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All Bobby Ryan Talk - Bobb(y)ing for Ryan Part III

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Old
06-24-2012, 03:02 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
...and an opinion that will probably be validated by NHL GMs when Ryan is traded for something far less than you'll deem satisfactory.
How about you listen to what she said? It was very specifically directed at needs and NOT value.

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06-24-2012, 03:06 AM
  #127
Trance Kuja
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
If talking him down means giving my take on his game, then okay.
He's a pretty good defensive player. So it seems like you're talking him down. And that paragraph about him dangling is one person's take. I've watched many, many Ducks games and that's not all he does. I've seen him make great plays, though I wouldn't call him a playmaker.

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06-24-2012, 03:06 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Just as an example, although it isn't quite the same thing, here's a Ducks fan's thoughts on Ryan.
If you're trying to persuade anyone from our board, then Anaheim Calling is the last thing you should bring up to do that.

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06-24-2012, 03:08 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Who said I was insulted? I just listed the statistics. The fact that the other guys are better in points means they are better setup guys. And the numbers say Kane, Hossa, Kessel, and Eriksson aren't really in a different category than Ryan was all I was showing. Discussing intangibles is stupid IMO, nobody ever agrees.
Well, obviously a bunch of people here did take offense to that comment.

The fact that other guys get more points tends, along with the fact that most of them are better without the puck, means that they're better players, especially because on that list, most of the guys score nearly as many goals as Ryan does.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that most, if not all of those guys, are better players today than Bobby Ryan. Obviously, that's my opinion and you don't have to agree. For what it's worth, the current HF top forwards poll is up to #27. All or most of those guys have already been voted as part of the top 26. Ryan is still out there, and it doesn't appear that he's one of the next to win a vote. I don't agree with some of the individual rankings, but more or less, I think the poll is pretty accurate.

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06-24-2012, 03:09 AM
  #130
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Like I said above, I wasn't being serious. I'm still waiting to see how you proved me wrong. As far as class, I don't see anything of the sort coming from you and your unwarranted attitude.


If talking him down means giving my take on his game, then okay.

Just as an example, although it isn't quite the same thing, here's a Ducks fan's thoughts on Ryan.

This makes no mention of his lack of defensive accumen, but it speaks to his consistency issues, particularly when it comes to effectively using his size and strength. He doesn't do so nearly enough. He does it sometimes, but too often he tries to fancy his way to the scoresheet.

Again, that's not enough of a drawback to deter me. I want him on my team, and I'm willing to give up one of my team's best players for him, but that doesn't mean that I'm not cognizant of his several, very real flaws as a player.
I said you're offering scraps... you said you weren't... I posted your previous statements as to what was available and said how they are scraps to the ducks... you came back with insults.

Also, I'm not the one who is trying to downplay a player's talent so that I can sell him for less than he's worth to the fans of the opposing teams... you and iamitter can keep pulling frustrated comments from hfboards and the blogs about how horrible he is but that doesn't detract from the numbers he's put up that puts him in the same category as the other "elite" players you mentioned.

You can mention who Sather has said is untouchable, the ducks fans will counter with what Murray has said in interviews from last Bobby-gate as to what he wants in return and they don't match up. So you can come up with as many insults as you want about me and the ducks management until your fingers are bleeding... the fact of the matter is we obviously aren't good trading partners so why don't you move along?

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06-24-2012, 03:10 AM
  #131
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I don't need to. I have enough common sense to know that a 70 point multi-dimensional winger who plays above average defense, is as consistent as they come, is not hindered by being undersized, and is a consummate professional is going to be valued higher than relatively one-dimensional winger who scores 65-70 points, does not play defense, is not consistent, and fails to use the god given size and strength he has as often as he should.

Ryan is so big, so strong, and so talented that despite some of those drawbacks, he's still a top 15-20 winger in the league. Eriksson is without a doubt a top 10 winger, and his value is incredibly high.
Ryan is not 1 dimensional, he is by no means an elite 2 way player but he is atleast above average all the offensive things you say about Ryan, is without him getting any high quality PP mins. Most of the time he would be stuck with Koivu and either Jason Blake or Andrew Cogliano and Sbisa......none of those guys are high quality offensive players now in our situation that's where he's stuck b/c Perry and Selanne are both great PP wingers and even with all this he's a year removed being top 5 in ES scoring. He's a pretty physical player who can dish out punishing hits....

regardless everyone here is missing the point, Anaheim doesn't have to, nor does it need to trade him. he has 3 more years on his contract, so nobody has any leverage against Anaheim, sorry.

