

The only real option I see is Lukas Sutter. Considering how he is doing so far this year, I could see a lot of complaining about taking him as well.

The only other centers with size were a couple of 92's in Martinook and Mallet.

If you look at it from that perspective the Oilers didnt have many choices.

And if you want to say they should have taken bpa at that spot with the intent to trade that player for need later, well, weve seen how few trades are even made in today's NHL so that seems like a pretty low percentage play. Possibly even lower than taking Moroz and having him pan out.

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10-14-2012, 11:15 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by speeds View Post
I never said all the players I had higher were doing better, I just posted the list of players I had rated higher at the time of the draft.

In terms of stats this year, it's still early and like I noted, Moroz not having a great start doesn't mean he'll definitely be a bust or anything.

FWIW, all 3 of those guys I still prefer to Moroz, and as I hinted at in my first post by no means do I think all 8 will, definitely, turn out better than Moroz, I'd be surprised if they did - that's the nature of the draft.

That may be, personally I reject the premise of drafting for need.
Just because you do doesn't mean that it isn't done, nor does it mean that it isn't done successfully. I'd also argue that a guy that can play on the 3rd line, hit like a truck, and fight all but the biggest of heavyweights would be a lot more valuable than a 2nd line winger that isn't good enough to carry his line. IF Moroz pans out he would be a very sought after commodity, toughness that can play a regular shift.

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Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
And that's the crux of it. The thought process behind drafting Moroz is what is wrong. Drafting a real hockey player and then trading him for a need is a better strategy than looking for unicorns.
See my above post, expecting to get a 1st line player or top pairing D at #31 is also looking for unicorns, sure it happens, but you might just strike out and have nothing to show for, just like Moroz might.

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Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
Yes, finally someone said what I meant. I'd rather go with more skill on early picks and take a chance on grit with less skills later on.

I remember what happened so many times when the Oilers went against consensus.
I'm pretty sure that we went against consensus with Petry didn't we? He's done rather well, consensus doesn't always lead to great success later on in the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
I have nothing against Moroz, and he probably would have been taken in the 2nd if you believe all the stories of his playoff-run etc, but this question hurts the brain if you look at the 2nd round.

...Collberg, Finn, Kerdiles, Bystrom, Frk, Thrower, Pokka, Di Giuseppe, Sieloff, Bussieres, Blujus, McCabe, Sutter, Hart...etc.

Some of those guys are just as much "hype" as Moroz...but the skill-sets of those first 8 guys...certainly "sound" much better....when reading reports etc.
I liked the possibility of getting Sutter or Thrower at #31, however we didn't pick them so I'll be cheering on Moroz to hopefully become the player that they envisioned when we drafted him.

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10-14-2012, 11:51 PM
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he doesn't look like he's even trying though. has no speed....I don't know what to say. I hope he pans out but I think that's a terrible pick.

Just like Plante...drafting based on toughness means nothing.

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10-15-2012, 12:57 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Collberg is a RW. We have Eberle, Yakupov and Hemsky as RW's. Also Tobias Rieder. Considering Collberg (5'11" 176lbs) would have to play in a top six role, which three of those players is he going to be better than?

Does he bring something to the table we dont already have or is he just another small skilled forward, for which we seem to have an abundance of already?

It really makes little sense to pick him considering the above.

We are also flush with d prospects. How does Finn, Thrower or McCabe fit into our system when we already have trouble finding spots in the AHL for our d prospects? Which one's of Teubert, Plante, Marincin, Davidson, Simpson, Gernat should be discarded to make room for the above players on your list?

The fact of the matter is that the 2012 draft wasnt a very deep or good draft once you get past the first round.

Add to that the Oilers identified needs that they wanted to fill. Holes in our prospect system. We have a dearth of big physical forwards who are capable or may be capable of playing on the top three lines. We also have a need at center and possibly in goal. If you look at who was drafted in the second round, who fills those needs?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2012e.html

The only real option I see is Lukas Sutter. Considering how he is doing so far this year, I could see a lot of complaining about taking him as well.

The only other centers with size were a couple of 92's in Martinook and Mallet.

If you look at it from that perspective the Oilers didnt have many choices.

