HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

"Not enough depth yet"

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-23-2012, 04:36 PM
  #1
TheDroughtEndsHERE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 64
vCash: 500
"Not enough depth yet"

Damien Cox via twitter: To get Jordan Staal the Maple Leafs would have had to give up a good roster forward, the #5 pick and their best non-NHL defenseman prospect. They donít have the depth yet to do that.

Cox thinks we don't have enough depth to pull off a trade for a J.Staal, Ryan, Getzlaf, Nash, etc. I know it's just his opinion, and alot of people on here do not like or respect his opinions, but he does make a good point that other GMs may feel the Leafs just do not have the quality players/prospects needed to make a blockbuster deal, and the few we do have (Gardiner, Kessel, Lupul, Kadri) we can't afford to part with.

So what does everyone think? Is Cox talking out of his *** again or does he make a valid point? If his comments are true, we could be looking at another 2 or 3 years with a lottery pick.

TheDroughtEndsHERE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 04:44 PM
  #2
Edgeworth*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,847
vCash: 500
He's right. We don't have enough depth to make a trade to secure a top player. But look at Carolina, they gave up a very very very good forward and a high pick along wiht a good prospect, their fans aren't terribly happy over what they gave up. Toronto could have made that trade but Burke would be burnt in effigy.

Edgeworth* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 04:46 PM
  #3
thebluemachine*
go ahead, do it
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,193
vCash: 500
We had the depth to acquire him but Jordan wanted to play in Carolina. Simple as that. Would have been a waste, like Cox.

thebluemachine* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 04:48 PM
  #4
ThreeHundred
Registered User
 
ThreeHundred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 2,066
vCash: 500
Would you trade Kessel for a #1 Center?

ThreeHundred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 04:49 PM
  #5
FishManSam
Bobs Yummy Burgers!
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: I Bet You Hate T.O
Country: Croatia
Posts: 5,248
vCash: 500
We'd be looking at losing Kulemin, Rielly and Blacker. I'm not willing to give that up for J.Staal.

FishManSam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 04:51 PM
  #6
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDroughtEndsHERE View Post
Damien Cox via twitter: To get Jordan Staal the Maple Leafs would have had to give up a good roster forward, the #5 pick and their best non-NHL defenseman prospect. They donít have the depth yet to do that.

Cox thinks we don't have enough depth to pull off a trade for a J.Staal, Ryan, Getzlaf, Nash, etc. I know it's just his opinion, and alot of people on here do not like or respect his opinions, but he does make a good point that other GMs may feel the Leafs just do not have the quality players/prospects needed to make a blockbuster deal, and the few we do have (Gardiner, Kessel, Lupul, Kadri) we can't afford to part with.

So what does everyone think? Is Cox talking out of his *** again or does he make a valid point? If his comments are true, we could be looking at another 2 or 3 years with a lottery pick.
This is tricky to answer on a few levels
Did the leafs have the depth a few years back to acquire a smallish but extremely talented sniper in Kessel? Probably not and even though they have more depth now, the leafs still probably don't have the depth yet.

The issue for Burke is with that trade for Kessel, Burke committed to an accelerated retool (rather than becoming a contender by drafting and developing talent). But now he appears to indescive as to if he is retooling the team quickly or has come to his senses and realizes that he can't replicate Anaheim and needs to undertake a true "rebuilid".

And for me this whole thing is a bit of a cluster muck. The kessel trade, was fair in that a quality player was gained in exchange for two first and second. But depth wise the leafs should have probably tried to draft and stock their cupboards instead of trading for Kessel. [And no fault or dis respect to kessel who has played and met expectations. This is on Burke who lack and follow through of a strategy is starting to show].

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 04:52 PM
  #7
thebluemachine*
go ahead, do it
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,193
vCash: 500
We had the depth to acquire Mike Richards last year as well. Cox knows nothing.

thebluemachine* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 04:56 PM
  #8
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,988
vCash: 500
The best package I would offer up for guys like Bobby Ryan, Jordan Staal, or Ryan Getzlaf is any combination of the following:

Clarke MarArthur or Tyler Bozak
Luke Schenn or Carl Gunnarssoon or Cody Franson
Nazem Kadri or Joe Colborne
Some lower end prospect (Greg McKegg, Brad Ross, etc)

I'd give that up for Nash as well, but Columbus would have to take back a contract like Lombardi or Armstrong.

