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All Bobby Ryan Talk - Bobb(y)ing for Ryan Part III

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Old
06-27-2012, 01:27 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by static80 View Post
Schenn is not better than Armia.
Coburn is not better than McNabb.
Ennis/Hodgson/Roy are not better than a 1st round pick
.

Since Armia and the 1st round pick have never seen NHL ice time, it's pretty self-explanatory as to why those 2 don't jive.
The Coburn is better than McNabb situation is speculative at best, given that McNabb hasn't played a full season in the NHL compared to Coburn's 5 full and 3 combined prior to that to make a mini season out of.

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06-27-2012, 01:27 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
I think you underestimate the market...
CBJ can't get less for Nash (young player + prospect + pick).

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06-27-2012, 01:28 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by static80 View Post
Schenn is not better than Armia.
Coburn is not better than McNabb.
Ennis/Hodgson/Roy are not better than a 1st round pick.


Since Armia and the 1st round pick have never seen NHL ice time, it's pretty self-explanatory as to why those 2 don't jive.
The Coburn is better than McNabb situation is speculative at best, given that McNabb hasn't played a full season in the NHL compared to Coburn's 5 full and 3 combined prior to that to make a mini season out of.
I thought I understood what you were trying (unsuccessfully) to do in the first two...but then you went off the deep end.

You realize that your analysis basically confirmed what the poster wrote, right?

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06-27-2012, 01:29 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Except there is no evidence, at all, that the Flyers offered either Schenn or Coburn, let alone both.
.
Hence "ASKING PRICE"

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06-27-2012, 01:29 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Would want

McNabb
Armia
Ennis/Hodgson/Roy

return from Buffalo
That's not going to happen. Maybe Ennis and one of McNabb or Armia, but even I doubt that happens. Darcy overvalues his players far too much. Murray won't get that much from Buffalo, and he shouldn't trade for less than that IMO.

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06-27-2012, 01:30 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I thought I understood what you were trying (unsuccessfully) to do in the first two...but then you went off the deep end.

You realize that your analysis basically confirmed what the poster wrote, right?
No, but I can't wait for you to "attempt" to enlighten me.

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06-27-2012, 01:30 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by teemuselanne View Post
Then you're not going to get him with the **** you're offering, simple as that.
Because Hodgson and young d-man is terrible return...

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06-27-2012, 01:31 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Hence "ASKING PRICE"
But what's the point of comparing a hypothetical asking price to a rumored offer?

If I said, the Ducks want Giroux, so they wouldn't accept a package of Schenn, Voracek, and a 1st, does that in any way make for a fruitful discussion?

Doesn't it make more sense to compare the proposal from Buffalo to both the Ducks presumed needs and previous precedent than to just pick 3 pieces out of the air and set them up as some sort of threshold?

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06-27-2012, 01:31 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
What market? When was the last time a "Bobby Ryan" was traded for these insane packages? If the "market" for Ryan was so incredible he would have been dealt by now.
A Jeff Carter return is what ANA should be looking at: Young NHL player with upside + 1st round pick + 2nd or 3rd round pick

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06-27-2012, 01:32 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by static80 View Post
No, but I can't wait for you to "attempt" to enlighten me.
You're beyond help.

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06-27-2012, 01:33 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
There is no logic and very little fact in an HF argument -- only blind homerism to support your cause. It's so blatant and annoying that most times the posters even know what they are spewing is wrong -- they still do it to get a rise out of others -- or make others present facts. What it all adds up to is very little maturity on these boards.

Kessel is the better player and it isn't close.
This is where I have to call 'Crazy Talk' on the matter...Sure, Kessel had a much better season last year than Ryan did, but 1 season doesn't make a player. Let's compare the past 4 seasons, shall we? Their numbers are almost identical if you do the comparison, yet you're going to say it isn't even close? Sure...

Last 4 season statistics...despite Ryan having quite a bit less goals and assists last year, he's still almost even with Kessel over the past 4 years, which should say something about Ryan having been the better player up until last season.

Ryan - 131 goals 118 assists 249 points +38 309 games
Kessel - 135 goals 126 assists 261 points -15 304 gams

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06-27-2012, 01:34 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
A Jeff Carter return is what ANA should be looking at: Young NHL player with upside + 1st round pick + 2nd or 3rd round pick
Exactly. IF that. Jeff Carter had a 46 goal / 84 point season on his resume. Last time I checked, Ryan does not.

