HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part V

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-25-2012, 01:56 PM
  #351
KevFu
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans
Country: United States
Posts: 3,939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Who is to say NHL hockey will even work in Seattle, if the NBA comes back any NHL team will be the fourth sport in that market maybe even the fifth behind the MLS Sounders. Seattle has supported junior hockey for a number of years but other than that has no real connection with the sport.
Every shred of evidence about how they support their other teams?

KevFu is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 01:57 PM
  #352
Holden Caulfield
Moderator
The Eternal Skeptic
 
Holden Caulfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,885
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Who is to say NHL hockey will even work in Seattle, if the NBA comes back any NHL team will be the fourth sport in that market maybe even the fifth behind the MLS Sounders. Seattle has supported junior hockey for a number of years but other than that has no real connection with the sport.
Sigh. All the reasons are right up there in the thread.

It is a huge market. This coming fourth thing, meh, whatever by that logic since the Rangers are the 7th most popular team in NYC they are a complete disappointment right? Man, why would the NHL even bother...

What about Hamilton, they have poorly supported AHL team and no other connection to the game of hockey, why should they be any more successful than a Seattle team? How about Quebec, all they have is a history strife with losing professional teams due to lack of support (Nordiques, Citadelles). Why are these markets better than a Seattle?

IMO they are not.

Different sports appeal to different people. Seattle has the population, has some track record, has an individual was has the money and commitment to bring back both the NBA and NHL, has a VERY VERY strong coporate base, has a wealthy affluent population (which is where the NHL makes it's money, NHL is the sport of choice for "white collar" workers, NFL/NBA tend to be more "blue collar"), there are many great contributing factors for that.

Seattle is by far the biggest opportunity for the NHL. I do hope that PHO finds a way to stay put, but if not, they will land in Seattle, IMO. If they do stay in PHO, I am hopeful that the NHL could be looking at expansion by 2015/2016 as the arenas both in Seattle and Quebec will be opening.

Holden Caulfield is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 02:03 PM
  #353
CerebralGenesis
Registered User
 
CerebralGenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23,705
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
So, to recap:
In your mind, relocation isn't a bad thing, or a good thing. Whether a team is ripped out of your city and moved is "bad" or "good" is based on where they are moving to and from? QUE to COL was a travesty, ATL to WIN was just fantastic; EDM to SEA would be heinous, but PHX to HAM would be glorious?

I assume that if I asked you if mugging was bad, your response would be: "Am I getting mugged or doing the mugging?" or stealings a great thing if you're robbing people, but should be punishable if you're the victim?

Solid.
Pretty much. Gotta love it.

CerebralGenesis is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 02:03 PM
  #354
superdeluxe
Seattle SuperSonics
 
superdeluxe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sodo, Wa
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 2,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterEmpire View Post
For someone like me(Living in Metro Vancouver far from Rogers Arena) I can get to Downtown Seattle in about an and hour and forty-five on a good day. Only about 45 minutes more than it takes to get to Downtown Vancouver. If the prices are cheap enough I can certainly see a large amounts of people getting 10 game packs at the very least. I also wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of group bus service set up to cut down on traveling costs like they have for Sounders/Whitecaps games
Amtrak also would drop off near to the SODO arena location.

superdeluxe is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 02:14 PM
  #355
sipowicz
The Original
 
sipowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,521
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Sigh. All the reasons are right up there in the thread.

It is a huge market. This coming fourth thing, meh, whatever by that logic since the Rangers are the 7th most popular team in NYC they are a complete disappointment right? Man, why would the NHL even bother...

What about Hamilton, they have poorly supported AHL team and no other connection to the game of hockey, why should they be any more successful than a Seattle team? How about Quebec, all they have is a history strife with losing professional teams due to lack of support (Nordiques, Citadelles). Why are these markets better than a Seattle?

IMO they are not.

Different sports appeal to different people. Seattle has the population, has some track record, has an individual was has the money and commitment to bring back both the NBA and NHL, has a VERY VERY strong coporate base, has a wealthy affluent population (which is where the NHL makes it's money, NHL is the sport of choice for "white collar" workers, NFL/NBA tend to be more "blue collar"), there are many great contributing factors for that.

