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Habs select Sebastian Collberg - 33rd overall

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Old
08-07-2012, 03:19 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Are you really this clueless??????

You are the one who tried to make a comparison between Grigorenko's shortcomings and Richard's problems. You have managed to completely support my point by stating that Richard's is a warrior. It is Grigorenko's panzy act on the ice that will make him a playoff flop.
Chill out dude. Pro hockey fandom just a hobby for most of us. We're not being paid for our opinions so it's ok if we disagree.

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08-07-2012, 05:42 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Are you really this clueless??????

You are the one who tried to make a comparison between Grigorenko's shortcomings and Richard's problems. You have managed to completely support my point by stating that Richard's is a warrior. It is Grigorenko's panzy act on the ice that will make him a playoff flop.
Hey, can I borrow your crystal ball?

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08-07-2012, 07:01 PM
  #403
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I wonder how many people would have rated Malkin to be a "10A" or even "10B,C,D" when he was drafted.
I have no idea, but I do remember some posters on these boards predicting that Malkin would be better than Ovechkin. It was heresy at the time. Not so much now. It can work out the other way, though. There were also some posters (far fewer, to be fair) who thought that Brule had a chance to be a better player than Crosby.

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08-07-2012, 07:28 PM
  #404
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I have no idea, but I do remember some posters on these boards predicting that Malkin would be better than Ovechkin. It was heresy at the time. Not so much now. It can work out the other way, though. There were also some posters (far fewer, to be fair) who thought that Brule had a chance to be a better player than Crosby.
Haha, I'll never forget those days. Brule better than Crosby? Haha. I also remember those Prucha > Crosby arguments.

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08-07-2012, 09:39 PM
  #405
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Collberg, Collberg, Collberg! The Collberg train has been derailed in this thread!

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08-07-2012, 09:45 PM
  #406
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Haha, I'll never forget those days. Brule better than Crosby? Haha. I also remember those Prucha > Crosby arguments.
I don't even know who Prucha is.

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08-07-2012, 09:52 PM
  #407
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Haha, I'll never forget those days. Brule better than Crosby? Haha. I also remember those Prucha > Crosby arguments.
Join date 2010??

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08-08-2012, 12:45 AM
  #408
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Are you really this clueless??????

You are the one who tried to make a comparison between Grigorenko's shortcomings and Richard's problems. You have managed to completely support my point by stating that Richard's is a warrior. It is Grigorenko's panzy act on the ice that will make him a playoff flop.
You don't even know who you're arguing with, and what about, because you're all ants up about...nothing really...

I never made a comparison between Richards and Grigs. The only thing I said was to relax on Grigs, he just got drafted. I don't know what Grigs will amount to, and neither do you quite frankly.

My point, which you completely missed, was that problems are FIXABLE. Grigs is a kid, he can still change. Give him proper support, and the right kind of leadership, and who knows. The kid has the skills, so really, it's up to him. Character is not forged at 18 buddy.

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08-08-2012, 03:06 AM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You don't even know who you're arguing with, and what about, because you're all ants up about...nothing really...

I never made a comparison between Richards and Grigs. The only thing I said was to relax on Grigs, he just got drafted. I don't know what Grigs will amount to, and neither do you quite frankly.

My point, which you completely missed, was that problems are FIXABLE. Grigs is a kid, he can still change. Give him proper support, and the right kind of leadership, and who knows. The kid has the skills, so really, it's up to him. Character is not forged at 18 buddy.
I understand what you are saying but Richard's never had any problems on the ice. The Flyers simply felt that his party boy act had to go. They wanted Pronger to be the undisputed leader and didn't want a divided dressing room.

My problem with Grigorenko is his fight/flight response. That can't be changed, it is a natural response that stays with you for life. I know I was always able to pick out the cowards on the other team on some really primal level. Pro athletes exist on this primal level while engaged in full contact sports and they are quickly targeted. The reason why I am so convinced about his lack of courage is because he is the most passive player that I have ever seen at that level of hockey. His pathetic interviews during and following the playoffs were an absolute confirmation about his compete level.

It isn't just me, there is a reason 11 teams passed on a 6'4 center with elite skills and this is exactly it. Before people throw out the anti Russian nonsense remember that a Russian went 1st overall who was smaller and had concussion concerns.

I stand by the fact that I would draft Collberg ahead of Grigorenko.

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08-08-2012, 08:29 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I understand what you are saying but Richard's never had any problems on the ice. The Flyers simply felt that his party boy act had to go. They wanted Pronger to be the undisputed leader and didn't want a divided dressing room.

My problem with Grigorenko is his fight/flight response. That can't be changed, it is a natural response that stays with you for life. I know I was always able to pick out the cowards on the other team on some really primal level. Pro athletes exist on this primal level while engaged in full contact sports and they are quickly targeted. The reason why I am so convinced about his lack of courage is because he is the most passive player that I have ever seen at that level of hockey. His pathetic interviews during and following the playoffs were an absolute confirmation about his compete level.