And Voracek, 1st and 2nd does NOT equal...

McNabb (blue chip D prospect)
Armia (elite F prospect)
Hodgson/Stafford/Ennis/Roy (established NHLers)

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Old
06-27-2012, 01:35 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by static80 View Post
No, but I can't wait for you to "attempt" to enlighten me.
Armia hasn't even played a NHL game yet, you're basically assuming he will be better than Schenn(Luke or Brayden??) immediately.

Coburn is a very good defenseman, he is much better than McNabb at this moment.

And Ennis/Roy/Hodgson are all worth more than a 1st... You basically got the reverse direction on every single one...

As Snotbubbles said, a Carter like return is what Murray should be looking for, but then again not all GM's are Scott Howson.

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06-27-2012, 01:36 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
You're beyond help.


Actually, since none of us are GM's, it's all opinion based, I was merely waiting for the poster to try and "educate me" given that his response was merely opinion as well.

That's the funny thing about opinions, and of course, we could always throw in the "everyone has one" cliche'.

But in the end, many teams have packages they could present for Bobby Ryan's services, no one package is better than another because we just don't know, none of us do, what Murray will receive.

The point is, all this "my package is better than yours" doesn't move the conversation between Ducks fans and other teams fans forward, it more often than not turns a proposal between fans thread into a Hulk Hands posting match.

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06-27-2012, 01:37 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
A Jeff Carter return is what ANA should be looking at: Young NHL player with upside + 1st round pick + 2nd or 3rd round pick
Carter's market was limited due to the length of contract.

Ryan should net more than Jordan Staal as well and his market was Carolina and Carolina only.

Those would be baseline deals for Ryan. It's not crazy to think Ryan should net at least one more significant piece or higher end talent in return. 25yr old proven power forward and a sweetheart contract. His suitors go through the roof.

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06-27-2012, 01:45 PM
  #991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by static80 View Post
Schenn is not better than Armia.
Coburn is not better than McNabb.
Ennis/Hodgson/Roy are not better than a 1st round pick.
Schenn has more value than Armia. Don't even kid yourself.

Young blueliner with 3 seasons under his belt, with 1 of them being a really good one are worth more than top prospects.

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06-27-2012, 02:01 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
the rumored asking price Anaheim wanted from Philly

Schenn > Armia
Coburn > McNabb
1st =< Ennis/Hodgson/Roy

Buffalo is getting a discount.
Anaheim can ask whatever they want, but if thats what they came up with its not suprising the deal never happend... Thats a ridiculous overpayment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by static80 View Post
Schenn is not better than Armia.
Coburn is not better than McNabb.
Ennis/Hodgson/Roy are not better than a 1st round pick.


Wait, you're serious?

Your value is way off on all 3 accounts.

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06-27-2012, 02:05 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Carter's market was limited due to the length of contract.

Ryan should net more than Jordan Staal as well and his market was Carolina and Carolina only.

Those would be baseline deals for Ryan. It's not crazy to think Ryan should net at least one more significant piece or higher end talent in return. 25yr old proven power forward and a sweetheart contract. His suitors go through the roof.
Link?

No doubt Jordan is happy with his destination, but how can you possibly say Carolina was the only market? I can guarentee several teams were interested, but Carolina was able to provide a replacement to keep the Penguins strong down the middle + a top 10 pick...

I would guess their value is pretty close, but you really need to stop making things up... If you're going to present these as fact, you need to provide a link to substantiate them.

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06-27-2012, 02:12 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Link?

No doubt Jordan is happy with his destination, but how can you possibly say Carolina was the only market? I can guarentee several teams were interested, but Carolina was able to provide a replacement to keep the Penguins strong down the middle + a top 10 pick...

I would guess their value is pretty close, but you really need to stop making things up... If you're going to present these as fact, you need to provide a link to substantiate them.
Jordan Staal to 28 teams = 1 year rental
Jordan Staal to Car or Rangers = long term acquisition

So Carolina and Rangers were the only teams willing to give long term value for him. Everyone else would have been a rental. Ryan on the other hand has 3 years left on a cheap contract and no NMC.

