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2012-2013 CHL/NCAA/Euro Prospects thread

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Old
10-02-2012, 11:41 AM
  #526
hototogisu
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Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
I asked the other day how he has been doing and someone said he didn't do much offensively but he was good defensively. It's the answer I'm talking about him.

I'm still trying to figure out what's so horrible about me saying I want him to be great... it's not like I said he is bad or anything.
Well my point is that nobody who has watched the games has any sort of complaints about his play so far. Piling up points in junior is nice, but it's not what makes you a great player either.

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10-02-2012, 11:52 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
I asked the other day how he has been doing and someone said he didn't do much offensively but he was good defensively. It's the answer I'm talking about him.

I'm still trying to figure out what's so horrible about me saying I want him to be great... it's not like I said he is bad or anything.
I have to say that I'm with those saying Gally is more in the Toews mold. You seem to attach a lot of importance to his points total, I frankly don't care, I'm much more happy to read about how good his defence is. I know he's going to put up points, it is obvious by the way he is playing (common, that wrist shot... wow). I'd rather have the super reliable two-way centre that puts up 80pts consistently than the flashy offensive centre that puts up 90+pts but doesn't even care about his D.

Simply put, I much prefer that Gally is developping into a Toews than a Spezza.

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10-02-2012, 11:54 AM
  #528
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Someone who's just good defensively in junior probably just be good defensively in the pros. And we excpect that player to be our top center. Offense is also important in hockey

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10-02-2012, 12:01 PM
  #529
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Guys look at the highlights of Galchenyuk and you'll see he is doing everything very well, except hitting the net. Once he does this, more assists will result from rebounds, as well as more goals. One thing note is that he drives the net hard, something Grigorenko does not do. Galchenyuk is going to be a similar player to Jonathan Toews. People have expected Toews to have 100 point seasons, but that has yet to happen. Still, who would you prefer? I am not saying Gally is the leader Toews is, but he is just as serious. Bottom line is the kid missed a whole year and is finding his timing. No question Grigorenko has the skill, but its the intangibles with the skill and power game that got Galchenyuk drafted at third overall.

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10-02-2012, 12:05 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by Rise from the Ashes View Post
Guys look at the highlights of Galchenyuk and you'll see he is doing everything very well, except hitting the net. Once he does this, more assists will result from rebounds, as well as more goals. One thing note is that he drives the net hard, something Grigorenko does not do. Galchenyuk is going to be a similar player to Jonathan Toews. People have expected Toews to have 100 point seasons, but that has yet to happen. Still, who would you prefer? I am not saying Gally is the leader Toews is, but he is just as serious. Bottom line is the kid missed a whole year and is finding his timing. No question Grigorenko has the skill, but its the intangibles with the skill and power game that got Galchenyuk drafted at third overall.
Everybody feels the "Lockout Blues" in a different way,Galchenyuk will find his game before the lockout ends and then have a tryout with the Habs.

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Old
10-02-2012, 12:39 PM
  #531
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I've all but given up on Avtsin but at least he has a good attitude about everything, he doesn't have many chances left. The problem is I don't think it's his work ethic, I just don't think he has it - he doesn't understand how to play the game when the puck isn't on his stick.

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Old
10-02-2012, 05:28 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
I have to say that I'm with those saying Gally is more in the Toews mold. You seem to attach a lot of importance to his points total, I frankly don't care, I'm much more happy to read about how good his defence is. I know he's going to put up points, it is obvious by the way he is playing (common, that wrist shot... wow). I'd rather have the super reliable two-way centre that puts up 80pts consistently than the flashy offensive centre that puts up 90+pts but doesn't even care about his D.

Simply put, I much prefer that Gally is developping into a Toews than a Spezza.
80 pts 2-way forward would be awesome. I said I don't want another 50-60 points 2-way center...

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10-02-2012, 05:29 PM
  #533
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Not sure when it was added but Hockeystreams is now playing the Q. Full lineup tonight including Hudon Vs Grigorenko. Plan on watching.

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Old
10-02-2012, 05:50 PM
  #534
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In the USCHO pre-season poll done by 28 head coaches in the NCAA among others, voted,

BC at #1 (Colin Sullivan)
Michigan @ #3 (Bennett)
North Dakota @ #4 (Kristo, MacMillan)
Denver @ 8th (Didier)
Western Michigan @10th (Cichy)

So the only Hab prospect in the NCAA that doesn't have his team ranked in the top 10 going into the season is Dustin Walsh as it could be another tough year for Dartmouth.