It isn't just me, there is a reason 11 teams passed on a 6'4 center with elite skills and this is exactly it. Before people throw out the anti Russian nonsense remember that a Russian went 1st overall who was smaller and had concussion concerns.

I stand by the fact that I would draft Collberg ahead of Grigorenko.

I think you're putting way too much stock on his interviews. There's also a huge difference between not being Elite and being crap.
You speak of Grigs as if he's absolute garbage. The only thing you seem to dislike is his compete level. There's a bunch of top 6 NHL players that you could say the same for, yet they're still in the NHL, in the top 6, and contributing.
And he still managed to score 85pts in 59gp in his rookie year. Let's see how he does next year.
12th overall is not a bad place to be picked at.

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08-08-2012, 08:39 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think you're putting way too much stock on his interviews. There's also a huge difference between not being Elite and being crap.
You speak of Grigs as if he's absolute garbage. The only thing you seem to dislike is his compete level. There's a bunch of top 6 NHL players that you could say the same for, yet they're still in the NHL, in the top 6, and contributing.
And he still managed to score 85pts in 59gp in his rookie year. Let's see how he does next year.
12th overall is not a bad place to be picked at.
You don't think he's making the Buffalo roster?

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08-08-2012, 09:07 AM
  #412
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Why are people still talking about Grigorenko? On the Collberg thread no less?

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08-08-2012, 09:17 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think you're putting way too much stock on his interviews. There's also a huge difference between not being Elite and being crap.
You speak of Grigs as if he's absolute garbage. The only thing you seem to dislike is his compete level. There's a bunch of top 6 NHL players that you could say the same for, yet they're still in the NHL, in the top 6, and contributing.
And he still managed to score 85pts in 59gp in his rookie year. Let's see how he does next year.
12th overall is not a bad place to be picked at.
If you take the time to re-read my original posts you will find that you are not even remotely getting the point.

I said that Grigorenko is very skilled but he is a player who puts up points during garbage time and disappears in the playoffs. There are heartless players in the NHL who play in the top six and are grossly overpayed only to fade when the going gets tough. The point is to draft winners, not youtube heroes for all of the fanboys on this site.

I don't feel like explaining this all over again so please take the time to understand my point of view before cherry picking comments you don't agree with.

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08-08-2012, 10:10 AM
  #414
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Any swedish league specialists here that know if Collberg is going to have a bigger role on his team this year?

And what about Grigorenko? Does he have a cat or a dog? Whats his favourite color?

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08-08-2012, 10:29 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Any swedish league specialists here that know if Collberg is going to have a bigger role on his team this year?

And what about Grigorenko? Does he have a cat or a dog? Whats his favourite color?
Lol Collberg is probably my favourite prospect ATM (after Gally obviously )

I would definitely like to hear more about him as well lol! There have been a few polls on the main threads with Frk vs Collberg and Aberg vs Collberg.

From what I have gathered Collberg will have it tough competing for a top 6 spot and will also have difficulties getting a PP slot since Frolunda just signed Fabian Brunnstrom therefore decreasing Coll's likeliness of getting more iceteam or a top 6 role

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08-08-2012, 10:35 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Any swedish league specialists here that know if Collberg is going to have a bigger role on his team this year?

And what about Grigorenko? Does he have a cat or a dog? Whats his favourite color?
Threads are going off-topic because it's the summer and there's no new material.

If Gomez were to tweet that he's managed to increase his maximum bench press by 5 lbs the thread would reach 10 pages in an afternoon.

I'm sure there will be a lot of analysis in this thread come the fall as people assess Colberg's on-ice performance and how he's progressing relative to the other prospects, etc.

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08-08-2012, 10:57 AM
  #417
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Any swedish league specialists here that know if Collberg is going to have a bigger role on his team this year?

And what about Grigorenko? Does he have a cat or a dog? Whats his favourite color?
Swedish fans think Collberg will be harder pressed to get top 6 minutes since his team signed Fabian Brunnstrom.

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08-08-2012, 11:08 AM
  #418
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Yeah, it seems like Collberg has his work cut out for him getting the ice-time he needs. I'm pulling for him though.

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08-08-2012, 11:39 AM
  #419
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Collberg seems to be the measuring stick for offensive players that have some question marks about them.Why this has happened I assume is that everyone concerned sees Collberg as the prospect that's most likely to succeed.Grigorenko,Aberg or Frk are definitely talented players that are compared to Collberg the blue-chip sniper from their draft.These players are all different types for one reason or another and IMO are unfairly compared to Collberg whose natural ability and vision make him that rare player that is always in the right spot.(the puck seems to follow him)Anyway you cut it the Habs have drafted well and many GM's will be shaking their heads in a few years,wondering why they didn't draft the smaller pit bull scorer(Collberg).