Seattle is by far the biggest opportunity for the NHL. I do hope that PHO finds a way to stay put, but if not, they will land in Seattle, IMO. If they do stay in PHO, I am hopeful that the NHL could be looking at expansion by 2015/2016 as the arenas both in Seattle and Quebec will be opening.

I will disagree, Minneapolis–Saint Paul a similar sized city embraced the NHL and NBA at first but attendance at both has really waned the past couple of years, the NFL and MLB are still the big two. Getting a ticket to the NHL in St. Paul is never a problem, tickets are discounted and games are rarely sold out, and this in a hockey market. Sure both Seattle and Mpls./St. Paul have large populations but enough to support 4-5 pro teams is questionable.

sipowicz is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 03:03 PM
  #356
Holden Caulfield
Moderator
The Eternal Skeptic
 
Holden Caulfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,885
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
I will disagree, Minneapolis–Saint Paul a similar sized city embraced the NHL and NBA at first but attendance at both has really waned the past couple of years, the NFL and MLB are still the big two. Getting a ticket to the NHL in St. Paul is never a problem, tickets are discounted and games are rarely sold out, and this in a hockey market. Sure both Seattle and Mpls./St. Paul have large populations but enough to support 4-5 pro teams is questionable.
Minnesota is 10th in average ticket price (link) and 16th in average attendance(link). This as a team that has not made playoffs since 2008, not made it past first round since 2003 and has no markatable stars. Oh yeah, they are at 98.4% attendance, averaging 17772 in an 18064 seat rink. So if they are "rarely" selling out, they are barely barely missing sell outs. They also just signed the two most marketable players in the NHL to huge longterm (highly front loaded) deals and I do believe maxed out their ST base...

Minnesota is doing very solid as a market for the NHL, both the Wild have been terrible for many years, not every market is going to be top 5 revenue when they are fielding terrible teams year after year. I would argue Minnesota is one of the most solid teams in the entire NHL. I also don't give a single damn about T-Wolves.

Holden Caulfield is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 03:27 PM
  #357
superdeluxe
Seattle SuperSonics
 
superdeluxe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sodo, Wa
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 2,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
I will disagree, Minneapolis–Saint Paul a similar sized city embraced the NHL and NBA at first but attendance at both has really waned the past couple of years, the NFL and MLB are still the big two. Getting a ticket to the NHL in St. Paul is never a problem, tickets are discounted and games are rarely sold out, and this in a hockey market. Sure both Seattle and Mpls./St. Paul have large populations but enough to support 4-5 pro teams is questionable.
We have larger metro areas to draw from/as well as the Vancouver large metro area. Minneapolis does not have that.

superdeluxe is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 03:31 PM
  #358
MuzikMachine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 693
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
There is a huge difference between Hansen and Katz. Hansen is a fan that desperately wants the NBA to return to Seattle and he has put together a very fair deal for the city. Katz is a greedy owner that wants to extract as much as he can from the city of Edmonton through blackmail.
Who's to say Hansen wouldn't do the same thing? He's a business man who would try to get the most he possibly could out of the City of Seattle or King County for an arena deal, and on the other side of the coin the city/county would try to maximize what they can get out of Hansen. The big difference is Hansen got his deal and to date Katz has not.

In a way, Katz probably should talk to Hansen on how to get an arena deal done. If their conversation went beyond simply discussing relocation (i.e. Katz is Hansen's tennant) into the politics of structuring an arena deal, it could actually be beinifical to the process in Edmonton.

MuzikMachine is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 03:36 PM
  #359
Melrose Munch
Registered User
 
Melrose Munch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
How is it hypocritical?

Canada has the highest concentration of hockey fans, even though our population is a tenth the size of the US. Over 50% of the NHL players are still Canadian.

It's our ****ing sport. Relocating teams to where they belong is a positive thing. It's the right thing to do. Moving our teams to the ****ing US is a crime against humanity.

All along, I've thought a team in Seattle would be a great idea (as long as Quebec City got one first), but if it's the Oilers, hell no. I don't even like the Oilers. I'm a Winnipegger, and grew up watching my team get destroyed by the dynastic Oilers every year in the playoffs. But I still don't think Edmonton should ever, ever lose its team.

this is extremely upsetting.
Is it?

