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11'/12' Offseason /Trades/Signings: Burke's New Move?

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06-24-2012, 08:13 AM
  #676
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Originally Posted by rumman View Post
Dion isn't the Leafs best D man by a long shot. He's overpaid, defensively incompetent, and a questionable leader. He does possess a great shot, and can throw a good check. MPS is a work in progress, but his upside is worth it IMO. Franson's worth keeping, or packaging for another forward. Gagne's the last thing the Leafs need, ditto for Kabbi.
Ok. Who's better? Dion had 44 pts and almost 100pms, which is pretty damn good, averaged 25 minutes a game against other teams' top lines, blocked more shots than Schenn, +200 hits... all while embracing the C in arguably the hardest market to do so.

I'd say your value of Phaneuf is suspect, and if you ask others here I'm sure they'd agree.

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06-24-2012, 08:16 AM
  #677
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If I had to guess, I'd say Florida ends up with Luongo. They have a far superior prospect pool than us, he wants to go there, it's in the East, they have a history of trading together, and if he thrives at least it won't be with Toronto. I think we are all getting our hopes up.

I also think that it's Burke who is clearly not in the driver's seat here. Burke needs to make the playoffs next year and Luongo would almost guarantee that. Everyone knows this. If Burke doesn't ante up then Gillis will just trade him to Florida. I realize Florida is a budget team but I'm sure Tallon can make it work.

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06-24-2012, 08:22 AM
  #678
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Originally Posted by Komodo View Post
If I had to guess, I'd say Florida ends up with Luongo. They have a far superior prospect pool than us, he wants to go there, it's in the East, they have a history of trading together, and if he thrives at least it won't be with Toronto. I think we are all getting our hopes up.

I also think that it's Burke who is clearly not in the driver's seat here. Burke needs to make the playoffs next year and Luongo would almost guarantee that. Everyone knows this. If Burke doesn't ante up then Gillis will just trade him to Florida. I realize Florida is a budget team but I'm sure Tallon can make it work.
So Burke's hand is forced in what way? Gillis dictates a price, the only 2 teams in the league with any interest both say pass. How does Burke not have any power here?

I say for what Vancouver is rumoured to be asking, let Luongo go there. We'll get by with what we have and explore other options through the summer. And in case you've missed it, Gillis has been backpedaling ever since Luongo asked for a trade, trying to downplay the urgency to move him to drive his price up.

The only people who seem to attach this "need" for Burke to make the playoffs this year at the expense of mortgaging our future is fans like youself, and the media.

Most of us other level-headed fans just want to stay the course and continue making the right decisions - whether that's acquiring or passing on Luongo.

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06-24-2012, 08:26 AM
  #679
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Originally Posted by gmjohnny View Post
Rielly - Finn
Gardiner - Schultz
Percy - Blacker
Holzer


We are shifting from a big slow defence (Schenn, Phaneuf, Komi and Franson) to the quick mobile defence. Only Holzer has decent size of the above young guns.
The names look good. I don't think we can write off some of the current D for the future, though. Gunnarsson is fairly mobile and all-around good D-man, and he's only two years older than Holzer. And for all the hate on Phaneuf, he does have good speed on the rush.

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06-24-2012, 08:29 AM
  #680
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I'm hoping he goes to Florida or somewhere else. I still have faith in Reimer and think he can bounce back next season. If they wouldn't take Schenn for Luongo than I'm not really interested in what it would take. If I'm Florida I also take a pass. They have a goalie that brought them to the post season, and a solid prospect in waiting. Every team that needs a goalie seems to be looking elsewhere, the Leafs should as well.

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06-24-2012, 08:33 AM
  #681
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Man Paul Hendricks really hasn't been giving many hints as to what or when the next 'trade' will be.

Initially I thought it would be news about Schultz, either a trade for his rights of some sort. I guess it could still be news about him since tonight is the deadline for the Ducks to sign him.

We know that it isn't news about Luongo as they are nowhere near close to a deal for him.

Anyway, I hope we hear some rumblings today.

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06-24-2012, 08:34 AM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Schennanigans View Post
I'm hoping he goes to Florida or somewhere else. I still have faith in Reimer and think he can bounce back next season. If they wouldn't take Schenn for Luongo than I'm not really interested in what it would take. If I'm Florida I also take a pass. They have a goalie that brought them to the post season, and a solid prospect in waiting. Every team that needs a goalie seems to be looking elsewhere, the Leafs should as well.
I have to agree. Would be nice to have him but if there's any fire to the smoke that Schenn was offered for Lu and turned down before he was sent for JVR, I'd prefer to stay away from that. Florida I can't see really pushing either with Markstrom in the ranks....

