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Ownership Cluster**** Thread: Same ********, Different 2 Weeks

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06-19-2012, 04:28 PM
  #1
Colt45Blast
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Ownership Cluster**** Thread: Same ********, Different 2 Weeks

Continue here from the last thread

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...185497&page=41

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06-19-2012, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
In Glendale, they will need just over 1,900 signatures which is 10% of the registered voters for the last mayoral election.
Right, but I am saying you need more than just 1,900 because a large portion of signatures will be invalidated. So 3,000 should be the target to meet the 1,900 minimum.

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06-19-2012, 04:35 PM
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Judge confirms Glendale's Phoenix Coyotes deal not immediately effective

Glendale must strike emergency clause from arena deal

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...#ixzz1yHGK8EnF

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06-19-2012, 05:24 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTippett
seriously who yelled **** you? wouldnt be anyone from HF here now would it?
Wasn't me. (I live in the East Valley - too far to drive )

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06-19-2012, 05:29 PM
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Critics want to take Glendale-Coyotes' pact to November ballot
Quote:
Deal opponents have taken out petitions and have 30 days from the June 8 council vote to collect 1,862 signatures to get a Coyotes deal referendum on the November ballot. A city official said it’s too late to put a Coyotes referendum on the August 28 city primary ballot.

The move could essentially kill Jamison’s bid to buy the team from the National Hockey League either buy squelching the favorable arena deal or scaring off investors by dragging out the process. “That’s their real goal,” said one official familiar with the Coyotes deal.

Goldwater is not likely to appeal Fink’s ruling if it goes against them.
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...ke.html?page=2

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Old
06-19-2012, 05:35 PM
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This is what is of concern to me. lets assume the opposition gathers the required signatures, frankly it's not hard to find 2,000 residence that are [misplaced] pissed off * cough cough* tea party, that will sign that. I really believe that it's not hard to get people in Glendale all riled up about taxes going up and loss of service to vote against the deal. Regardless how much we all understand the complexity; the optics of the voting public tend to be much simpler. They see taxes go up and the City "bailing out" a hockey team.

FASCINATING DETAIL:
Now what I don't know is whats the cuttoff to get on the ballot? it wont make the Aug 28th primary date so the next date is Nov 6th General. I think they have 6mo from the time the pull the petition to collect signature. Pretty sure signatures would have to be turned in roughly 3mo before the scheduled election. Which takes us to the end of July (more or less). That is about 4 or 5 weeks to collect roughly $2k worth of signatures.

Opposition could take longer but what happens if they dont submit by end of July deadline (and I'm guesstimating on that deadline) is that the referendum WONT make the Nov City ballot. The next CITY WIDE election will be August 29th 2016. I'm fairly sure they don't call a special election JUST to vote on this, they only occur when the City holds their election. 2 years from now only three districts vote, Mayorial elections are the only City wide election Glendale holds and those are every 4 years.

We stand great odds if this is pushed out 4 years; GJ owns the team, economy is better, Tea Party narative dies down. It bodes better for us.

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06-19-2012, 05:52 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTippett View Post
This is what is of concern to me. lets assume the opposition gathers the required signatures, frankly it's not hard to find 2,000 residence that are [misplaced] pissed off * cough cough* tea party, that will sign that. I really believe that it's not hard to get people in Glendale all riled up about taxes going up and loss of service to vote against the deal. Regardless how much we all understand the complexity; the optics of the voting public tend to be much simpler. They see taxes go up and the City "bailing out" a hockey team.

FASCINATING DETAIL:
Now what I don't know is whats the cuttoff to get on the ballot? it wont make the Aug 28th primary date so the next date is Nov 6th General. I think they have 6mo from the time the pull the petition to collect signature. Pretty sure signatures would have to be turned in roughly 3mo before the scheduled election. Which takes us to the end of July (more or less). That is about 4 or 5 weeks to collect roughly $2k worth of signatures.

Opposition could take longer but what happens if they dont submit by end of July deadline (and I'm guesstimating on that deadline) is that the referendum WONT make the Nov City ballot. The next CITY WIDE election will be August 29th 2016. I'm fairly sure they don't call a special election JUST to vote on this, they only occur when the City holds their election. 2 years from now only three districts vote, Mayorial elections are the only City wide election Glendale holds and those are every 4 years.

We stand great odds if this is pushed out 4 years; GJ owns the team, economy is better, Tea Party narative dies down. It bodes better for us.
They have until July 5th to get the signatures necessary to get in on the November ballot. If they do not collect the necessary signatures by July 8th, they can get the matter referred at all....period.

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06-19-2012, 05:53 PM
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If I were you guys, I would start collecting signatures right now.

This issue is going to a referendum: the best you can do is get your wording on the ballot rather than GWI's.

There's a difference between:

"This bill will ensure that the Coyotes stay and guarentee (insert most optimistic economic forecast here ) in revenue for the Westgate area while ensuring 40+ dates a year."

vs.