Gee, ya think it's been extremely upsetting for fans in Phoenix and LI, everytime we've gotten another absolutely GLEEFUL article, from the Canadian media, calling for those teams to be relocated to Canada?
You both are wrong. Fidel, seriously? IT'S A GAME! Your life didn't end when the Jets left, and even less so if the Oilers leave. Why should it matter when you have a team who's leaving and coming. I am a leafs and and follow this from a distance, and don't care what happens, because I can't control it. You should try it too.

Crew, you are the only NY team that does not sell out. And you sound like the typical american who thinks he deserves everything. Look at this again:
Quote:
It's our ****ing sport
Because it is. There's difference between Edmonton and Hempstead. America has three other major sports. Canada has nothing else.

Melrose Munch is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 03:37 PM
  #360
Melrose Munch
Registered User
 
Melrose Munch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
I will disagree, Minneapolis–Saint Paul a similar sized city embraced the NHL and NBA at first but attendance at both has really waned the past couple of years, the NFL and MLB are still the big two. Getting a ticket to the NHL in St. Paul is never a problem, tickets are discounted and games are rarely sold out, and this in a hockey market. Sure both Seattle and Mpls./St. Paul have large populations but enough to support 4-5 pro teams is questionable.
Because both teams suck.

Since we are playing this game, Winnipeg was not hot with the AHL either, or Hamilton which is a better market then all mentioned.

Melrose Munch is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 03:40 PM
  #361
MuzikMachine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 693
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
You both are wrong. Fidel, seriously? IT'S A GAME! Your life didn't end when the Jets left, and even less so if the Oilers leave. Why should it matter when you have a team who's leaving and coming. I am a leafs and and follow this from a distance, and don't care what happens, because I can't control it. You should try it too.

Crew, you are the only NY team that does not sell out. And you sound like the typical american who thinks he deserves everything. Look at this again: Because it is. There's difference between Edmonton and Hempstead. America has three other major sports. Canada has nothing else.
The great irony being that currentlty NO city has NHL hockey at the moment

MuzikMachine is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 03:52 PM
  #362
smitty10
Registered User
 
smitty10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,232
vCash: 500
Ideally, Seattle will be the next city to get an NHL team; whether it be by expansion or relocation. I personally would like to see the NHL expand to Quebec City and Seattle (one team for each conference) and have Detroit and Winnipeg change conferences. Then the conferences could look like so:

Eastern Conference

North East:

Detroit
Buffalo
Ottawa
Toronto
New York Islanders
New York Rangers
New Jersey
Washington

Atlantic:

Florida
Tampa Bay
Carolina
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Boston
Montreal
Quebec City

Western Conference

Central:

Nashville
Chicago
St. Louis
Columbus
Dallas
Winnipeg
Minnesota
Colorado

West:

Vancouver
Calgary
Edmonton
Phoenix
Los Angeles
Anaheim
San Jose
Seattle

Would be a great layout for the league and would retain most rivalries.

smitty10 is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 04:28 PM
  #363
KevFu
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans
Country: United States
Posts: 3,939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Ideally, Seattle will be the next city to get an NHL team; whether it be by expansion or relocation. I personally would like to see the NHL expand to Quebec City and Seattle (one team for each conference) and have Detroit and Winnipeg change conferences. Then the conferences could look like so:
I agree to the addition to 32 and the 4-division/conference of 8 format. Love that.

However, I'd dissent on your alignment. First and foremost, I think you need to move CBJ instead of DET. (I know DET has "dibs" but) DET is one of the top 6 revenue teams and giving CBJ the 25* more local start times will help their TV contract and therefore improve league health as a whole. (*or whatever)

The proposed 8-8-7-7 alignment also included such revenue-boosting nuances, like TB-FLA in a division with MON-TOR-BOS, who are bigger draws for them than their "geographical rivals."

NE/Adams: BOS-QUE-OTT-MON-TOR-BUF-TB-FLA
ATL/Patrick: NYR-NYI-NJ-PHI-WAS-CAR-PIT-CBJ
CEN/Norris: WIN-MIN-CHI-STL-DET-NASH-DAL-COL
PAC/Smythe: CAL-EDM-VAN-SEA-SJ-LA-ANA-PHX

DET-CBJ is only a rivalry for CBJ. CBJ would have PIT instead.
WAS reunited with their old Patrick division rivals.
BOS-MON-OTT-QUE retained (why would MON-OTT-QUE be separated?)
While CAR-TB-FLA isn't retained, TB-FLA is and WAS-CAR is. The collective attendance numbers for CAR-TB-FLA show their fans really don't care about playing each other, they'd rather see MON-TOR-BOS-NYR-PHI on the schedule.
PHI vs NJD-NYR-NYI is retained, and WAS is added.