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08-08-2012, 11:55 AM
  #420
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Chill out dude. Pro hockey fandom just a hobby for most of us. We're not being paid for our opinions so it's ok if we disagree.

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That actually made me laugh

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08-08-2012, 12:14 PM
  #421
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I understand what you are saying but Richard's never had any problems on the ice. The Flyers simply felt that his party boy act had to go. They wanted Pronger to be the undisputed leader and didn't want a divided dressing room.

My problem with Grigorenko is his fight/flight response. That can't be changed, it is a natural response that stays with you for life. I know I was always able to pick out the cowards on the other team on some really primal level. Pro athletes exist on this primal level while engaged in full contact sports and they are quickly targeted. The reason why I am so convinced about his lack of courage is because he is the most passive player that I have ever seen at that level of hockey. His pathetic interviews during and following the playoffs were an absolute confirmation about his compete level.

It isn't just me, there is a reason 11 teams passed on a 6'4 center with elite skills and this is exactly it. Before people throw out the anti Russian nonsense remember that a Russian went 1st overall who was smaller and had concussion concerns.

I stand by the fact that I would draft Collberg ahead of Grigorenko.
I think this is a valid opinion, but I respectfully disagree with it based on the downside of both players.

To me, worst case scenario for Grigorenko is a frustrating second line center, who floats most of the time with occasional star-like sequence. But even with this worst case scenario, I can't see Grigorenko fail on the power play, making him almost a sure bet for the NHL.

On the other hand, Collberg may have a better chance of reaching his potential based on his "known" work ethic and drive on the ice, but the worst case scenario I can envision in his case is a small speedy second line winger unable to score at the pro level, therefore becoming less useful than a worst case Grigorenko.

But again, far from true scouting reports, these are just wild "prediction" based on the little glimpse I had, and my readings.

Cheers. Predicting the outcome of a draft is what this forum is all about. And most of us will be wrong.

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08-08-2012, 12:42 PM
  #422
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I wouldn't pick Collberg over Grigorenko...but I would have picked Forsberg or Teravainen over Grigs, both who are having a very nice summer. But I don't think Grigo will "bust", but will be a frustrating player.

But Collberg is the Habs prospect I am most excited about (Obviously Gally is another level, but with that comes a ridiculous level of hype I'm trying to ignore for my sanity's sake). We've needed another dynamic scorer as much as we need a true 1C.

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08-08-2012, 01:17 PM
  #423
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I think this is a valid opinion, but I respectfully disagree with it based on the downside of both players.

To me, worst case scenario for Grigorenko is a frustrating second line center, who floats most of the time with occasional star-like sequence. But even with this worst case scenario, I can't see Grigorenko fail on the power play, making him almost a sure bet for the NHL.

On the other hand, Collberg may have a better chance of reaching his potential based on his "known" work ethic and drive on the ice, but the worst case scenario I can envision in his case is a small speedy second line winger unable to score at the pro level, therefore becoming less useful than a worst case Grigorenko.

But again, far from true scouting reports, these are just wild "prediction" based on the little glimpse I had, and my readings.

Cheers. Predicting the outcome of a draft is what this forum is all about. And most of us will be wrong.
I don't think there's a single scout or GM that drafts a player based on the worst case scenario. They all base their opinion on a player's upside and best case scenario.

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08-08-2012, 01:50 PM
  #424
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I don't think there's a single scout or GM that drafts a player based on the worst case scenario. They all base their opinion on a player's upside and best case scenario.
I do think they also keep in mind the probabilities of reaching the NHL and reaching the potential. Like I said, I think the first element lean toward Grigorenko, and the second toward Collberg.

I guess everyteam and every scouting staff consider things a little differently, and that the GM also gives orientations.

I agree they probably don't draft based on the worse case scenario as a recurrent element, but I do think they consider it if the worse case scenario is a strong possibility of not even reaching the NHL.

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08-08-2012, 02:01 PM
  #425
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I do think they also keep in mind the probabilities of reaching the NHL and reaching the potential. Like I said, I think the first element lean toward Grigorenko, and the second toward Collberg.

I guess everyteam and every scouting staff consider things a little differently, and that the GM also gives orientations.

I agree they probably don't draft based on the worse case scenario as a recurrent element, but I do think they consider it if the worse case scenario is a strong possibility of not even reaching the NHL.
I don't think its such a certainty that Grigorenko becomes an NHLer. Trust me I believe in him more than most and Buffalo should be overjoyed to have him however I don't think he's going to stay in North America for long if he can't be more than an average 2nd liner or if he gets too much hate from coaches. Collberg is too much of a hard worker to not play in the NHL unless he doesn't have the talent for it (and everything seems to point towards him having this talent, altho its early to say that with certainty).

I hope we have the better of the two, imho its not out of question that we do. If both players reach top potential Grigorenko is far better but with Galchenyuk onboard its better to have a ''safe but exciting'' prospect at wing than an enigmatic center.

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