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06-24-2012, 03:11 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Well, obviously a bunch of people here did take offense to that comment.

The fact that other guys get more points tends, along with the fact that most of them are better without the puck, means that they're better players, especially because on that list, most of the guys score nearly as many goals as Ryan does.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that most, if not all of those guys, are better players today than Bobby Ryan. Obviously, that's my opinion and you don't have to agree. For what it's worth, the current HF top forwards poll is up to #27. All or most of those guys have already been voted as part of the top 26. Ryan is still out there, and it doesn't appear that he's one of the next to win a vote. I don't agree with some of the individual rankings, but more or less, I think the poll is pretty accurate.


Just wanted to throw this out there for thought:

Ryan DOESN'T play on the 1st powerplay unit.

If he did, I'm guessing his point total would be a lot higher. Food for thought.

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06-24-2012, 03:12 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Like I said above, I wasn't being serious. I'm still waiting to see how you proved me wrong. As far as class, I don't see anything of the sort coming from you and your unwarranted attitude.




If talking him down means giving my take on his game, then okay.

Just as an example, although it isn't quite the same thing, here's a Ducks fan's thoughts on Ryan.



This makes no mention of his lack of defensive accumen, but it speaks to his consistency issues, particularly when it comes to effectively using his size and strength. He doesn't do so nearly enough. He does it sometimes, but too often he tries to fancy his way to the scoresheet.

Again, that's not enough of a drawback to deter me. I want him on my team, and I'm willing to give up one of my team's best players for him, but that doesn't mean that I'm not cognizant of his several, very real flaws as a player.

FYI - that blog is ridiculously biased and doesn't hold much, if any traction with most of the posters here. The guy has spent the entire day hammering away at how incompetent team management is for taking Lindholm where they did instead of trading down or (preferably) taking the prospects he determined were more worthy of being picked, despite a post from the director of scouting explaining they had good information that if they traded down another team would have taken Lindholm. Quoting a blogger is...silly.


I'm not saying the guy is a perfect wing, because he isn't. But he's not even remotely as bad as people are making out.

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06-24-2012, 03:13 AM
  #134
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I think the Ducks want Stepan+.
I'm well aware. And I've seen posters here say "maybe" to Stepan+Del Zotto+1st. The reality is Stepan is a catalyst to our second line right now and has proven chemistry with Kreider. Removing him straight up for Ryan only arguably makes us better as he is one of the better two-way guys on our team and makes our center depth after Richards Anismov, Boyle, Rupp. And the ducks won't want just Stepan.

Sting and I hypothetically put it out on the Rangers board that if, say, we managed to get a decent replacement like Roy on the cheap, Stepan might become available. As of right now, our GM (not me or any other poster here) has said Stepan won't be a part of any trade. I don't see why then stating this here makes us want Stepan for scraps. We are simply being realistic.

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06-24-2012, 03:14 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
How about you listen to what she said? It was very specifically directed at needs and NOT value.
I don't care what she said. I care about how she said it. Very disrespectful.

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Originally Posted by Trance Kuja View Post
He's a pretty good defensive player. So it seems like you're talking him down. And that paragraph about him dangling is one person's take. I've watched many, many Ducks games and that's not all he does. I've seen him make great plays, though I wouldn't call him a playmaker.
I've watched many, many Ducks games, too. I think he doesn't play any defense whatsoever. I think he, like many players in his mold, gives very minimal effort in the defensive zone. That doesn't bother me, because I think a good defensive team can handle a couple of guys who don't waste energy on defense and instead focus on scoring. But when you have a guy that can do both, he obviously has increased value.

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If you're trying to persuade anyone from our board, then Anaheim Calling is the last thing you should bring up to do that.
I'm not trying to persuade anyone of anything, I just don't appreciate being given attitude for no reason or when people accuse me of saying or doing things I didn't say or do. I don't even like Anaheim Calling, but in this case, I happen to agree. I think Ryan dangles too much and should use his size and strength more. Guess what? I think the same thing about a number of players on the Rangers, too. If someone said that about them, I wouldn't throw a hissy fit.