The longer Gillis waits the worse it gets for him.

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06-24-2012, 08:36 AM
  #683
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So Burke's hand is forced in what way? Gillis dictates a price, the only 2 teams in the league with any interest both say pass. How does Burke not have any power here?

I say for what Vancouver is rumoured to be asking, let Luongo go there. We'll get by with wat we have and explore other options through the summer. And in case you've missed it, Gillis has been backpedaling ever since Luongo asked for a trade, trying to downplay the urgency to move him to drive his price up.

The only people who seem to attach this "need" for Burke to make the playoffs this year at the expense of mortgaging our future is fans like youself, and the media.

Most of us other level-headed fans just want to stay the course and continue making the right decisions - whether that's acquiring or passing on Luongo.
Florida is in a position of strength. They made the playoffs last year. They have the #1 goalie prospect in the world waiting in the wings, with Theodore signed for 1 more year. They have a boat load of prospects and Luongo wants to go there. BUT, Florida doesn't have to make that deal. There's not a lot of urgency there.

Burke on the other hand is operating in a state of urgency whether you like to admit it or not. Owners want the playoffs and so does Burke. If we miss the playoffs again next year you can bet that Burke will be under an incredible amount of pressure to do something. And in one year Kessel and Phaneuf will have one year left on their contracts before becoming UFAs. We all know our 2 biggest needs are by far a #1G and #1C, and if we go into next season with Scrivens/Reimer then there's a very good chance we don't make the playoffs.

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06-24-2012, 08:47 AM
  #684
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
Ok. Who's better? Dion had 44 pts and almost 100pms, which is pretty damn good, averaged 25 minutes a game against other teams' top lines, blocked more shots than Schenn, +200 hits... all while embracing the C in arguably the hardest market to do so.

I'd say your value of Phaneuf is suspect, and if you ask others here I'm sure they'd agree.
I don't see it like that at all, Dion's a defensive liability who granted can shoot the puck, and hit people, but come on, he's no leader, why do you thing Schenn was traded? A leader is suppose to bring a team together, not divide it, Calgary knew it when they traded him, and most Leaf fans should know it now too. For the money he makes, only Komi is worse. This is why I think MPS is fair value, he's a rising asset, while Dion's best days are far behind him, sad but true.

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06-24-2012, 09:02 AM
  #685
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Originally Posted by rumman View Post
I don't see it like that at all, Dion's a defensive liability who granted can shoot the puck, and hit people, but come on, he's no leader, why do you thing Schenn was traded? A leader is suppose to bring a team together, not divide it, Calgary knew it when they traded him, and most Leaf fans should know it now too. For the money he makes, only Komi is worse. This is why I think MPS is fair value, he's a rising asset, while Dion's best days are far behind him, sad but true.
If you're going to say he's no leader, you need a bit of basis for it.

What exactly points to him not being a good leader?

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06-24-2012, 09:07 AM
  #686
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Originally Posted by rumman View Post
I don't see it like that at all, Dion's a defensive liability who granted can shoot the puck, and hit people, but come on, he's no leader, why do you thing Schenn was traded? A leader is suppose to bring a team together, not divide it, Calgary knew it when they traded him, and most Leaf fans should know it now too. For the money he makes, only Komi is worse. This is why I think MPS is fair value, he's a rising asset, while Dion's best days are far behind him, sad but true.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or actually believe this. Dion, albeit not a defensive rock, is not a liability. It's the captain's fault that a player got traded? How do you know the team is divided? From the brief glimpses as a fan in to the team's interactions with each other, they seem to enjoy playing together and are genuinely happy to watch each other succeed. MPS has proven nothing while being given many chances in Edmonton. He's soft and has failed to show any of his offensive prowess in the NHL. He's still young and COULD prove to be worth something, but he is not a rising asset while Dion continues to put up points and be the Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

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06-24-2012, 09:11 AM
  #687
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Originally Posted by rumman View Post
I don't see it like that at all, Dion's a defensive liability who granted can shoot the puck, and hit people, but come on, he's no leader, why do you thing Schenn was traded? A leader is suppose to bring a team together, not divide it, Calgary knew it when they traded him, and most Leaf fans should know it now too. For the money he makes, only Komi is worse. This is why I think MPS is fair value, he's a rising asset, while Dion's best days are far behind him, sad but true.
I think Schenn was traded for a top-6 forward with size. What does that have to do with Phaneuf not being a good leader? You'd think we'd be more inclined to retain Schenn for his leadership qualities if Phaneuf lacked them.

