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Old
06-28-2012, 01:34 PM
  #776
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I can't imagine what would happen to this board if we ever had a first round bust a la Hugh Jessiman.

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06-28-2012, 01:42 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by Jaydepps View Post
I can't imagine what would happen to this board if we ever had a first round bust a la Hugh Jessiman.
Holmgren would be given a free pass.
FACT.

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06-28-2012, 01:48 PM
  #778
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Originally Posted by Jaydepps View Post
I can't imagine what would happen to this board if we ever had a first round bust a la Hugh Jessiman.
Up to this point, does JVR not count?

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06-28-2012, 01:48 PM
  #779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Holmgren would be given a free pass.
FACT.
Haha. There are like four other people besides me who defend Homer. Who is giving him these passes?

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06-28-2012, 01:49 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Haha. There are like four other people besides me who defend Homer. Who is giving him these passes?
I don't get all the homer hate at all

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06-28-2012, 01:49 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Up to this point, does JVR not count?
JVR is a solid NHL player at this point in his career. Jessiman...no where close.

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06-28-2012, 01:50 PM
  #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Up to this point, does JVR not count?
I wouldn't quite call JVR a bust just yet. He has been injury prone, and I know that can directly correlate to players busting. He is a bit too young to declare as a bust as is Schenn. We basically traded potential for potential. Now we get to see which one pans out. If JVR can't stay healthy then he will most likely top out as a 20 goal scorer.

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06-28-2012, 01:53 PM
  #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Haha. There are like four other people besides me who defend Homer. Who is giving him these passes?
There are countless other GMs out there that are much worse. I guess we are in a pretty bad position thanks to Homer. I mean we have a talented young team with playoff experience that is only going to get better.

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06-28-2012, 01:55 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by Giroux 4 MVP View Post
I don't get all the homer hate at all
Never understood it either.

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06-28-2012, 01:56 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Giroux 4 MVP View Post
I don't get all the homer hate at all
Because we traded Scottie Upshall and Simon Gagne for salary cap reasons, and Mike Richards and Jeff Carter for salary cap reasons/reasons we still don't know....all for players others on this board didn't like as much or haven't proven enough yet.

Oh we signed Jody Shelley for 3 years for over $1m a year.

I just wish we were good enough to make the playoffs every once and awhile

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06-28-2012, 01:57 PM
  #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Haha. There are like four other people besides me who defend Homer. Who is giving him these passes?
the Philly media.
Holmgren could trade Giroux for a 7th rounder and the Flyers media would find a way to justify it. Just like some of the folks around here. they would say sure it was a bad deal but hes made some good moves overall!!!!!!!

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06-28-2012, 01:58 PM
  #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Because we traded Scottie Upshall and Simon Gagne for salary cap reasons, and Mike Richards and Jeff Carter for salary cap reasons/reasons we still don't know....all for players others on this board didn't like as much or haven't proven enough yet.

Oh we signed Jody Shelley for 3 years for over $1m a year.

I just wish we were good enough to make the playoffs every once and awhile
Gagne was constantly hurt, ups hall has been pretty bad besides one year after the trade, the only knock on holmgren is Shelley IMO, whether u like it or not Richards and carter are gone and I like how the team is, bryz isn't his fault it's sniders, and I still think he will turn it around

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06-28-2012, 02:00 PM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Because we traded Scottie Upshall and Simon Gagne for salary cap reasons, and Mike Richards and Jeff Carter for salary cap reasons/reasons we still don't know....all for players others on this board didn't like as much or haven't proven enough yet.

Oh we signed Jody Shelley for 3 years for over $1m a year.

I just wish we were good enough to make the playoffs every once and awhile
How could you forget how stupid Homer was letting Couturier waste his first year of his ELC toiling on the 4th line?

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06-28-2012, 02:01 PM
  #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux 4 MVP View Post
Gagne was constantly hurt, ups hall has been pretty bad besides one year after the trade, the only knock on holmgren is Shelley IMO, whether u like it or not Richards and carter are gone and I like how the team is, bryz isn't his fault it's sniders, and I still think he will turn it around
Oh I like it. You're preaching to the choir. Mistakes? Yes... Something I'm going to dwell on for YEARS like others? Nope.

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06-28-2012, 02:08 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by Giroux 4 MVP View Post
Gagne was constantly hurt, ups hall has been pretty bad besides one year after the trade, the only knock on holmgren is Shelley IMO, whether u like it or not Richards and carter are gone and I like how the team is, bryz isn't his fault it's sniders, and I still think he will turn it around
Fair enough.

Now explain how the Flyers haven't addressed the one glaring need since the day Holmgren took over?

Yes, there has been a massive gaping hole for years and years, but if Holmgren is so ****ing good, why hasn't he fixed the problem?

Why is it that the Flyers are forced to make decisions based solely on salary cap because they're right up against it, despite the cap increasing year after year?