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06-24-2012, 03:16 AM
  #136
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So are the Ducks fans according to the needs of the team, Iamitter. I don't think the Ducks and Rangers are the best trading partners to be honest. Same thing with my Hawks.

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06-24-2012, 03:16 AM
  #137
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If you're trying to persuade anyone from our board, then Anaheim Calling is the last thing you should bring up to do that.
Quoting Anaheim Calling........might as well quote everything all the trolls here write....

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06-24-2012, 03:22 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Well, obviously a bunch of people here did take offense to that comment.

The fact that other guys get more points tends, along with the fact that most of them are better without the puck, means that they're better players, especially because on that list, most of the guys score nearly as many goals as Ryan does.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that most, if not all of those guys, are better players today than Bobby Ryan. Obviously, that's my opinion and you don't have to agree. For what it's worth, the current HF top forwards poll is up to #27. All or most of those guys have already been voted as part of the top 26. Ryan is still out there, and it doesn't appear that he's one of the next to win a vote. I don't agree with some of the individual rankings, but more or less, I think the poll is pretty accurate.
Well, I've been nothing but civil, there's no reason to be snippy with me.

And, as stated, Ryan would likely have a fair amount more goals and points if he played on the 1st power play the way the rest of those players do.

This would be the same group of HF posters who rank Hiller as significantly worse than Price despite him having better career numbers with the exception of when he had vertigo? Those are strongly skewed based on size of fan base, and are also heavily based on flavor of the week what have you done for me lately. You need to find a less biased source. Just because they agree with your opinions doesn't mean they are valid surveys.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I didnt even disagree with overall rankings, but I find irony in you saying you don't believe in arbitrary categories like "goal scoring winger" then going on to say he is less of a "two-way player", which is a far more arbitrary category. Especially since its his goal scoring that would make him a valuable asset for the Rangers.

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06-24-2012, 03:23 AM
  #139
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Lol using Anaheim calling as a feel for Ducks fans. You will see the biggest whiners on there. If it were up to those experts then we would be in Canada somewhere.

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06-24-2012, 03:31 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
I said you're offering scraps... you said you weren't... I posted your previous statements as to what was available and said how they are scraps to the ducks... you came back with insults.
Well, that's one incredibly inaccurate version of it. You're rude, and dishonest, as well. Your very first post towards me was nothing if not insulting.

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Also, I'm not the one who is trying to downplay a player's talent so that I can sell him for less than he's worth to the fans of the opposing teams... you and iamitter can keep pulling frustrated comments from hfboards and the blogs about how horrible he is but that doesn't detract from the numbers he's put up that puts him in the same category as the other "elite" players you mentioned.
I'm not trying to downplay anything, friend. I'm telling you what I think about a player. The very notion that I would try to downplay him is all together ridiculous. I'm not a GM, and neither are you. We're not making a deal. You can't sell him for anything, because he isn't yours to sell, just as he isn't mine to buy. This is a place for debate, which apparently you seem to believe means that you can tell me to go away or leave in an extremely rude manner simply because you don't agree with my opinion.

I never said he was horrible, but based on your previous comments, it's not surprising that you'd twist my words that way. I said he was a very, very good player and a top 15-20 wing in the NHL, as opposed to a top 10. How dare I, right? I happen to like Bobby Ryan, I happen to like the Ducks, in fact. That's why I watch them play every chance I get. But apparently unlike yourself, I have the ability to root for a player while also making objective conclusions about his game. When I watch Bobby Ryan, I see a big, strong, extremely talented player who doesn't play a lot of defense, something that doesn't bother me at all, and who doesn't use his size or strength consistently enough, something that does. Guess what? Ryan Callahan is my favorite player on my favorite team, but I can tell you a few things about his game that I wish were better, too. I suppose that means I'm trying to downplay him so that other team's fans aren't as interested in "buying" him, right?

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You can mention who Sather has said is untouchable, the ducks fans will counter with what Murray has said in interviews from last Bobby-gate as to what he wants in return and they don't match up. So you can come up with as many insults as you want about me and the ducks management until your fingers are bleeding... the fact of the matter is we obviously aren't good trading partners so why don't you move along?
Actually, I'll do what I want because last time I checked, there were no rules about giving my opinion about a player, how he plays, his worth, or what I think he could get in a trade. But you can feel free to leave if you don't like it. And here's a little piece of advice from one poster to another. If you aren't fond of people giving you an attitude, you should probably avoid giving one to them first.