You, nor I, have no idea what Calgary was thinking when they traded Phaneuf. Did Aulie also have "leadership issues" which is why they added him in? A 45pt physical all-star defenseman and you're saying he's only 2nd to Komi in contract value... god man, get a grip, stop forming opinions solely from Toronto Sun articles.

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06-24-2012, 09:16 AM
  #688
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The Dion bashing is dumb... The guy logged huge minutes and played in every situation. He is only 27 years old and entering his prime.

We are lucky to have him.

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06-24-2012, 09:20 AM
  #689
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Florida is in a position of strength. They made the playoffs last year. They have the #1 goalie prospect in the world waiting in the wings, with Theodore signed for 1 more year. They have a boat load of prospects and Luongo wants to go there. BUT, Florida doesn't have to make that deal. There's not a lot of urgency there.

Burke on the other hand is operating in a state of urgency whether you like to admit it or not. Owners want the playoffs and so does Burke. If we miss the playoffs again next year you can bet that Burke will be under an incredible amount of pressure to do something. And in one year Kessel and Phaneuf will have one year left on their contracts before becoming UFAs. We all know our 2 biggest needs are by far a #1G and #1C, and if we go into next season with Scrivens/Reimer then there's a very good chance we don't make the playoffs.
I do agree they're in a less-urgent state .. they're much better off than we are with their G depth. But if Markstrom falters at all they're basically pooched. Hey if they want to dip into their prospect pool and pull Luongo in by all means - they should.

But I think it's a serious stretch to think that we're going to start making ill-advised decisions just because we're operating in this phantom "state of urgency". I just don't buy it at all. Burke & Co don't either: they're all experienced players here, they don't just pull the trigger on JFJ trades for band-aid solutions - that's such a blatant rookie error and frankly I see any argument that tries to say Burke is susceptible to it as laughable.

How can you say what our chances of making or missing the post season are on June 24th? lol... You nor I have any idea what kind of shape either Reimer or Scrivens will be in come fall - for all we know, Reimer could return to his previous form.

Don't panic, friend.

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06-24-2012, 09:20 AM
  #690
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The Dion bashing is dumb... The guy logged huge minutes and played in every situation. He is only 27 years old and entering his prime.

We are lucky to have him.
Yep. He's a beast, and still has his best hockey ahead of him. Just wait until the playoffs

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06-24-2012, 09:23 AM
  #691
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The Dion bashing is dumb... The guy logged huge minutes and played in every situation. He is only 27 years old and entering his prime.

We are lucky to have him.
Yeah, I don't like it most of the time either. Before he came here, no one would have even imagined Dion in a Leafs uniform. Now that he's here, people want him gone. Leaf fans will watch all 82 games and scrutinize every mistake that our players make, but then suggest trading the same player for guys that they have barely ever watched play... I'm sure if those same people watched every player for 82 games a season then they would want nobody on their team hahaha

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06-24-2012, 09:27 AM
  #692
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Yeah, I don't like it most of the time either. Before he came here, no one would have even imagined Dion in a Leafs uniform. Now that he's here, people want him gone. Leaf fans will watch all 82 games and scrutinize every mistake that our players make, but then suggest trading the same player for guys that they have barely ever watched play... I'm sure if those same people watched every player for 82 games a season then they would want nobody on their team hahaha
I was just thinking this exact same thing earlier. When you don't see these other players all that often, you don't realize that they're going to make the same kinds of mistakes our players make. It's frustrating to watch the errors, because we know how much these guys get paid, but the reality is that all of these players are human, and make mistakes.

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06-24-2012, 09:27 AM
  #693
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I'm not sure if you're trolling or actually believe this. Dion, albeit not a defensive rock, is not a liability. It's the captain's fault that a player got traded? How do you know the team is divided? From the brief glimpses as a fan in to the team's interactions with each other, they seem to enjoy playing together and are genuinely happy to watch each other succeed. MPS has proven nothing while being given many chances in Edmonton. He's soft and has failed to show any of his offensive prowess in the NHL. He's still young and COULD prove to be worth something, but he is not a rising asset while Dion continues to put up points and be the Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
I find it laughable that because my opinion of Phaneuf differs from your's I'm possibly trolling, I'd expect more from a Board Monerator. Ultimately I see a overpaid defenseman who blows defensive assignment on a regular basis. More stressing is his indifference to these mistakes, and his unwillingness to be accountable for these mistakes. TSN interview at end of the season comes to mind. Dion's got a cannon of a shot, and no doubt can play the body as well as anyone, but his passing, skating, hockey sense are average at best. IMO.