Why has he consistently bid against himself to raise the price for players? Is that what you feel "good" GM's do?

And let's not even discuss the Leighton fiasco.

I'm not saying that everything Holmgren has ever done has been bad. However, he continues to shoot himself in the foot with the same damn issues time and time again.

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06-28-2012, 02:10 PM
  #791
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Holmgren either ignores the problem or goes way overboard trying to fix the problem. See last years offseason. Now I am not going to put all that on Holmgren. Some of that is on the senile old man who still owns the team.

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06-28-2012, 02:13 PM
  #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Fair enough.

Now explain how the Flyers haven't addressed the one glaring need since the day Holmgren took over?

Yes, there has been a massive gaping hole for years and years, but if Holmgren is so ****ing good, why hasn't he fixed the problem?

Why is it that the Flyers are forced to make decisions based solely on salary cap because they're right up against it, despite the cap increasing year after year?

Why has he consistently bid against himself to raise the price for players? Is that what you feel "good" GM's do?

And let's not even discuss the Leighton fiasco.

I'm not saying that everything Holmgren has ever done has been bad. However, he continues to shoot himself in the foot with the same damn issues time and time again.
What massive gaping problem are you talking about? Goaltending? Defense? A sour fanbase? Bryz is our answer to the goaltending problem, but of course people don't like it...his contract is bad. The defense was the strongest part of the team with a healthy Pronger. Homer did that. He can't sit there and expect a career ending injury to our best player. Our defense is still very good, they need to start playing like it.

What players are you talking about where he raised the price?

I fail to see what part of Leighton was a fiasco, either...

PLEASE fill me in for each.

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06-28-2012, 02:13 PM
  #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
the Philly media.
I've heard the Philly media question Homer plenty of times. They aren't as extreme about it as people around here, but they certainly call him out WHEN HE DESERVES IT. If he gives someone $100k "too much" by the standards of the board, no they aren't writing articles about how dumb he is, but they get on him when necessary.

Quote:
Holmgren could trade Giroux for a 7th rounder and the Flyers media would find a way to justify it. Just like some of the folks around here. they would say sure it was a bad deal but hes made some good moves overall!!!!!!!
Yeah, I guess it would be better to complain constantly. It's funny that things like trading the picks away makes him a bad GM and hampers the performance of the team and so forth, but when he makes trades that draft picks back no one seems to notice or care. He got a third rounder for the rights to Hamhuis (from a division rival, no less). If he had simply traded that pick for nothing, he would have KILLED around here. But he gets the pick for nothing and that doesn't even matter. During Homer's tenure he has traded away 30 picks, but has also received 23 in return. Here's the breakdown:

Outgoing:
Five firsts
Eight seconds
Nine thirds
Five fourths (one being conditional)
Two fifth
One Sixth

Incoming:
Three first
Three seconds
Nine thirds
Three fourths
One Sixth
Three seventh
One conditional pick that I could figure out what round that actual went to

While he has traded away more picks, two of the firsts went to Pronger, which I think the general consensus around here is that this was a good trade, another went to Nashville for Hartnell and Timonen's rights, another solid move. The biggest discrepancy is second rounders, and while some were certainly overpayments, he also used one to get Grossman and one to get Meszaros. Third rounders he broke even on. Fourth through seventh round he traded away one more than he received. So I guess that means he really did screw us over. WE COULD HAVE HAD SEVEN MORE DRAFT PICKS OVER THE LAST SEVEN OR WHATEVER YEARS!!! HE IS SO DUMB!!!! Come on.

The guy has certainly made some head-scratchers regarding trading picks. But those picks have not had the crippling effect on this team that people make it to be, especially considering the players he got back in some of those deals, and the picks he got back in other deals. Get over it.


Last edited by DrinkFightFlyers: 06-28-2012 at 02:26 PM.
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06-28-2012, 02:14 PM
  #794
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Fair enough.

Now explain how the Flyers haven't addressed the one glaring need since the day Holmgren took over?

Yes, there has been a massive gaping hole for years and years, but if Holmgren is so ****ing good, why hasn't he fixed the problem?

Why is it that the Flyers are forced to make decisions based solely on salary cap because they're right up against it, despite the cap increasing year after year?

Why has he consistently bid against himself to raise the price for players? Is that what you feel "good" GM's do?

And let's not even discuss the Leighton fiasco.

I'm not saying that everything Holmgren has ever done has been bad. However, he continues to shoot himself in the foot with the same damn issues time and time again.
Not trying to get in an argument here, but I am just curious about this whole "bidding against himself" theory. Is there actually any evidence thats supports this, or what? How do you guys know that he substanitally raised an offer for a player that nobody else was going for?