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Old
10-02-2012, 05:53 PM
  #535
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As long as he avoids the frats at Dartmouth.

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10-02-2012, 08:35 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
In the USCHO pre-season poll done by 28 head coaches in the NCAA among others, voted,

BC at #1 (Colin Sullivan)
Michigan @ #3 (Bennett)
North Dakota @ #4 (Kristo, MacMillan)
Denver @ 8th (Didier)
Western Michigan @10th (Cichy)

So the only Hab prospect in the NCAA that doesn't have his team ranked in the top 10 going into the season is Dustin Walsh as it could be another tough year for Dartmouth.
Walsh needs to be extraordinairy to get another look. I had Walsh amongst my favorites for a mid-round pick in his draft year, happy to see us taking him....but the freakin injures didn't help him. I hope to see him getting some incredible stats....but Dartmouth might not be the team to do that....

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Old
10-02-2012, 11:29 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Two points:

First, Grigorenko and Galchenyuk are on different development curves. People dismiss the fact that Galchenyuk missed an entire season like it's nothing. It's not - he has some real time to make up. However, we didn't draft Galchenyuk hoping he'd dominate juniors the year after his draft, we drafted him because we expect him to be a dominant NHLer for years to come. Whether he outscores Grigorenko this year has nothing to do with that, nor does it mean Grigorenko will be the better NHLer.

Secondly, does nobody else think that Galchenyuk not having it as easy as Grigorenko might actually be a good thing for his development? Realistically, what's Grigorenko leaning this year? How to pile up points playing on a powerhouse? Didn't he already know how to do that? Meanwhile Galchenyuk has to cope with being a leader on a poor team, creating his own offensive chances, being defensively responsible, playing in close games, learning how to lose, etc.

I'm not knocking Grigorenko, but I personally don't care if he puts up 200 points this year to Galchenyuk's 60 if Gally becomes a better pro.
Very good post.

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10-02-2012, 11:43 PM
  #538
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I just think a lot of you are in denial about Galchenyuk and even if he was the worst player on his team, nobody would admit it. You'd still say that his skills will translate well in the nhl.

And what's with the Toews comparison... The guy is normal in junior hockey.

And I for one, can't say what a player shoukd do to be more effective.

Grigorenko for example, if he was driving the net more it wouldn't necessarily make him a better player because it would change his actual style of play and probably make him miss a lot of the chances that he has now because he wouln't be at the same place on the ice.

For example a grinder is usually better than a offensive player when in the corners and to hit the opponent. But it doesn't make them better players than the top offensive guys.

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Old
10-03-2012, 12:01 AM
  #539
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Yeah, it's clear Galchenyuk is hopeless for not standing out in 4 games after missing a season, time to trade him for a bag of pucks.

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Old
10-03-2012, 12:38 AM
  #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by durojean View Post
I just think a lot of you are in denial about Galchenyuk and even if he was the worst player on his team, nobody would admit it. You'd still say that his skills will translate well in the nhl.

And what's with the Toews comparison... The guy is normal in junior hockey.

And I for one, can't say what a player shoukd do to be more effective.

Grigorenko for example, if he was driving the net more it wouldn't necessarily make him a better player because it would change his actual style of play and probably make him miss a lot of the chances that he has now because he wouln't be at the same place on the ice.

For example a grinder is usually better than a offensive player when in the corners and to hit the opponent. But it doesn't make them better players than the top offensive guys.
You make a good point, but the NHL is different than European hockey, where Grigorenko's style is best suited. Galchenyuk is a North American styled player. Grigorenko has incredible skill, reach, smoothness and vision. He could be a great player. But to count out Gally after missing a whole year is unfair as well. Timmins drafts based on a five year projection. What does that say or prove? Nothing. Bottom line is its a guessing game based on what a team values most. In the Habs case, its character. Well, they have got it there with Galchenyuk; now lets see where it leads them.

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Old
10-03-2012, 01:11 AM
  #541
Et le But
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Originally Posted by Rise from the Ashes View Post
You make a good point, but the NHL is different than European hockey, where Grigorenko's style is best suited. Galchenyuk is a North American styled player. Grigorenko has incredible skill, reach, smoothness and vision. He could be a great player. But to count out Gally after missing a whole year is unfair as well. Timmins drafts based on a five year projection. What does that say or prove? Nothing. Bottom line is its a guessing game based on what a team values most. In the Habs case, its character. Well, they have got it there with Galchenyuk; now lets see where it leads them.
Please don't make it a Euro vs North American thing, Galchenyuk learned the game in both North America and Europe. Is Spezza "more suited to European hockey?"