"This bill will raise your taxes and cost the city (insert most pessimistic economic forecast here)."

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06-19-2012, 05:54 PM
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WAIT WAIT WAIT! The Opposition has 30 days from the JUNE 8th meeting? thats AWESOME!! When did they pull the petitioner request? Because 30 days from June 8th is July 9th (technically the 8th) thats 19 days from today to get 2k worth of signatures? hahahah that ain't happening. hell people running for Congress take 3 months to collect 1800 or so signatures. Keep in mind they have to collect 2k (1800) from VALID Glendale registered voters. this is where standing out front of a grocery store doesn't prove to be effective. You have no way of knowing who is and isnt registered to vote.

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06-19-2012, 05:57 PM
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If they do get the referendum on the ballot, is the NHL and GJ going to wait until the results of the vote?

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06-19-2012, 06:00 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTippett View Post
This is what is of concern to me. lets assume the opposition gathers the required signatures, frankly it's not hard to find 2,000 residence that are [misplaced] pissed off * cough cough* tea party, that will sign that. I really believe that it's not hard to get people in Glendale all riled up about taxes going up and loss of service to vote against the deal. Regardless how much we all understand the complexity; the optics of the voting public tend to be much simpler. They see taxes go up and the City "bailing out" a hockey team.

FASCINATING DETAIL:
Now what I don't know is whats the cuttoff to get on the ballot? it wont make the Aug 28th primary date so the next date is Nov 6th General. I think they have 6mo from the time the pull the petition to collect signature. Pretty sure signatures would have to be turned in roughly 3mo before the scheduled election. Which takes us to the end of July (more or less). That is about 4 or 5 weeks to collect roughly $2k worth of signatures.

Opposition could take longer but what happens if they dont submit by end of July deadline (and I'm guesstimating on that deadline) is that the referendum WONT make the Nov City ballot. The next CITY WIDE election will be August 29th 2016. I'm fairly sure they don't call a special election JUST to vote on this, they only occur when the City holds their election. 2 years from now only three districts vote, Mayorial elections are the only City wide election Glendale holds and those are every 4 years.

We stand great odds if this is pushed out 4 years; GJ owns the team, economy is better, Tea Party narative dies down. It bodes better for us.


News of the future:

"Maricopa County Recorder invalidated tea party petitions today due massive problems with invalid signatures such as Ima Foni, Goldie W. Suggsdic, Flint Bollucks, Dagwood Oldsen, Q. Becky Quackers, T.P. Artie, Nord Deeks, Noah Deeks, Clammy Bawles, and others."

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Old
06-19-2012, 06:01 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
In Glendale, they will need just over 1,900 signatures which is 10% of the registered voters for the last mayoral election.
So there are only 19,000 registered voters in Glendale?

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06-19-2012, 06:03 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTippett View Post
WAIT WAIT WAIT! The Opposition has 30 days from the JUNE 8th meeting? thats AWESOME!! When did they pull the petitioner request? Because 30 days from June 8th is July 9th (technically the 8th) thats 19 days from today to get 2k worth of signatures? hahahah that ain't happening. hell people running for Congress take 3 months to collect 1800 or so signatures. Keep in mind they have to collect 2k (1800) from VALID Glendale registered voters. this is where standing out front of a grocery store doesn't prove to be effective. You have no way of knowing who is and isnt registered to vote.
I would wager it will happen. They will get their 2,000+ signatures. The tea party, the tax institute, and GWI faithful will be out in mass to get the signatures. Heck, even the Chamber came out against the tax increases, so certainly some business owners not around Westgate may support the referendum. It will not be a hard sell to refer the matter to the voters. I'm not so sure the refenendum will pass, but this matter is going to be referred to the voters. I just wonder why the CoG didn't at least try to defend the emergency clause.

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06-19-2012, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
So there are only 19,000 registered voters in Glendale?
10% of the 19,000 registered voters (the number who voted in the last mayoral election).

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06-19-2012, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
So there are only 19,000 registered voters in Glendale?
edit: deleted

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06-19-2012, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yotesreign View Post


News of the future:

"Maricopa County Recorder invalidated tea party petitions today due massive problems with invalid signatures such as Ima Foni, Goldie W. Suggsdic, Flint Bollucks, Dagwood Oldsen, Q. Becky Quackers, T.P. Artie, Nord Deeks, Noah Deeks, Clammy Bawles, and others."
It's rare for me to be in Glendale when hockey is not in season but if I catch wind of them trying to get signatures somewhere, I just might have to go "help out". hehe

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06-19-2012, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
10% of the 19,000 registered voters (the number who voted in the last mayoral election).
Aahh ok, that makes more sense.


Last edited by Sinurgy: 06-19-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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Old
06-19-2012, 06:15 PM
  #18
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Can somebody give me an update on what's happened (if anything has), since Bettman/Jamison had the meaningless press conference before the playoff game?