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06-28-2012, 02:19 PM
  #795
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Originally Posted by LetsGoFlyers1825 View Post
Not trying to get in an argument here, but I am just curious about this whole "bidding against himself" theory. Is there actually any evidence thats supports this, or what? How do you guys know that he substanitally raised an offer for a player that nobody else was going for?
Holmgren was bidding against himself for Pronger's services. Its abeen talked about quite a bit around here.
Probably could of made one of those 1st conditional instead of the 3rd.
Holmgren also was bidding against himself for the Versteeg trade. Burke even said no team had even approached them about Versteeg.

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06-28-2012, 02:24 PM
  #796
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Holmgren was bidding against himself for Pronger's services. Its abeen talked about quite a bit around here.
Probably could of made one of those 1st conditional instead of the 3rd.
Holmgren also was bidding against himself for the Versteeg trade. Burke even said no team had even approached them about Versteeg.
Just because he didn't have comepetion for Versteeg, doesn't mean Burke was just going to let him go. The Flyers were coming off a Cup final run before and felt they had the potential to get back there. Versteeg is a 50 point second line player who still can improve his numbers. It just was not working out here, he made a splash and Steeg didn't fit this group.

I have heard about this Pronger thing for a while too, but never have seen any details to it. They might be out there, but I would like someone to confirm it to me. Also it was Chris ****ing Pronger we were getting! The price was always going to be high.

Luca Sbisa
1st(2009)
1st(2010)
conditional 3rd
Lupul(salary dump)

I do not regret that trade one bit. It's just a shame what happened to him and his career. If he was still playing I almost guarantee nobody would be *****ing about the price to acquire him.

Also Schenn will wear #22 for the Flyers.


Last edited by Prongo: 06-28-2012 at 02:31 PM.
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Old
06-28-2012, 02:27 PM
  #797
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Holmgren was bidding against himself for Pronger's services. Its abeen talked about quite a bit around here.
Probably could of made one of those 1st conditional instead of the 3rd.
Holmgren also was bidding against himself for the Versteeg trade. Burke even said no team had even approached them about Versteeg.
Alright fair enough. I still think that the Versteeg deal was fair at the time, but the Pronger deal was a bit much. That being said, if he could have had Pronger for less, he would have. It cant be said he outbid himself without us knowing how negotiations went and such.

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06-28-2012, 02:32 PM
  #798
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Tootoo was scratched on a Nashville Predators team that isn't exactly overflowing with talent at forward. Do not want.
Somebody already explained this; Nashville likw 12 fowards competing for 8 spots so they went with pure skill for all their spots. Didn't work out so well for them though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Whos ****ing *****ing about the 2nd rounder this year? I said I liked the pick. this was the first time they had a 2nd in how long? 5 years?
The Flyers need size and toughness. They dont need stupid.
The Flyers already have Rinaldo,Shelley and Sestito to swing in and out of that 4th line. They have enough stupid hockey players.
Alright, so then stop crying dammit.

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06-28-2012, 02:34 PM
  #799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Just because he didn't have comepetion for Versteeg, doesn't mean Burke was just going to let him go. The Flyers were coming off a Cup final run before and felt they had the potential to get back there. Versteeg is a 50 point second line player who still can improve his numbers. It just was not working out here, he made a splash and Steeg didn't fit this group.

I have heard about this Pronger thing for a while too, but never have seen any details to it. They might be out there, but I would like someone to confirm it to me. Also it was Chris ****ing Pronger we were getting! The price was always going to be high.

Also Schenn will wear #22 for the Flyers.

Do your own work. Bob Murray (Ducks' GM) has openly stated the Flyers were the only team interested in Pronger at that point.

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06-28-2012, 02:36 PM
  #800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Just because he didn't have comepetion for Versteeg, doesn't mean Burke was just going to let him go. The Flyers were coming off a Cup final run before and felt they had the potential to get back there. Versteeg is a 50 point second line player who still can improve his numbers. It just was not working out here, he made a splash and Steeg didn't fit this group.

I have heard about this Pronger thing for a while too, but never have seen any details to it. They might be out there, but I would like someone to confirm it to me. Also it was Chris ****ing Pronger we were getting! The price was always going to be high.

Luca Sbisa
1st(2009)
1st(2010)
conditional 3rd
Lupul(salary dump)

I do not regret that trade one bit. It's just a shame what happened to him and his career. If he was still playing I almost guarantee nobody would be *****ing about the price to acquire him.

Also Schenn will wear #22 for the Flyers.
The Versteeg trade was a bad trade. he was here for what 2 months and he was dumped for a couple of draft picks which we gave away in another stupid trade.
Never said I hated the Pronger trade. but like I said at the time he was bidding against himself. The one thing i didnt like was one of those 1st rounders not being conditional. Thats the only thing I would argue against even with a healthy Pronger.

Luca Sbisa
1st(2009)
1st(2010) conditional
3rd(2010)
Lupul(salary dump)
for
Pronger

the deal still gets done IMO

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