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 04:59 PM
  #9
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
We had the depth to acquire Mike Richards last year as well. Cox knows nothing.
Maybe, but we don't know. Toronto never really made an offer.

Kulemin and Kadri were Philly's starting point of a deal for Richards, not the whole package.

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 05:00 PM
  #10
thebluemachine*
go ahead, do it
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,193
vCash: 500
Oh look, Burke just put our depth to use.

thebluemachine* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 05:01 PM
  #11
Erza Scarlet
following the mantle
 
Erza Scarlet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Requiem
Posts: 8,289
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDroughtEndsHERE View Post
Damien Cox via twitter: To get Jordan Staal the Maple Leafs would have had to give up a good roster forward, the #5 pick and their best non-NHL defenseman prospect. They donít have the depth yet to do that.

Cox thinks we don't have enough depth to pull off a trade for a J.Staal, Ryan, Getzlaf, Nash, etc. I know it's just his opinion, and alot of people on here do not like or respect his opinions, but he does make a good point that other GMs may feel the Leafs just do not have the quality players/prospects needed to make a blockbuster deal, and the few we do have (Gardiner, Kessel, Lupul, Kadri) we can't afford to part with.

So what does everyone think? Is Cox talking out of his *** again or does he make a valid point? If his comments are true, we could be looking at another 2 or 3 years with a lottery pick.
He's right. We don't have the highend assets (although in a year or two we should have it). There isn't much assets on the current roster that's desirable and the one's we don't want to move (Kessel, Gardiner). Until guys like ross, d'amigo suit up and become good players in their roles, we just have to live with it.

Erza Scarlet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 05:02 PM
  #12
jgravessimcoe
Registered User
 
jgravessimcoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: niagara
Posts: 473
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDroughtEndsHERE View Post
So what does everyone think? Is Cox talking out of his *** again or does he make a valid point? If his comments are true, we could be looking at another 2 or 3 years with a lottery pick.
He's not talking out of his ass. He's right. He usually is, TML fans just have a hard time with the literal truth sometimes. He doesn't sugarcoat, and for a fanbase who's been tormented as much as we have, I can understand how people have averse reactions to his brutal honesty.

However, I think you're wrong to correlate poor organizational depth with how a team finishes in a given year. You can ice a solid team without having anything coming up in the pipes.

The leafs are slowly getting there though. BB's one accomplishment at this point is improvement in the cupboard. Its a half-decade process to get organizational depth up to snuff.

jgravessimcoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 05:06 PM
  #13
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDroughtEndsHERE View Post
Damien Cox via twitter: To get Jordan Staal the Maple Leafs would have had to give up a good roster forward, the #5 pick and their best non-NHL defenseman prospect. They donít have the depth yet to do that.

Cox thinks we don't have enough depth to pull off a trade for a J.Staal, Ryan, Getzlaf, Nash, etc. I know it's just his opinion, and alot of people on here do not like or respect his opinions, but he does make a good point that other GMs may feel the Leafs just do not have the quality players/prospects needed to make a blockbuster deal, and the few we do have (Gardiner, Kessel, Lupul, Kadri) we can't afford to part with.

So what does everyone think? Is Cox talking out of his *** again or does he make a valid point? If his comments are true, we could be looking at another 2 or 3 years with a lottery pick.
Toronto needed to offer better than what Carolina did, think about that for a second.

Burke said he has the depth to make trades.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2012, 05:12 PM
  #14
thebluemachine*
go ahead, do it
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,193
vCash: 500
Thread title is misleading.

thebluemachine* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 08:40 AM
  #15
hullsy47
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Thread title is misleading.
we really dont have the assets ........we lost out when burke couldnt sign nash as an UFA .....getting connolly and resigning liles ,wouldve equalled nash and jvr...your prospects can be sugar coated all u want ,gardiner is the best we have to offer ,but hes also a top 4 d man on the leafs .....i think its gonna be up to carlyle to get this team in the platoffs because i cant see the cap room nor assets to make a real big splash

hullsy47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 08:51 AM
  #16
eyeball11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hullsy47 View Post
we really dont have the assets ........we lost out when burke couldnt sign nash as an UFA .....getting connolly and resigning liles ,wouldve equalled nash and jvr...your prospects can be sugar coated all u want ,gardiner is the best we have to offer ,but hes also a top 4 d man on the leafs .....i think its gonna be up to carlyle to get this team in the platoffs because i cant see the cap room nor assets to make a real big splash
You would advocate a bigger contract for Nash than his current one?

eyeball11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 08:55 AM
  #17
TieClark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,107
vCash: 500
Disagree with him. It likely would have cost us the 5th, someone like Kulemin and a prospect like Blacker. We have that, we can afford to give that as long as we knew he was going to re-sign with us. We didn't know that, Carolina does.