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06-19-2012, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
I would wager it will happen. They will get their 2,000+ signatures. The tea party, the tax institute, and GWI faithful will be out in mass to get the signatures. Heck, even the Chamber came out against the tax increases, so certainly some business owners not around Westgate may support the referendum. It will not be a hard sell to refer the matter to the voters. I'm not so sure the refenendum will pass, but this matter is going to be referred to the voters. I just wonder why the CoG didn't at least try to defend the emergency clause.
I am concerned that if this lasts until after new officials are elected, the officials will turn around and vote against the deal.

If I am CoG, I am going to take out some commercial time with Joyce Clark, basically stating the obvious: taxes would be raised if the team stays or goes. Would you rather have no tenant (which affects surrounding businesses) and having to pay $10 million on a lease, or pay $15 million (down to $12-13 million over a few years) and,have the stadium and surrounding businesses be able to add more revenue from taxes. Tanger is a good selling point for people on vacation that are going to games. If the team is not,here, Tanger also gets a little bit of the shaft. It is also not like payments aren't going to be made back to the city. It is a matter of how much at certain times, and I think that if any details are revealed to qualm fear, then that is the best approach....

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06-19-2012, 06:53 PM
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Either way i guess we are losing Ray Whitney and Shane Doan at the very least. Doesn't look like this can be wrapped up before July 1st, right?

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06-19-2012, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTippett View Post
This is what is of concern to me. lets assume the opposition gathers the required signatures, frankly it's not hard to find 2,000 residence that are [misplaced] pissed off * cough cough* tea party, that will sign that. I really believe that it's not hard to get people in Glendale all riled up about taxes going up and loss of service to vote against the deal. Regardless how much we all understand the complexity; the optics of the voting public tend to be much simpler. They see taxes go up and the City "bailing out" a hockey team.

FASCINATING DETAIL:
Now what I don't know is whats the cuttoff to get on the ballot? it wont make the Aug 28th primary date so the next date is Nov 6th General. I think they have 6mo from the time the pull the petition to collect signature. Pretty sure signatures would have to be turned in roughly 3mo before the scheduled election. Which takes us to the end of July (more or less). That is about 4 or 5 weeks to collect roughly $2k worth of signatures.

Opposition could take longer but what happens if they dont submit by end of July deadline (and I'm guesstimating on that deadline) is that the referendum WONT make the Nov City ballot. The next CITY WIDE election will be August 29th 2016. I'm fairly sure they don't call a special election JUST to vote on this, they only occur when the City holds their election. 2 years from now only three districts vote, Mayorial elections are the only City wide election Glendale holds and those are every 4 years.

We stand great odds if this is pushed out 4 years; GJ owns the team, economy is better, Tea Party narative dies down. It bodes better for us.
I doubt it would wait until 2016.

Mayor and council members are not the only offices on the ballot. There are local things like school boards, etc - as well as county, state and congressional races where all Glendale voters vote.

Looking at the AZ Republics election results, I see referendums in Glendale in 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2002, & 2001 - as well as even more for the school districts.

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06-19-2012, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
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I doubt it would wait until 2016.

Mayor and council members are not the only offices on the ballot. There are local things like school boards, etc - as well as county, state and congressional races where all Glendale voters vote.

Looking at the AZ Republics election results, I see referendums in Glendale in 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2002, & 2001 - as well as even more for the school districts.
no but this is a city matter and thus can only be conducted by the City. The City of Glendale pays the County Recorder to hold their elections, now as a result of that there are other cadiadates that appear on the ballot (senator, rep school board et al). but the only CITY WIDE election takes place every 4 years. Thats why i suspect the 30 day window. July 9th must be the last day to collect petions for the Nov general.

I'm beginning to think the delay on this vote was quite strategic by the City (genius). They knew the drop dead date for the Nov general was July (I think its July 5th according to the secretary of state). That gives NO time between June 9th and July to collect signatures. Glendale actually thought about this and had some strategy behind the timing

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06-19-2012, 07:32 PM
  #23
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One of the things from twitter today was a statement that it would be too hard to collect the required "valid" signatures within the allotted time. The individual sounded and looked credible saying it takes 3 months to get 1500 signatures. It depends on how mobilized the plaintiffs are and how quickly they can get ramped up. Logistics wins wars.

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06-19-2012, 07:37 PM
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So, who was the council member that was not present for the vote (i.e., the 7th member needed for an emergency measure)? Would he or she have voted for the deal?

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06-19-2012, 07:42 PM
  #25
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Quote:
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One of the things from twitter today was a statement that it would be too hard to collect the required "valid" signatures within the allotted time. The individual sounded and looked credible saying it takes 3 months to get 1500 signatures. It depends on how mobilized the plaintiffs are and how quickly they can get ramped up. Logistics wins wars.
Are they allowed to use signatures that may have been collected prior to today? Perhaps they've been planning on this and have a two week head start?

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