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06-24-2012, 03:31 AM
  #141
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Just wanted to throw this out there for thought:

Ryan DOESN'T play on the 1st powerplay unit.

If he did, I'm guessing his point total would be a lot higher. Food for thought.
I'm not entirely sure he would play on the 1st PP unit in NY, either. Bobby's right handed, and what we need is a lefty to play along the left half boards. Preferably a playmaker because right now we already have Callahan to take out the garbage, Gaborik on the right and Del Zotto and Richards on the points. Almost any set up comes exclusively from the points and that's very damaging to our PP as it makes it awfully predictable. Having another shooter - I'm not sure that would be too helpful.

Our PP isn't magical either. Tortorella went through a phase where he used Rupp on the 1st PP unit. Players like Boyle and Mitchell get consistent PP time.

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06-24-2012, 03:43 AM
  #142
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So are the Ducks fans according to the needs of the team, Iamitter. I don't think the Ducks and Rangers are the best trading partners to be honest. Same thing with my Hawks.
Ducks and Preds make the best trading partners IMO if Ryan were to be moved.

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06-24-2012, 03:45 AM
  #143
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Well, I've been nothing but civil, there's no reason to be snippy with me.
Where was I being snippy with you? I just said that some people were offended. Sorry if you took it as snippy, it wasn't meant to be.

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And, as stated, Ryan would likely have a fair amount more goals and points if he played on the 1st power play the way the rest of those players do.
I don't disagree, but you could also say that he might not have as many points as he does if he didn't spend what time he does (and I know that it isn't all of his even strength time, I know he sees time with other players) playing with Getzlaf and Perry.

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This would be the same group of HF posters who rank Hiller as significantly worse than Price despite him having better career numbers with the exception of when he had vertigo? Those are strongly skewed based on size of fan base, and are also heavily based on flavor of the week what have you done for me lately. You need to find a less biased source. Just because they agree with your opinions doesn't mean they are valid surveys.
And just because they don't agree with yours doesn't mean they aren't. Like I said, I don't necessarily agree with all of those rankings on an individual basis, but I find that they're surprisingly accurate, generally speaking.

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You are entitled to your opinion, and I didnt even disagree with overall rankings, but I find irony in you saying you don't believe in arbitrary categories like "goal scoring winger" then going on to say he is less of a "two-way player", which is a far more arbitrary category. Especially since its his goal scoring that would make him a valuable asset for the Rangers.
I don't believe that two-way player is all that arbitrary. I think a two-way player is a player who makes a significant impact at both ends of the ice. Earlier you mentioned you don't believe that intangibles should be taken into account, which I took to mean that you associate defense with intangibles. Which is fine, that's your prerogative. I don't, however. I think play away from the puck is very . . . tangible, if you will. I think positioning, anticipation, decision making, willingness to engage, stickchecking, and effort level are very real and clear aspects of the game that are not too hard to evaluate, provided you understand how to observe them, take them in, and evaluate their execution. As far as Ryan and defense goes, I just don't see a lot of the effort level defensively from him. Again, that isn't really a knock on him; a lot of goalscorers tend to lighten up in their own zone. But when you have a guy like Eriksson, to go back to what started this all, who produces the same kind of numbers Ryan does, but also plays above average defense, to me, that player is going to be worth more. I know a number of people, both on HFBoards and off, that would agree with me about Ryan and defense. Clearly, Ducks fans here do not. Fair enough. That doesn't really mean anything to me. There are plenty of things that my fellow Rangers fans here seem to agree on that I find myself totally disagreeing with, too. Willingness to trade Staal or Girardi for Ryan, for example.

Where I do agree with you is that his goal scoring would make him valuable to the Rangers, but I said as much several pages ago. I don't think Bobby Ryan plays defense, but that wouldn't preclude me from being all for the Rangers acquiring him. The Rangers are an excellent defensive team, so excellent in fact, that unlike most Ranger fans or apparently Rangers management, I'd be fine with the team dealing one of our prized top defenseman (Staal or Girardi), what some Duck fans have affectionately termed scraps, in exchange for Ryan.

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06-24-2012, 03:55 AM
  #144
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Well, that's one incredibly inaccurate version of it. You're rude, and dishonest, as well. Your very first post towards me was nothing if not insulting.