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06-27-2012, 02:22 PM
  #995
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
Saw on our boards earlier, total hypothetical. If Nash goes to SJ for Pavelski Clowe and a first, would ANA accept Tytuin/Moore plus la1st and SJ 1st for Ryan?
That's making a huge -and unlikely to happen - assumption that Murray would deal Ryan to a team in his division.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus Teemu View Post
Sabres fans won't want to hear this, but I'd bet on Murray asking for Hodgson.
Quote:
Originally Posted by static80 View Post
And as a Sabres fan I'd be fine with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
tbh, would rather trade Hodgson than Ennis or Grigorenko, though I don't speak for Darcy...
Agreed - aside from all of the hype that the Canadian media put on Hodgson in Vancouver, he hasn't really produced enough or been around long enough to guarantee stardom of a top # 1 center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
Online, (twitter, boards, etc) then the radio picks up on it. We've been rumored to be interested in seasons past.
Just because the WGR morning hosts latch onto every idle, unsupported theory campaigned by Eklund doesn't mean there's more credibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Anaheim would need to take a little more cap back, and I think McNabb > the difference in value between Hodgson and Ryan. Hodgson + Leopold + Adam for Ryan??
That would be more than fair - two top prospects and a veteran defenseman for depth makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Ennis is the better player of the two.
I wouldn't generically qualify either as being "better" - but I do think there is a higher upside to Ennis than there is to Hodgson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Would want

McNabb
Armia
Ennis/Hodgson/Roy

return from Buffalo
If Roy were an acceptable alternative to either Ennis or Hodgson, you can bet that the Sabres would jump on that option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Bobby Ryan is not worth 2 blue chip prospects and a very good young player, sorry. Let's get real with these Bobby Ryan offers, he's not Guy Lafleur.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
I think you underestimate the market...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Darcy overvalues his players far too much.
Traditionally, yes - but he was long enamored with Kassian and said how he'd be a foundation piece for the future. Yet, when a top end target like Hodgson became available, he was willing to deal him.

The question is how much value Regier attributes to Ryan; given that Ryan is only 25 and has power forward-type size and speed while being a proven offensive performer - all on a reasonable long-term contract - I'd be willing to bet that Regier recognizes that players like Ryan with those qualities are rare and thus worthy of a strong return.

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06-27-2012, 02:34 PM
  #996
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To Carolina:
Ryan

To Anaheim:
Skinner
McBain

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06-27-2012, 02:35 PM
  #997
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
To Carolina:
Ryan

To Anaheim:
Skinner
McBain
Why would Carolina do that?

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06-27-2012, 02:38 PM
  #998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Carter's market was limited due to the length of contract.

Ryan should net more than Jordan Staal as well and his market was Carolina and Carolina only.

Those would be baseline deals for Ryan. It's not crazy to think Ryan should net at least one more significant piece or higher end talent in return. 25yr old proven power forward and a sweetheart contract. His suitors go through the roof.

I really do not think Carter's contract was a significant issue. He's young, physical, scores goals, defensibly responsible, players center or wing, and is signed to a good caphit through his prime years. Honestly, Ryan's value is probably quite close to what Richards or Carter got. Yes, he's younger, and a prove 30-goal scorer, but I do not think that is enough set his value apart from Richard's and Carter's.

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06-27-2012, 02:42 PM
  #999
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Why would Carolina do that?
Sell tickets, score goals, win games, make the playoffs consistantly.

Im not a fan of Skinners' game, wildly inconsistant, skates in circles, puck hog, etc..

Ryan is a powerforward who scores goals. He is an upgrade over Skinner. Carolina giving up McBain won't hurt too much, they have very good defenseive prospects,, Murphy should be up soon making his mark in Carolina.

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06-27-2012, 02:46 PM
  #1000
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Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher View Post
I really do not think Carter's contract was a significant issue. He's young, physical, scores goals, defensibly responsible, players center or wing, and is signed to a good caphit through his prime years. Honestly, Ryan's value is probably quite close to what Richards or Carter got. Yes, he's younger, and a prove 30-goal scorer, but I do not think that is enough set his value apart from Richard's and Carter's.
I agree, but those were very nice packages that they got for those two.

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