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Habs select Sebastian Collberg - 33rd overall

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Old
09-14-2012, 10:56 AM
  #551
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
47 games, and counting: 0 g - 0 a - 0 pt
Why is he considered good prospect ? What do I miss here ?

He plays on 4th line, why ? Because he's not good enough on the first 3 lines. If Eller or Desharnais play on that team, and start on the 4th line, with that talent, do you think that the coach will still let them play on the 4th line ?
The fact that stats aren't the whole story.

While I do admit not getting 1 point is kind of worrisome, he plays in a mens league, which has relegation. Every team is trying to win, and you don't win in a mens league by playing a 17 year old. Unless he truly is a special player, he's not going to be getting ice time handed to him. He's not big and strong enough to play on the top lines.

He dominated against his peers this past year at the WJC and U-18 tournaments. That's what is important at this point in time.

He needs to keep getting stronger, and playing, and eventually the points will start to come.

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09-14-2012, 11:03 AM
  #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
47 games, and counting: 0 g - 0 a - 0 pt
Why is he considered good prospect ? What do I miss here ?

He plays on 4th line, why ? Because he's not good enough on the first 3 lines. If Eller or Desharnais play on that team, and start on the 4th line, with that talent, do you think that the coach will still let them play on the 4th line ?
Funny you mention Eller, who put up a total of 2 points (both assists) and was only used for 14 games for his first season on the Frölunda.

But of course you know more about prospects than scouts, because you can read box scores!

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09-14-2012, 11:04 AM
  #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
47 games, and counting: 0 g - 0 a - 0 pt
Why is he considered good prospect ? What do I miss here ?

He plays on 4th line, why ? Because he's not good enough on the first 3 lines. If Eller or Desharnais play on that team, and start on the 4th line, with that talent, do you think that the coach will still let them play on the 4th line ?
Frolunda is one of the best teams in Sweden and has produced plenty of NHL-players during the years. Collberg is born '94 while the second youngest player in Frolunda is born '91 (playing 4th line aswell). After that the youngest forward is born '89. In fact, besides Collberg those are the only forwards under 25 years that Frolunda has. An example of Frolunda's forwards quality is that they have Fredrik Sjostrom (489 NHL games) on their 3rd line.

I don't think we should take it to hard that a prospect born '94 doesn't get much icetime in Frolunda. At the moment we should rather focus on the times he plays in the Junior National Team, which he always does great.

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09-14-2012, 11:54 AM
  #554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
47 games, and counting: 0 g - 0 a - 0 pt
Why is he considered good prospect ? What do I miss here ?

He plays on 4th line, why ? Because he's not good enough on the first 3 lines. If Eller or Desharnais play on that team, and start on the 4th line, with that talent, do you think that the coach will still let them play on the 4th line ?
7 points in 6 games at the WJC's. Outscored the likes of Filip Forsberg, Mika Zibanejad, Viktor Rask, Johan Larsson and Rickard Rakell - all of whom are either older than him or were drafted earlier than him.

Nicklas Backstrom had no points and was a bench-warmer his first SEL season. Pekka Rinne was a back-up who was scouted on his warm-ups because the scouts could never see him in an actual game. Bottom line is if you could scout everyone based on their stats, we wouldn't need scouts.

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09-14-2012, 12:24 PM
  #555
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Some SEL stats for fun...
Only first 2 seasons:
Filip Forsberg: 53 games, 18 pts
Mika Zibanejad: 52 games, 22 pts

Nicklas Backstrom: 65 games, 26 pts
Daniel Alfredsson: 60 games, 36 pts
Henrik Zetterberg: 95 games, 78 pts

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:36 PM
  #556
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Forsberg numbers aren't from SEL action, he was playing in a lower league since his team couldn't qualify for the SEL.

Zetteberg was 20 when he started playing in the SEL. A good chunk of Collberg's SEL action has been as a 17 year old.

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09-14-2012, 01:09 PM
  #557
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I see zzoo trollin', I'm hatin'.

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09-14-2012, 01:26 PM
  #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Some SEL stats for fun...
Only first 2 seasons:
Filip Forsberg: 53 games, 18 pts
Mika Zibanejad: 52 games, 22 pts

Nicklas Backstrom: 65 games, 26 pts
Daniel Alfredsson: 60 games, 36 pts
Henrik Zetterberg: 95 games, 78 pts
Forsberg, Zibanejad and Backstrom were drafted 12th, 7th, and 3rd. Collberg was drafted 33rd.