I'm not trying to downplay anything, friend. I'm telling you what I think about a player. The very notion that I would try to downplay him is all together ridiculous. I'm not a GM, and neither are you. We're not making a deal. You can't sell him for anything, because he isn't yours to sell, just as he isn't mine to buy. This is a place for debate, which apparently you seem to believe means that you can tell me to go away or leave in an extremely rude manner simply because you don't agree with my opinion.

I never said he was horrible, but based on your previous comments, it's not surprising that you'd twist my words that way. I said he was a very, very good player and a top 15-20 wing in the NHL, as opposed to a top 10. How dare I, right? I happen to like Bobby Ryan, I happen to like the Ducks, in fact. That's why I watch them play every chance I get. But apparently unlike yourself, I have the ability to root for a player while also making objective conclusions about his game. When I watch Bobby Ryan, I see a big, strong, extremely talented player who doesn't play a lot of defense, something that doesn't bother me at all, and who doesn't use his size or strength consistently enough, something that does. Guess what? Ryan Callahan is my favorite player on my favorite team, but I can tell you a few things about his game that I wish were, better, too. I suppose that means I'm trying to downplay him so that other team's fans aren't as interested in "buying" him, right?

Actually, I'll do what I want because last time I checked, there were no rules about giving my opinion about a player, how he plays, his worth, or what I think he could get in a trade. But you can feel free to leave if you don't like it. And here's a little piece of advice from one poster to another. If you aren't fond of people giving you an attitude, you should probably avoid giving one to them first.
Rude... definitely, because I'm tired of seeing people undervalue duck players because people assume we're handing out our prized players so other teams can win the cup. Give and take, not take and take. But when exactly was I dishonest?

This is a thread on Bobby Ryan talks aka what will Bobby Ryan go for and it's not what you're offering... but if you want to get into the whole "I'm not a GM and you're not a GM" then we can play the game that hypothetically speaking we won't "accept" what you're offering unless you add in some of those players you said are "untouchable" and since this is all hypothetical you should have no problem with that.

Instead, you try to rationalize how we ducks fans (and 1 blackhawks fan) are overvaluing Ryan by posting comments from a horrible blog (which you yourself say you hate but someone wrote something you agreed with so you HAD to link it) to prove what exactly? That you like Ryan so much? Or that in the whole wide world 1 person agrees with you so you must be right in your assessment of him? Keep on fighting the good fight there, buddy.

You're right there are no rules that state you can't say what you think about Ryan. They're wrong IMO and I can argue with you all I want about that because there are no rules that say I have to agree with you and I can do this all night. I have no problem getting attitude from posters and definitely have no problem giving it either. Seems like you were the one who lost your cool and made harsh statements about a whole organization which you then immediately took back because it showed how you're really just trying to troll... notice how I haven't said one thing about you personally other than you being a vulture or anything about your team.

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06-24-2012, 04:00 AM
  #145
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I wouldn't say hes a goal scoring winger or a 2 way player

He's a 25 year old power forward who can score goals in more ways than your "typical" PF.
He can score the ugly goals, but he can also deke you out at almost any time, and he has a very good wrist shot

Yes last year at times it was infuriating watching him because he could be so dominant one game and then terrible the next, after he was really good the season before, but his numbers also significantly improved after Boudreau was hired.

I wouldn't trade him unless we got exactly what we needed, why would you trade him after he had a down season? even then he scored 31 goals
I don't know why people here get so mad when we tell you guys what the team needs/wants if they're going to trade him. NYR doesn't want to trade Stepan? Ok thats totally cool, but Bobby Ryan isn't going there for some combo of Dubinsky, Anisimov and MDZ or prospects.....

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06-24-2012, 04:00 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Where was I being snippy with you? I just said that some people were offended. Sorry if you took it as snippy, it wasn't meant to be.



I don't disagree, but you could also say that he might not have as many points as he does if he didn't spend what time he does (and I know that it isn't all of his even strength time, I know he sees time with other players) playing with Getzlaf and Perry.



And just because they don't agree with yours doesn't mean they aren't. Like I said, I don't necessarily agree with all of those rankings on an individual basis, but I find that they're surprisingly accurate, generally speaking.



