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Philadelphia's Potential Problem

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Old
06-23-2012, 08:35 PM
  #26
SoupyFIN
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Easy. Future star UFAs going there are going to demand a NMC, just like Bryz. No problem there.

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Old
06-23-2012, 09:07 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullksinikers View Post
This is purely my speculation, but I think Philadelphia may have a bit of a potential problem thanks to Holmgren. With JvR getting deal today, this is the third player Holmgren has dealt within the last year (Carter and Richards the other two) in which the player dealt had recently signed a contract extension with a bit of length to it. JvR signed a six-year deal, Carter signed an eleven-year deal, and Richards signed a twelve-year deal.

I think the potential problem is players seeing guys who signed extensions of this length getting dealt and not being able to trust the long-term commitment enough to sign or re-sign with the Flyers. Holmgren may show long-term commitment by signing someone to a long-term deal, but the lack of waiting out a lot of the contract may start making players shy away from signing long-term deals in Philadelphia.

Thoughts?
My thoughts are, if I'm signing a deal that long, I want to know I'm playing for the team I signed it with. I'd need an NTC clause...because I do NOT want to play out the rest of my 12 year deal, regardless of the $$$$ amount, playing for Columbus (for instance), when I signed the contract to play for Philadelphia (also for instance).

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Old
06-23-2012, 09:20 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullksinikers View Post
This is purely my speculation, but I think Philadelphia may have a bit of a potential problem thanks to Holmgren. With JvR getting deal today, this is the third player Holmgren has dealt within the last year (Carter and Richards the other two) in which the player dealt had recently signed a contract extension with a bit of length to it. JvR signed a six-year deal, Carter signed an eleven-year deal, and Richards signed a twelve-year deal.

I think the potential problem is players seeing guys who signed extensions of this length getting dealt and not being able to trust the long-term commitment enough to sign or re-sign with the Flyers. Holmgren may show long-term commitment by signing someone to a long-term deal, but the lack of waiting out a lot of the contract may start making players shy away from signing long-term deals in Philadelphia.

Thoughts?
I don't think it will stop guys from signing with Philly, but you may see guys not willing to take a hometown discount to stay there.

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Old
06-23-2012, 09:23 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullksinikers View Post
This is purely my speculation, but I think Philadelphia may have a bit of a potential problem thanks to Holmgren. With JvR getting deal today, this is the third player Holmgren has dealt within the last year (Carter and Richards the other two) in which the player dealt had recently signed a contract extension with a bit of length to it. JvR signed a six-year deal, Carter signed an eleven-year deal, and Richards signed a twelve-year deal.

I think the potential problem is players seeing guys who signed extensions of this length getting dealt and not being able to trust the long-term commitment enough to sign or re-sign with the Flyers. Holmgren may show long-term commitment by signing someone to a long-term deal, but the lack of waiting out a lot of the contract may start making players shy away from signing long-term deals in Philadelphia.

Thoughts?
Hopefully bryz is next. And dont look that deep into it. Its a business. Not Survivor, NHL edition

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Old
06-23-2012, 09:47 PM
  #30
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Simply put, Pro Hockey is a business ! If you cannot take the heat, stay outta the kitchen.The players are paid well, stay in 1st class hotels, and get tons of woman to play with......JVR will be just fine, as will Luke Shenn etc etc.

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Old
06-23-2012, 10:25 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redarmynative View Post
Richards and Carter were causing problems in the locker room so that is understandable. However JVR wanted to stay with the Flyers and signed a long-term deal for that reason. Basically Holmgren ****ed him over but that's business. This leads to younger prospects who may have wanted to stay with the Flyers realize that no matter what happens or how much you commit yourself to the team the GM will still trade you.
No, JVR signed a long-term contract because it was guaranteed overpayment for the better part of a decade.

And I don't believe there's such a thing as a hometown discount. Not now anyway.

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Old
06-24-2012, 02:32 AM
  #32
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I thought this fact was being overblown to start with, but 3 players in one year does not look good on an organization.

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Old
06-24-2012, 02:49 AM
  #33
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Ship out two locker room cancers and a player who was about to start a big contract that he hasn't proven himself for and suddenly we have a problem

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Old
06-24-2012, 02:56 AM
  #34
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Don't think it's a big problem.

It's only bad if someone leaves their current team, signs as an UFA with you and then you proceed to trade him.

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06-24-2012, 02:58 AM
  #35
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I would not trust anything that Flyer's management promised me, outside of it being in writing, in clear unmistakable legally binding language in the contract. Then again you are a fool if you trust anyone, not just the Flyers, and not just in hockey, without protecting yourself contractually. If you do not put a no movement clause into your contact, or sign a shorter term deal until you can put one in, then you really should be looking for a new agent more than being mad at the team that screwed you over.

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Old
06-24-2012, 03:04 AM
  #36
Krishna
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Also, with the exception of Carter, how is it bad being traded from Philadelphia, which is an ok city, to LA or Toronto?