Alfredsson and Zetterberg were both 20 when they started in the SEL. Collberg was 17.

I also haven't see anyone claiming that Collberg is going to be as good as or better than any of the names you listed.

Come on bro.

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09-14-2012, 01:37 PM
  #559
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I see zzoo trollin', I'm hatin'.
Lol talk about taking stats out of context........

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09-14-2012, 01:46 PM
  #560
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I see zzoo trollin', I'm hatin'.
It's got to be trolling, I hope.

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09-15-2012, 08:30 AM
  #561
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Funny you mention Eller, who put up a total of 2 points (both assists) and was only used for 14 games for his first season on the Frölunda.
That is my concern. Eller is struggling to put up points at the NHL level. Players playing above their level and not producing seems to result in them continually not producing.

Players that dominated easier leagues tend to develop better.

Avtsin was stuck playing in the KHL against men and he didn't produce. He ended up coming to the AHL and then he couldn't produce there again.

Whereas players like Dashernais played in lower leagues to start and dominated and now he's producing in the NHL.

Having Collberg play 4th line minutes in a men's league isn't going to develop his scoring skills when he's playing on a line with plugs. It isn't developing him to his potential. He'd be better off in a lower league getting top minutes.


Look at how young players benefited from the last lockout and got an extra year to develop. Jason Spezza, Eric Staal, Michael Cammalleri, Patrice Bergeron and Dustin Brown all benefited from playing in the AHL, it didn't hurt their development.

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09-15-2012, 09:02 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by strutsboa View Post
Frolunda is one of the best teams in Sweden and has produced plenty of NHL-players during the years. Collberg is born '94 while the second youngest player in Frolunda is born '91 (playing 4th line aswell). After that the youngest forward is born '89. In fact, besides Collberg those are the only forwards under 25 years that Frolunda has. An example of Frolunda's forwards quality is that they have Fredrik Sjostrom (489 NHL games) on their 3rd line.

I don't think we should take it to hard that a prospect born '94 doesn't get much icetime in Frolunda. At the moment we should rather focus on the times he plays in the Junior National Team, which he always does great.
That should put an end to the debate...

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09-15-2012, 11:20 AM
  #563
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
That is my concern. Eller is struggling to put up points at the NHL level. Players playing above their level and not producing seems to result in them continually not producing.

Players that dominated easier leagues tend to develop better.

Avtsin was stuck playing in the KHL against men and he didn't produce. He ended up coming to the AHL and then he couldn't produce there again.

Whereas players like Dashernais played in lower leagues to start and dominated and now he's producing in the NHL.

Having Collberg play 4th line minutes in a men's league isn't going to develop his scoring skills when he's playing on a line with plugs. It isn't developing him to his potential. He'd be better off in a lower league getting top minutes.


Look at how young players benefited from the last lockout and got an extra year to develop. Jason Spezza, Eric Staal, Michael Cammalleri, Patrice Bergeron and Dustin Brown all benefited from playing in the AHL, it didn't hurt their development.
David Rundblad dominated the SEL and look how that turned out, he has no future in the NHL.

Fwiw, Eller didn't only get 2 assists in 14 games, he basically went scoreless for the most of 2008, and then went on a PPG pace for the last 30 games of the season.

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09-15-2012, 11:36 AM
  #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRM View Post
David Rundblad dominated the SEL and look how that turned out, he has no future in the NHL.

Fwiw, Eller didn't only get 2 assists in 14 games, he basically went scoreless for the most of 2008, and then went on a PPG pace for the last 30 games of the season.
Exactly, there's no magic formula for continous scoring success, especially in another league.

I'm sort of expecting something similar for Collberg as with Eller, that once he gets a goal the floodgates will be open. Could be wishful thinking and who knows, but his progression isn't odd at all.

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09-15-2012, 11:37 AM
  #565
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David Rundblad dominated the SEL and look how that turned out, he has no future in the NHL.
What??? or not?

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09-15-2012, 11:39 AM
  #566
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I think playing in leagues like sel as an adolescent makes you a better pro, more than a natural star...lets face it most of those sel prodigy have talent, they just learn how to exploit it, thats why collberg can learn out there... No rush really once he gets it, watch out.