Both Grigorenko and Galchenyuk need work to make the NHL. But we already saw last year that Grigorenko will put up ridiculous numbers against inferior competition. That's not the question, and it has nothing to do with being European. Saku Koivu never played a minute in North America at Grigorenko's age and was more committed in traffic despite lacking the size.

If Galchenyuk doesn't increase his offensive output at all it would be very concerning even if his name was Bob Smith and he was a farm boy from Regina. But he missed a year of development and that was always going to show, I found it amazing that there was people who actually though him playing in the NHL this year was anything close to a good idea. And he is playing well too.

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10-03-2012, 08:55 AM
  #542
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People knocking the Galchenyuk pick after he's played 4 games, you guys should use a little thing called the search button and look up past prospects and what was being said about them. Not long ago a substantial portion if this fan base had given up on Pacioretty. Where is he now? He's our best forward.

Give Galchenyuk some time to get back to 100% game shape and timing, doesn't help he plays on a pretty mediocre if not bad team.

It's no where near time to start questioning the pick.

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10-03-2012, 09:12 AM
  #543
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Not long ago a substantial portion if this fan base had given up on Pacioretty. Where is he now?
Oh, Oh! I know this one! HC Ambri Piotta!

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10-03-2012, 10:00 AM
  #544
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Some people on here got ripped really hard for saying (respectfully) that we should take Grigorenko instead of Galchenyuk before the draft, you can't blame them for sticking to their guns now. There were good valid reasons for taking Grigorenko.

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10-03-2012, 10:19 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Andros777 View Post
Some people on here got ripped really hard for saying (respectfully) that we should take Grigorenko instead of Galchenyuk before the draft, you can't blame them for sticking to their guns now. There were good valid reasons for taking Grigorenko.
He dropped for good valid reasons too.

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Old
10-03-2012, 10:21 AM
  #546
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Some people on here got ripped really hard for saying (respectfully) that we should take Grigorenko instead of Galchenyuk before the draft, you can't blame them for sticking to their guns now. There were good valid reasons for taking Grigorenko.
There were good valid reasons for picking Filip Forsberg too, who has 4 goals in 7 games this season in a mens league, but instead of crying over it, I'm saying using a 7 game sample size to judge a prospect is a terrible idea.

Also the same valid reasons for why everyone wanted Grigorenko last year,and the same reason others didn't want Grigorenko, well absolutely nothing has changed so far. Grigorenko is essentially the same player he was last year so far.

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10-03-2012, 10:53 AM
  #547
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There were good valid reasons for picking Filip Forsberg too, who has 4 goals in 7 games this season in a mens league, but instead of crying over it, I'm saying using a 7 game sample size to judge a prospect is a terrible idea.

Also the same valid reasons for why everyone wanted Grigorenko last year,and the same reason others didn't want Grigorenko, well absolutely nothing has changed so far. Grigorenko is essentially the same player he was last year so far.
Yes but a lingering laziness (softness?) problem is much less of a concern than a lingering "I can't score because I had a traumatic knee injury" problem. Some people suspected that he might have trouble playing well because of that injury and given the fact that he has only seven points in his last ten games I think a little nervousness is warranted and even called for.

I'm not a vulture circling overhead waiting for Galchenyuk to fail so I can swoop in and brag about how smart I am. But drafting a guy who'd been injured that badly during his draft year worried me then and it will probably worry me until his scoring takes off. He needs to prove that the past is behind him much more than Grigorenko does.

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Old
10-03-2012, 11:08 AM
  #548
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The thing is, if you watch him you could never tell he had the injury. His doesn't have the quickest first step but that was the same thing scouts were saying about him before the injury.

What's off slightly is his timing and final moves - the kind of things that show inexperience, as in what is to be expected when someone misses a year of development.

Galchenyuk was not a safe pick, and if in a few months we are talking about the same thing it might be time to wonder if his offensive upside isn't what we thought. But based on such a small sample size we might as well proclaim Hudon the next great Quebecois superstar.

And it's not like Galchenyuk is stinking the place up either. Durojean is making it sound like he has no points so far and is the worst player on his team. And at least he's not secretly 25 like a certain other player.

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10-03-2012, 11:16 AM
  #549
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Put Gally in the Q and give him Grigorenko's linemates he'd have a similar prduction or a bit more or less. The guys's got intangibles which Grigs is ways off from having. I'll take a 2 way 60-70 point player any day over a one minded offensive 80 point center.

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10-03-2012, 11:27 AM
  #550
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Give Gally more then 4 games for crying out loud, the guy missed an entire season

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