I don't believe that two-way player is all that arbitrary. I think a two-way player is a player who makes a significant impact at both ends of the ice. Earlier you mentioned you don't believe that intangibles should be taken into account, which I took to mean that you associate defense with intangibles. Which is fine, that's your prerogative. I don't, however. I think play away from the puck is very . . . tangible, if you will. I think positioning, anticipation, decision making, willingness to engage, stickchecking, and effort level are very real and clear aspects of the game that are not too hard to evaluate, provided you understand how to observe them, take them in, and evaluate their execution. As far as Ryan and defense goes, I just don't see a lot of the effort level defensively from him. Again, that isn't really a knock on him; a lot of goalscorers tend to lighten up in their own zone. But when you have a guy like Eriksson, to go back to what started this all, who produces the same kind of numbers Ryan does, but also plays above average defense, to me, that player is going to be worth more. I know a number of people, both on HFBoards and off, that would agree with me about Ryan and defense. Clearly, Ducks fans here do not. Fair enough. That doesn't really mean anything to me. There are plenty of things that my fellow Rangers fans here seem to agree on that I find myself totally disagreeing with, too. Willingness to trade Staal or Girardi for Ryan, for example.

Where I do agree with you is that his goal scoring would make him valuable to the Rangers, but I said as much several pages ago. I don't think Bobby Ryan plays defense, but that wouldn't preclude me from being all for the Rangers acquiring him. The Rangers are an excellent defensive team, so excellent in fact, that unlike most Ranger fans or apparently Rangers management, I'd be fine with the team dealing one of our prized top defenseman (Staal or Girardi), what some Duck fans have affectionately termed scraps, in exchange for Ryan.
No worries then.

He's not great defensively, but he's also not a complete floater. He's a bad skater is what he is. Skates very well at speed, but is pathetically easy to knock down/fall on his own when stationary or moving slowly. I personally feel that was part of his issue this year, what he does best isn't what the twins do best (grind). He gets PK time, he's not like Ovechkin at any rate.

The whole "plays with Getzlaf and Perry" thing is crap regardless of how much time he spends with them. Every player on that list plays with top end talent, sans Iginla.

I'm didn't say they were invalid polls because I disagree with them. I find the ones that agree with me to be just as invalid, for the reasons stated. They are open to children who don't understand the world doesn't revolve around their favorite player, and who are over represented based on the size of the fanbase. They are votes for Prom Queens - who is prettier and has the bigger clique that week.

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06-24-2012, 04:11 AM
  #147
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I'm not entirely sure he would play on the 1st PP unit in NY, either. Bobby's right handed, and what we need is a lefty to play along the left half boards. Preferably a playmaker because right now we already have Callahan to take out the garbage, Gaborik on the right and Del Zotto and Richards on the points. Almost any set up comes exclusively from the points and that's very damaging to our PP as it makes it awfully predictable. Having another shooter - I'm not sure that would be too helpful.
It sounds like the player you want isn't the one we have, then. There's no need to offer us the Staals, Del Zottos, and Dubinskys.

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06-24-2012, 04:14 AM
  #148
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Rude... definitely, because I'm tired of seeing people undervalue duck players because people assume we're handing out our prized players so other teams can win the cup. Give and take, not take and take. But when exactly was I dishonest?
Yes. Poor Ducks. They're the only fanbase on these boards that has fell victim to opposing fanbases undervaluing their players in fatastical trade discussions.

You were dishonest in your description of your interaction with ,e

Quote:
his is a thread on Bobby Ryan talks aka what will Bobby Ryan go for and it's not what you're offering... but if you want to get into the whole "I'm not a GM and you're not a GM" then we can play the game that hypothetically speaking we won't "accept" what you're offering unless you add in some of those players you said are "untouchable" and since this is all hypothetical you should have no problem with that.
I don't want to get into anything with you, lady. I didn't make any proposals. All I did was state my OPINION, that I don't think Bobby Ryan is an elite player YET, and I only did that after a Ducks fan called my team's top prospect overrated. But I guess it's okay if your team's fans do that. That you have no problem with.

Quote:
Instead, you try to rationalize how we ducks fans (and 1 blackhawks fan) are overvaluing Ryan by posting comments from a horrible blog (which you yourself say you hate but someone wrote something you agreed with so you HAD to link it) to prove what exactly? That you like Ryan so much? Or that in the whole wide world 1 person agrees with you so you must be right in your assessment of him? Keep on fighting the good fight there, buddy.
You just HAD to rudely call me out for making bad proposals...proposals I never made...and instruct me to leave this thread that ISN'T EVEN ON YOUR BOARD...to prove what exactly? That you're fanbase is victimized, or that you arethe most diehard Duck fan around?