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06-24-2012, 09:29 AM
  #694
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Yeah, I don't like it most of the time either. Before he came here, no one would have even imagined Dion in a Leafs uniform. Now that he's here, people want him gone. Leaf fans will watch all 82 games and scrutinize every mistake that our players make, but then suggest trading the same player for guys that they have barely ever watched play... I'm sure if those same people watched every player for 82 games a season then they would want nobody on their team hahaha
Nevermind the argument that Calgary actually pawned one of their problems on us in giving us Dion (and won the trade), which is probably as absurd as saying we won the Kessel or Raycroft trades.

Because Calgary's been the pinnacle of franchise management over the last 3 seasons, right?

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06-24-2012, 09:29 AM
  #695
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If we can pick up Schultz, then I think this will be one of our best off-seasons as of late.

Schultz - potential #1/2
Rielly - potential #1/2
Finn - potential #3/4
JVR - potential top line winger

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06-24-2012, 09:29 AM
  #696
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i just cant see Luongo as an option... His contact is HUGE, his best years are behind him and his physique is damaged...

I would rather try and get Backstrom. Minnie needs offense and they have Harding and Hackett that would be a solid duo...

MacA + Frattin for Backstrom?

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06-24-2012, 09:30 AM
  #697
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I do agree they're in a less-urgent state .. they're much better off than we are with their G depth. But if Markstrom falters at all they're basically pooched. Hey if they want to dip into their prospect pool and pull Luongo in by all means - they should.

But I think it's a serious stretch to think that we're going to start making ill-advised decisions just because we're operating in this phantom "state of urgency". I just don't buy it at all. Burke & Co don't either: they're all experienced players here, they don't just pull the trigger on JFJ trades for band-aid solutions - that's such a blatant rookie error and frankly I see any argument that tries to say Burke is susceptible to it as laughable.

How can you say what our chances of making or missing the post season are on June 24th? lol... You nor I have any idea what kind of shape either Reimer or Scrivens will be in come fall - for all we know, Reimer could return to his previous form.

Don't panic, friend.


I guess I just don't have much faith in our goaltending, or Reimer specifically. I prefer Scrivens and like his composure, but he's too inexperienced to pin our playoff hopes on.

I just think Luongo is exactly what we need. He's got the experience and media savvy to handle the TO spotlight just like Cujo/Belfour. He'd give a major confidence boost to our team and have a calming influence in our dressing room and on the ice.

Do you remember how bad our goaltending was last year? I just think it'd be a major gamble to go into next season without a bonafide #1G.

That being said, I really, really do not want to give up a prized asset for Luongo. Yeah, I know that's a little contradictory, but I just hope it works out.

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06-24-2012, 09:32 AM
  #698
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I find it laughable that because my opinion of Phaneuf differs from your's I'm possibly trolling, I'd expect more from a Board Monerator. Ultimately I see a overpaid defenseman who blows defensive assignment on a regular basis. More stressing is his indifference to these mistakes, and his unwillingness to be accountable for these mistakes. TSN interview at end of the season comes to mind. Dion's got a cannon of a shot, and no doubt can play the body as well as anyone, but his passing, skating, hockey sense are average at best. IMO.
In fairness, when asked why you cited reasons of leadership questions and referenced why Calgary would trade him in the first place. That logic is extremely flawed - who knows why Calgary does all sorts of things these days?

Dion's stats speak for themselves, and his all-star appearance should indicate some level of heightened competency in the NHL, and conversely you compared him to Komisarek.

Can you see why people may react poorly to this?

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06-24-2012, 09:32 AM
  #699
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Yeah, Backstrom should also be at the top of our list. He'd be a great addition, but I'm not sure how eager Minny is to just get rid of him either. Like Luongo, Minny would be asking for something valuable in return. We are going to have to give to get.

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06-24-2012, 09:36 AM
  #700
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Yeah, Backstrom should also be at the top of our list. He'd be a great addition, but I'm not sure how eager Minny is to just get rid of him either. Like Luongo, Minny would be asking for something valuable in return. We are going to have to give to get.
i think Frattin + MacA is fair value for Backstrom... He has only one year left so we would have plenty of options... If he is great then we resign him if not he can go and Reimer and Scrivens are one year more seasoned.

Hackett is ready and Harding is a prooven 1b

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