TieClark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 08:58 AM
  #18
hullsy47
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
You would advocate a bigger contract for Nash than his current one?
hed be our best forward .....u think kessel is gonna resingn for under 6-6.5 mill?id take nash over kessel any day of the week .now to get nash we gotta give up gardiner ,plus plus .......thats what im advocating ....but fair question

hullsy47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 09:03 AM
  #19
eyeball11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hullsy47 View Post
hed be our best forward .....u think kessel is gonna resingn for under 6-6.5 mill?id take nash over kessel any day of the week .now to get nash we gotta give up gardiner ,plus plus .......thats what im advocating ....but fair question
You would have had to have paid him $8 M+ for 8 years. I know he's been on a bad team but he's been a 70 point player once in his career.

eyeball11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 09:09 AM
  #20
forsberg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hullsy47 View Post
id take nash over kessel any day of the week
lol no

forsberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 09:31 AM
  #21
Leafsdude7
Stand-Up Philosopher
 
Leafsdude7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,579
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Leafsdude7 Send a message via MSN to Leafsdude7 Send a message via Yahoo to Leafsdude7
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishManSam View Post
We'd be looking at losing Kulemin, Rielly and Blacker. I'm not willing to give that up for J.Staal.
If that was enough to get Staal, I'd have done it in a heartbeat.

Sadly, only an idiot would take that trade over Sutter/Dumoulin/Pouliot, mostly because Sutter vs Kulemin is a massacre.

Leafsdude7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 09:35 AM
  #22
ITM
Registered User
 
ITM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 958
vCash: 500
The depth we lacked was not having Eric Stall.

ITM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 09:38 AM
  #23
JackJ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hullsy47 View Post
id take nash over kessel any day of the week
Agreed. Wonder if the Blue Jackets would take Kessel straight up. Nash is the better player but his contract reduces his overall value. Even trade IMO.

Nash fits the Carlye/Burke vision, Kessel doesn't.

JackJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 09:39 AM
  #24
Busher Jackson
4x 1st Team Allstar
 
Busher Jackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDroughtEndsHERE View Post
Damien Cox via twitter: To get Jordan Staal the Maple Leafs would have had to give up a good roster forward, the #5 pick and their best non-NHL defenseman prospect. They donít have the depth yet to do that.

Cox thinks we don't have enough depth to pull off a trade for a J.Staal, Ryan, Getzlaf, Nash, etc. I know it's just his opinion, and alot of people on here do not like or respect his opinions, but he does make a good point that other GMs may feel the Leafs just do not have the quality players/prospects needed to make a blockbuster deal, and the few we do have (Gardiner, Kessel, Lupul, Kadri) we can't afford to part with.

So what does everyone think? Is Cox talking out of his *** again or does he make a valid point? If his comments are true, we could be looking at another 2 or 3 years with a lottery pick.
Cox is wrong as usual. As Burke said " We didn't have a brother named Staal."

If the leafs gave up a 5th, Kulemin and Blacker/Percy Burke would have done that deal in a heart beat. But Staal wanted Carolina. Thats all there is to it.

Busher Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2012, 09:43 AM
  #25
Busher Jackson
4x 1st Team Allstar
 
Busher Jackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsdude7 View Post
If that was enough to get Staal, I'd have done it in a heartbeat.

Sadly, only an idiot would take that trade over Sutter/Dumoulin/Pouliot, mostly because Sutter vs Kulemin is a massacre.
Not a massacre at all, Sutter hasn't shown the same offensive ability . But Rielly over Pouliot is a big difference and Blacker vs Dumoulin, same draft round (2) 2009, probably a sawoff.

Busher Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:42 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.