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09-15-2012, 12:46 PM
  #567
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Halfway through today's Frolunda game and Collberg hasn't even seen a shift yet according to this:

http://www.hockeyligan.se/elitserien-arena/38098/

Click on Statistik, then Frolunda. Gives you TOI.

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09-15-2012, 01:27 PM
  #568
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Halfway through today's Frolunda game and Collberg hasn't even seen a shift yet according to this:

http://www.hockeyligan.se/elitserien-arena/38098/

Click on Statistik, then Frolunda. Gives you TOI.
Actually, seems like he is not really dressed according to the Swedish Hockey Association

http://stats.swehockey.se/Game/LineUps/115502

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09-15-2012, 01:40 PM
  #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRM View Post
David Rundblad dominated the SEL and look how that turned out, he has no future in the NHL.

Fwiw, Eller didn't only get 2 assists in 14 games, he basically went scoreless for the most of 2008, and then went on a PPG pace for the last 30 games of the season.
David Runblad isn't producing because he too was rushed, he shouldn't have been playing in the SEL until he was 20, he lost 2 valuable developmental years playing in a league he shouldn't have been in.

Thanks for proving my point with another example of prospects failing because they played in a men's league above their skill level when they were 18.

Also

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09-15-2012, 02:29 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
David Runblad isn't producing because he too was rushed, he shouldn't have been playing in the SEL until he was 20, he lost 2 valuable developmental years playing in a league he shouldn't have been in.

Thanks for proving my point with another example of prospects failing because they played in a men's league above their skill level when they were 18.

Also
Oh my! He shouldn't have been playing in the the SEL as a 20 year old when he as a 19/20 year old broke the SEL scoring record for defencemen?


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09-15-2012, 02:59 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by KRM View Post
Oh my! He shouldn't have been playing in the the SEL as a 20 year old when he as a 19/20 year old broke the SEL scoring record for defencemen?

Ouch!



And also thank's to all the Swede's who can update us

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09-15-2012, 03:12 PM
  #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
That is my concern. Eller is struggling to put up points at the NHL level. Players playing above their level and not producing seems to result in them continually not producing.

Players that dominated easier leagues tend to develop better.

Avtsin was stuck playing in the KHL against men and he didn't produce. He ended up coming to the AHL and then he couldn't produce there again.

Whereas players like Dashernais played in lower leagues to start and dominated and now he's producing in the NHL.

Having Collberg play 4th line minutes in a men's league isn't going to develop his scoring skills when he's playing on a line with plugs. It isn't developing him to his potential. He'd be better off in a lower league getting top minutes.


Look at how young players benefited from the last lockout and got an extra year to develop. Jason Spezza, Eric Staal, Michael Cammalleri, Patrice Bergeron and Dustin Brown all benefited from playing in the AHL, it didn't hurt their development.
Except Avtsin destroyed his youth team. There is no trend in this. The only fact is that prospects have taken various type of paths to the NHL and managed to succeed.

Having said that, A short loan to an Allsvenskan team would not be a bad idea for Collberg. A month or so.

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09-15-2012, 04:46 PM
  #573
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Oh my! He shouldn't have been playing in the the SEL as a 20 year old when he as a 19/20 year old broke the SEL scoring record for defencemen?

Learn to read better, I said he shouldn't have been there at 18 and he was ready at 20.

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09-15-2012, 09:16 PM
  #574
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Again, I'm just stunned to hear so many people saying how GREAT it is to see him in Sweden and all. Geez, there's how many players in the NHL actually DOMINATING the league and DIDN'T play in a men's league prior to their NHL career? Plenty. So I guess it's great when a junior kid is doing great in a men's league. But when a kid barely sees the ice, barely has points and often sits out....I'm sorry, but I'd take that "inferior" junior team any day of the week.

You read people and you believe that the only dominating guys in the NHL are Swedish and Russians.....

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09-15-2012, 10:54 PM
  #575
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https://twitter.com/steffeG/status/247142787563266048

Stefan G:son ‏@steffeG
"If I don't get ice-time I guess I'll have to go down play some jr. games." Collberg on lack of ice. Dominated that league 2 yrs ago. #Habs

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