And if you want to say they should have taken bpa at that spot with the intent to trade that player for need later, well, weve seen how few trades are even made in today's NHL so that seems like a pretty low percentage play. Possibly even lower than taking Moroz and having him pan out.
Out of who was left I would have liked to see them take Finn based solely on the premise I had him going top 20. Sutter or Sissons were my other two picks at that spot and I wouldn't have taken Moroz until our 3rd pick if I picked him at all. Would have rather seen them take Matt Murray instead of that Juhaira kid. Wont be surprised if those two picks never end up playing an NHL game.

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10-15-2012, 01:00 AM
  #417
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If he wasn't an oil king, he wouldnt have been picked. Who knows how well he takes instruction, if we are concerned with filling out our fourth line, this is the type of player your looking for. In the playoffs, guys like that can come at a premium, might as well train your own.

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10-15-2012, 01:09 AM
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Out of who was left I would have liked to see them take Finn based solely on the premise I had him going top 20. Sutter or Sissons were my other two picks at that spot and I wouldn't have taken Moroz until our 3rd pick if I picked him at all. Would have rather seen them take Matt Murray instead of that Juhaira kid. Wont be surprised if those two picks never end up playing an NHL game.
You would rather they picked a goalie at 32 with a career sub .900 Sv%?

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10-15-2012, 01:10 AM
  #419
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If he wasn't an oil king, he wouldnt have been picked. Who knows how well he takes instruction, if we are concerned with filling out our fourth line, this is the type of player your looking for. In the playoffs, guys like that can come at a premium, might as well train your own.
You sort of answered your own question there. Yeah, if he wasn't an Oil King, he likely wouldn't have been picked. But a lot of the pick was based on raw potential and you mention the question of how well he takes instruction. Well, the access to the answer to that question is literally in the same rink that the Oilers play in. They have full access to Laxdal, Hamilton, et al to answer any of those questions and I have to think they intensely questioned those guys about how well Moroz received coaching/instruction last year if they were basing a second round pick largely off potential.

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10-15-2012, 01:14 AM
  #420
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If he wasn't an oil king, he wouldnt have been picked. Who knows how well he takes instruction, if we are concerned with filling out our fourth line, this is the type of player your looking for. In the playoffs, guys like that can come at a premium, might as well train your own.
This seems to line up with what we are hearing about the direction the organization wants to go in. I think they recognize how hard it is to fill out the roster with trades and ufa's. The fact Moroz is from Alberta and may not have an issue with playing here probably factors into it to a large degree.

They have been burned too many times with trade requests from players they have brought in with trades and free agency.

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10-15-2012, 01:14 AM
  #421
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You would rather they picked a goalie at 32 with a career sub .900 Sv%?
No at 62 I would have, 1st pick of the 3rd round. Kid has a lot of potential IMO and was splitting time with Jack Campbell. At 32 I take Finn, Sutter, Sissons in that order.


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10-15-2012, 01:19 AM
  #422
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
This seems to line up with what we are hearing about the direction the organization wants to go in. I think they recognize how hard it is to fill out the roster with trades and ufa's. The fact Moroz is from Alberta and may not have an issue with playing here probably factors into it to a large degree.

They have been burned too many times with trade requests from players they have brought in with trades and free agency.
Weren't Comrie and Lupul both from Edmonton? Just because a kids from Alberta doesn't mean he's going to like playing here.

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10-15-2012, 01:26 AM
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Weren't Comrie and Lupul both from Edmonton? Just because a kids from Alberta doesn't mean he's going to like playing here.
Their reasons for leaving werent because they didnt like Edmonton. And Lupul didnt demand a trade IIRC.

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10-15-2012, 01:58 AM
  #424
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Their reasons for leaving werent because they didnt like Edmonton. And Lupul didnt demand a trade IIRC.
Either way both didn't turn out very well, and who cares if Moroz likes Edmonton if he never ends up playing a game here for the Oilers?

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10-20-2012, 11:17 PM
  #425
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Bump...

Too early to call him a reach at 32?

Point total: 4 assists
Games Played: 9

Gross average of 36 points over the season.

Henrik Samuelsson (drafted 27)

Point total: 11 (5 goals, 6 assists)
Games Played: 9

Man I wish we had moved up. A true power forward, nasty, willing to take a suspension and puts up the points.
Since this thread was last bumped.....

Moroz 4gp. 2-1-3 and Samuelsson has the same amount of points in that short span 1-2-3.

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