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06-24-2012, 03:06 AM
  #37
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If anything, I think you'll find players less willing to sign away UFA years while RFAs for the team. It makes dealing with the cap a little more difficult for the GM, but that's about it. The only other effect I see is that Philly will likely have to give some form of NMC or modified NTC to any UFA who signs for even 4-5 years.

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06-24-2012, 03:15 AM
  #38
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I love how quickly fans forget the years of contribution and solid play of players the immediate moment said players are dealt. Remember how JVR had 7 goals in 11 playoff games? Or when Mike Richards was cannon with some fans going as far as saying that they wouldn't take Sidney Crosby for him? It isn't just the fans who are fickle, but you have the Al Davis of the NHL pulling the strings and look at the position the team is in with older overpaid players.

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Old
06-24-2012, 03:25 AM
  #39
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It sounds like Carter and Richards teammates understood why they were shipped out.

There's also a chance that long term deals like theirs will be a thing of the past after the next CBA, so convincing other players to sign similar deals could be a non-issue in the future.

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06-24-2012, 03:28 AM
  #40
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I'm not so sure that the long term deals are an issue...it's the players taking home town discounts, that won't be so quick to do so now. If they're being offered a long term, fair market contract, I don't see it being an issue, since it gives the player stability.

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Old
06-24-2012, 03:33 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
It sounds like Carter and Richards teammates understood why they were shipped out.

There's also a chance that long term deals like theirs will be a thing of the past after the next CBA, so convincing other players to sign similar deals could be a non-issue in the future.
They knew.. Hell, Lupul was on twitter ******** about it after the kings won the cup.. He was probably shipped out just the same as them as he was in their group of partiers

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Old
06-24-2012, 03:37 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
They knew.. Hell, Lupul was on twitter ******** about it after the kings won the cup.. He was probably shipped out just the same as them as he was in their group of partiers


Don't get me started on Lupul. After we traded him he had a line of ******** for our team, too.

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06-24-2012, 04:05 AM
  #43
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It would only concern potential RFA's wanting to sign long term discount contracts. Instead of 4-5+ year contracts, they sign 2-3 and then re-up when they can get NTC's.

But as many said for UFA, they don't care they will get paid, and if they're signing long term they can negotiate NTC's.

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Old
06-24-2012, 06:59 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpyD View Post
I wouldn't sign a long-term deal with the Flyers if I was a rising star.
Why not? At least Richards, Carter and JVR are set for quite some time thanks to Holmgren.

Richards and Carter are out in LA with a shiny new Cup ring coming their way and JVR doesn't seem to upset about coming to Toronto.

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Old
06-24-2012, 07:06 AM
  #45
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I think the difference is these guys were all drafted and groomed by the Flyers, as opposed to being UFA's who choose to play for Philly. If they had been with another team, signed with them and were traded within a year, that would look bad, but as it stands, I don't think it's great PR for them, but it's not horrible either.

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Old
06-24-2012, 07:10 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I would not trust anything that Flyer's management promised me, outside of it being in writing, in clear unmistakable legally binding language in the contract. Then again you are a fool if you trust anyone, not just the Flyers, and not just in hockey, without protecting yourself contractually. If you do not put a no movement clause into your contact, or sign a shorter term deal until you can put one in, then you really should be looking for a new agent more than being mad at the team that screwed you over.
It works both ways. Just as the players trust the team not to screw them over, the Flyers pay these guys big bucks trusting that these "superstars" will play to the best of their capabilities. When they don't it's the teams fault all of a sudden for trying to fix their team?

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Old
06-24-2012, 07:11 AM
  #47
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I would say it does not affect much concerning UFA's. RFA players might be less accepting of long contracts on other hand before reaching UFA. Instead of 10+ years would probably prefer UFA age + 1.

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Old
06-24-2012, 07:32 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redarmynative View Post
Richards and Carter were causing problems in the locker room so that is understandable. However JVR wanted to stay with the Flyers and signed a long-term deal for that reason. Basically Holmgren ****ed him over but that's business. This leads to younger prospects who may have wanted to stay with the Flyers realize that no matter what happens or how much you commit yourself to the team the GM will still trade you.
LOL. JVR, other than that one legendary playoff run, played about as perimeter a game as anyone his size could have. Ask any Flyer fan not related to him, he's done nothing but leave you wanting. You know he's capable of more, cause you've seen it. He chooses to bring it one or two shifts every 5 games or so. That is not commitment.

Commitment is giving him all that money based on potential.

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Old
06-24-2012, 07:51 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
I thought this fact was being overblown to start with, but 3 players in one year does not look good on an organization.
Not really. In my opinion the JVR trade probably wouldn't have happened had Pronger stayed healthy.

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Old
06-24-2012, 08:13 AM
  #50
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I doesn't look very good, sure. But I don't feel like it will be a big problem for the Flyers anyway. I sure hope that it won't be.

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