And if PHX is relocated, you can move them to:
Hamilton (CBJ back to Norris, COL to Smythe)
Houston, Milwaukee, Kansas City (swap with COL)
Las Vegas, Portland (no change)

KevFu is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 04:46 PM
  #364
sipowicz
The Original
 
sipowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,521
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Because both teams suck.

Since we are playing this game, Winnipeg was not hot with the AHL either, or Hamilton which is a better market then all mentioned.
Excuse me, Winnipeg (Manitoba Moose) were consistently among the AHL’s leaders in attendance and revenue over their 10 seasons in the league.

sipowicz is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 04:59 PM
  #365
AdmiralsFan24
Registered User
 
AdmiralsFan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
Posts: 5,325
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to AdmiralsFan24
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
I will disagree, Minneapolis–Saint Paul a similar sized city embraced the NHL and NBA at first but attendance at both has really waned the past couple of years, the NFL and MLB are still the big two. Getting a ticket to the NHL in St. Paul is never a problem, tickets are discounted and games are rarely sold out, and this in a hockey market. Sure both Seattle and Mpls./St. Paul have large populations but enough to support 4-5 pro teams is questionable.
They embraced the NHL at first because they first got their team back. They had a sellout streak of 5 years. Then they started to suck and are still pretty close to selling out their building on a regular basis.

As far as the Timberwolves, I won't count their first season that they played at the Metrodome. They drew very well for the first four years averaging 18,515 in their 19,356 seat building, a 95.6% capacity. They won a total of 85 games in those 4 years. After that people didn't want to pay money to watch that bad of a team so they dropped to the 14,500 range for three years.

The last year in that 3 year span of around 14,500 they had their first playoff appearance, their first of 8 consecutive seasons in the playoffs. From there their attendance ranged from around 16,000 to around 18,000 (the low end came the year after the NBA lockout that cost them 32 games). They have not made the playoffs in 8 seasons so of course their attendance is going to drop.

AdmiralsFan24 is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 05:52 PM
  #366
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 29,395
vCash: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post

Crew, you are the only NY team that does not sell out. And you sound like the typical american who thinks he deserves everything. Look at this again: Because it is. There's difference between Edmonton and Hempstead. America has three other major sports. Canada has nothing else.

HOW exactly am I showing, that I think I (or my team) deserves everything?


Was it when I accurately pointed out the absolute glee that some of the Canadian press and fans take, whenever they discuss possible relocation of a US team to Canada?

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 05:59 PM
  #367
Melrose Munch
Registered User
 
Melrose Munch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
HOW exactly am I showing, that I think I (or my team) deserves everything?


Was it when I accurately pointed out the absolute glee that some of the Canadian press and fans take, whenever they discuss possible relocation of a US team to Canada?
Because its a Canadian sport. You're saying this while the Isles have had bad attendance for some time. Granted, I do not care where teams are, but Edmonton has sold out despite being just as bad. They want more teams from a sport they invented. I don't know why (really last time we had 8 teams it was for 4 years and it didn't work). How would you feel if Toronto had an NFL team that was a poor draw? Same thing.

Melrose Munch is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 06:05 PM
  #368
superdeluxe
Seattle SuperSonics
 
superdeluxe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sodo, Wa
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 2,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzikMachine View Post
Who's to say Hansen wouldn't do the same thing? He's a business man who would try to get the most he possibly could out of the City of Seattle or King County for an arena deal, and on the other side of the coin the city/county would try to maximize what they can get out of Hansen. The big difference is Hansen got his deal and to date Katz has not.