Keep fighting the good fight.

See, I can play the same game.

Quote:
You're right there are no rules that state you can't say what you think about Ryan. They're wrong IMO and I can argue with you all I want about that because there are no rules that say I have to agree with you and I can do this all night. I have no problem getting attitude from posters and definitely have no problem giving it either.
That's where we differ, I guess. I didn't come here to dish and receive attitude. I came here to talk hockey, something I haven't seen you do once so far. All I've seen you do is try to make trouble. Quite the contribution you make around here.

Quote:
Seems like you were the one who lost your cool and made harsh statements about a whole organization which you then immediately took back because it showed how you're really just trying to troll... notice how I haven't said one thing about you personally other than you being a vulture or anything about your team.
Why would I need to take them back? I just didn't want a poster (Unholy, not you) I respect to think I was being serious. I've been saying for weeks that I think Schultz is acting like a brat on the Rangers board. Anyone who knows me here would have known that. And how exactly did I lose my cool? My mocking you for your incredibly inappropriate and unwarranted attitude, your refusal to accurately assess the situation before opening your proverbial mouth and butting in? Considering you're the one that rudely started with me for something I didn't even do, aren't you the one that lost your cool? Aren't you the one trolling here?

Please, please, explain to me how and where I was trying to troll. I can't wait for that one.

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06-24-2012, 04:29 AM
  #149
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Ok this has gone on longer than it should have.

Lets get back to the Rumors/Proposals/Etc and get away from what has been going on these past couple pages.

If you want to finish those 'conversations' take it to Private Messaging.

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06-24-2012, 04:30 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
No worries then.

He's not great defensively, but he's also not a complete floater. He's a bad skater is what he is. Skates very well at speed, but is pathetically easy to knock down/fall on his own when stationary or moving slowly. I personally feel that was part of his issue this year, what he does best isn't what the twins do best (grind). He gets PK time, he's not like Ovechkin at any rate.
I agree. But when you're not a great skater, the simple act of skating expends more energy. And guys like him would prefer to expend energy in the other team's zone.

I'm not saying he's Pavel Bure. Marian Gaborik isn't a complete floater, either. He's there, he's in position, he puts his stick in the passing lane, etc. But he's not making an impact defensively most shifts . . . and that's fine. That's not what I'm looking for out of Marian Gaborik, nor is it what I'm looking for out of Bobby Ryan.

Quote:
The whole "plays with Getzlaf and Perry" thing is crap regardless of how much time he spends with them. Every player on that list plays with top end talent, sans Iginla.
True, but Ryan isn't the only one to spend time playing with less than top end talent, either. Marian Gaborik scored 40 goals his first year as a Ranger with Erik Christensen as his center for a big part of the season. In Minnesota, he played with Aaron Voros on his wing. They all have their moments.

Quote:
I'm didn't say they were invalid polls because I disagree with them. I find the ones that agree with me to be just as invalid, for the reasons stated. They are open to children who don't understand the world doesn't revolve around their favorite player, and who are over represented based on the size of the fanbase. They are votes for Prom Queens - who is prettier and has the bigger clique that week.
Again, I don't disagree. There are certain names on those lists that stand out as clearly there because they win a popularity contest. I was just comment about that on the defense poll the other day. And I also agree that flavor of the month is an issue there. But I think, overall, they're a pretty decent ranking. I try to be as unbiased as I can. There are 6 teams in the league that, as a fan, I genuinely have a fierce dislike of. There are players from all 6 of those teams ( I think) that are above Rangers players on those lists. I'm not complaining. . . for the most part, anyway.

What it comes down to, as far as this conversation goes, is I think it is accurate to state that today, if I was picking wings for one game or one season, whatever the case may be, I would pick Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Marty St. Louis, Daniel Sedin, Perry, Pat Kane, Parise, Hossa, and Eriksson over any other wingers. That's my list. I think, in terms of the game all-around, I would choose those guys over Ryan just as I would choose those guys over Nash, over Kessel, and over the guy from MY favorite team, Gaborik. I think there are 7-9 "elite" wingers in the game today, and those are the guys. And the only reason I even brought it up in the first place is the Duck fan who called Ryan elite while calling Chris Kreider "so overrated."

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