In a way, Katz probably should talk to Hansen on how to get an arena deal done. If their conversation went beyond simply discussing relocation (i.e. Katz is Hansen's tennant) into the politics of structuring an arena deal, it could actually be beinifical to the process in Edmonton.
Because Hansen didn't. Hansen had a line that he didn't really want to cross $$$. But in the end he looked at the big picture and wanted to get it done. He has stated numerous times that there much better investments than owning a arena/nba team

superdeluxe is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 06:06 PM
  #369
Holden Caulfield
Moderator
The Eternal Skeptic
 
Holden Caulfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,885
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Because its a Canadian sport. You're saying this while the Isles have had bad attendance for some time. Granted, I do not care where teams are, but Edmonton has sold out despite being just as bad. They want more teams from a sport they invented. I don't know why (really last time we had 8 teams it was for 4 years and it didn't work). How would you feel if Toronto had an NFL team that was a poor draw? Same thing.
How can a country own a freaking sport? That doesn't make any sense. We may play it more than other countries, but that does not automatically mean Canada "owns" hockey.

Why does hockey have this idea that it needs to be restricted? I, personally, want to have to sport as wide spread as possible, to get as many people hooked as possible, since it is a great game that everybody should be able to enjoy.

I don't feel personally assaulted since some teams in the States are not drawing great right now. How quickly people forget that just a decade ago Canada was coming off losing two teams, with 2 more on life support. Every team goes through highs and lows.

I just don't get this Canada versus US thing at all.

Holden Caulfield is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 06:17 PM
  #370
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 29,395
vCash: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Because its a Canadian sport. You're saying this while the Isles have had bad attendance for some time. Granted, I do not care where teams are, but Edmonton has sold out despite being just as bad. They want more teams from a sport they invented. I don't know why (really last time we had 8 teams it was for 4 years and it didn't work). How would you feel if Toronto had an NFL team that was a poor draw? Same thing.


Out of 30 teams in MLB, the Blue Jays are ranked 20th in attendance. I couldn't care less. Out of 30 teams in the NBA, the Raptors are ranked 17th in attendance. Again, I couldn't care less.

If there was an NFL team in the Toronto area and if drew poorly, I would not care.

I'm not saying Edmonton will or should lose their team. I'm saying I will lol at the hypocrites in the Canadian media, who've practically prayed for US teams to fold and be relocated to Canada, who are now outraged by Katz's implied threat.


Last edited by CREW99AW: 09-25-2012 at 06:40 PM.
CREW99AW is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 06:28 PM
  #371
Melrose Munch
Registered User
 
Melrose Munch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzikMachine View Post
The great irony being that currentlty NO city has NHL hockey at the moment
That's for sure.

Melrose Munch is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 06:37 PM
  #372
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,899
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Sigh. All the reasons are right up there in the thread.

It is a huge market. This coming fourth thing, meh, whatever by that logic since the Rangers are the 7th most popular team in NYC they are a complete disappointment right? Man, why would the NHL even bother...

What about Hamilton, they have poorly supported AHL team and no other connection to the game of hockey, why should they be any more successful than a Seattle team? How about Quebec, all they have is a history strife with losing professional teams due to lack of support (Nordiques, Citadelles). Why are these markets better than a Seattle?

IMO they are not.

Different sports appeal to different people. Seattle has the population, has some track record, has an individual was has the money and commitment to bring back both the NBA and NHL, has a VERY VERY strong coporate base, has a wealthy affluent population (which is where the NHL makes it's money, NHL is the sport of choice for "white collar" workers, NFL/NBA tend to be more "blue collar"), there are many great contributing factors for that.

Seattle is by far the biggest opportunity for the NHL. I do hope that PHO finds a way to stay put, but if not, they will land in Seattle, IMO. If they do stay in PHO, I am hopeful that the NHL could be looking at expansion by 2015/2016 as the arenas both in Seattle and Quebec will be opening.
Rangers are 6th. Yanks, Giants, Mets, Jets, Knicks, then Rangers.

patnyrnyg is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 06:39 PM
  #373
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,899
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post

I just don't get this Canada versus US thing at all.
You are not the only one.

patnyrnyg is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 06:56 PM
  #374
Confucius
Registered User
 
Confucius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
You are not the only one.
They started it....

Confucius is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 06:57 PM
  #375
gstommylee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,457
vCash: 500
http://seattletimes.com/html/busines...erzonexml.html

Hansen acquires more land will be used for parking if more parking is necessary. Purely for addressing EIS/SEPA


Last edited by gstommylee: 09-25-2012 at 07:46 PM.
gstommylee is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:31 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.