HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Notices

7 core system

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-13-2012, 11:23 AM
  #1
Mats26
Cup Champs
 
Mats26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 491
vCash: 500
7 core system

The building process on how to build a contender:
Here is my take. Let's look at the larger picture. We need to first establish a 7 core system. The hockey brains like Pierre McGuire and company, they talk about it all the time. A team needs the following 7 core positions to start a build.

1 – Goalie
2 - Big ShutDown D
3 - PP QB D
4 – Big First Line Center
5 - Shutdown Centerman
6 - Power Forward
7 - Sniper

When DL took over we started to fill in those positions. If we look at what we have and rate the positions…i.e (1 is best – 2 average - 3 needs improvement) our ratings IMO look like this:

1 – Goalie (Quick) Rating :1
2 - Big ShutDown D (Mitchel) Rating :2
3 - PP QB D (Doughty) Rating :1
4 – Big First Line Center (Kopitar) Rating :1
5 - Shutdown Centerman (Richards) Rating :1
6 - Power Forward (Brown) Rating :3
7 – Sniper (Williams) Rating :3

So we need help on the power forward and sniper positions. Brown and Williams are complementary players in these roles. This is why I feel we are still in a building mode and not contenders yet. We still don’t have all the core pieces in place.

So how do we get those pieces?
Well, draft, sign a UFA or trade for them and find the right fit. That is DL’s job not ours. I think he has established the 5 pieces of the core, now we need to go out and get the last 2 and fill the rest of the roster with complementary players at every position. Then we hope for good chemistry and a little luck and we may be on our way.

The road is still rocky because I don't think DL has finished putting it together.

Mats26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:30 AM
  #2
Capn Brown
Registered User
 
Capn Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats26 View Post
1 – Goalie (Quick) Rating :1
2 - Big ShutDown D (Mitchell) Rating :2
3 - PP QB D (Doughty) Rating :1
4 – Big First Line Center (Kopitar) Rating :1
5 - Shutdown Centerman (Richards) Rating :1
6 - Power Forward (Brown) Rating :3
7 – Sniper (Williams) Rating :3

For those who possess difficulty reading between the lines, I'll spell it out for you: Jack Johnson is expendable!!!

Capn Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:33 AM
  #3
SMoneyMonkey
Registered User
 
SMoneyMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LA/MTL
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats26 View Post
1 – Goalie (Quick) Rating :1
2 - Big ShutDown D (Mitchell) Rating :2
3 - PP QB D (Doughty) Rating :1
4 – Big First Line Center (Kopitar) Rating :1
5 - Shutdown Centerman (Richards) Rating :1
6 - Power Forward (Johnson) Rating :1
7 – Sniper (Williams) Rating :3
In your heart, you know it to be true.

SMoneyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:41 AM
  #4
drugold
drunk, goals&swagger
 
drugold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Brisbane,
Country: Australia-Aboriginal
Posts: 2,399
vCash: 500
Nice refreshing post Mats.
I wish Johnny Utah and Tomd could take the time and post a constructive argument like this instead of behaving like a Troll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats26 View Post
The building process on how to build a contender:
Here is my take. Let's look at the larger picture. We need to first establish a 7 core system. The hockey brains like Pierre McGuire and company, they talk about it all the time. A team needs the following 7 core positions to start a build.

1 – Goalie
2 - Big ShutDown D
3 - PP QB D
4 – Big First Line Center
5 - Shutdown Centerman
6 - Power Forward
7 - Sniper

When DL took over we started to fill in those positions. If we look at what we have and rate the positions…i.e (1 is best – 2 average - 3 needs improvement) our ratings IMO look like this:

1 – Goalie (Quick) Rating :1
2 - Big ShutDown D (Mitchel) Rating :2
3 - PP QB D (Doughty) Rating :1
4 – Big First Line Center (Kopitar) Rating :1
5 - Shutdown Centerman (Richards) Rating :1
6 - Power Forward (Brown) Rating :3
7 – Sniper (Williams) Rating :3

So we need help on the power forward and sniper positions. Brown and Williams are complementary players in these roles. This is why I feel we are still in a building mode and not contenders yet. We still don’t have all the core pieces in place.

So how do we get those pieces?
Well, draft, sign a UFA or trade for them and find the right fit. That is DL’s job not ours. I think he has established the 5 pieces of the core, now we need to go out and get the last 2 and fill the rest of the roster with complementary players at every position. Then we hope for good chemistry and a little luck and we may be on our way.

The road is still rocky because I don't think DL has finished putting it together.

drugold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:44 AM
  #5
WhatTheFox
Jacha-chacha-chachow
 
WhatTheFox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: the Black Hole
Posts: 2,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats26 View Post

1 – Goalie (Quick) Rating :1
2 - Big ShutDown D (Mitchel) Rating :2
3 - PP QB D (Doughty) Rating :1
4 – Big First Line Center (Kopitar) Rating :1
5 - Shutdown Centerman (Richards) Rating :1

6 - Power Forward (Brown) Rating :3
7 – Sniper (Williams) Rating :3
I'd probably rate Kopitar and Richards as 2s. I agree with the rest of your rankings.

WhatTheFox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 12:01 PM
  #6
null33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,091
vCash: 500
Brown is a 2 (Average).

Otherwise, what an interesting tool this "Seven Core" system is.

null33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 12:06 PM
  #7
Duc620
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 931
vCash: 500
Great post!

This system needs a "depth" variable. So you'd have B and C players behind your number 1 in each category. In my mind, that means we need to keep Johnson as the developing B who will replace Mitchell as the shutdown defenseman.

And Williams is not really a "pure sniper", he's more playmaker than sniper, imho.

Duc620 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 12:26 PM
  #8
LombardiTool
Registered User
 
LombardiTool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fontana, Ca
Country: United States
Posts: 2,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Brown View Post
For those who possess difficulty reading between the lines, I'll spell it out for you: Jack Johnson is expendable!!!
I think Jack Johnson is tradeable in that he can be a chip in a deal that brings quality back. I dont think he is expendable.

LombardiTool is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 12:28 PM
  #9
ShattStar03
Registered User
 
ShattStar03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Claremont, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LombardiTool View Post
I think Jack Johnson is tradeable in that he can be a chip in a deal that brings quality back. I dont think he is expendable.
Couldn't agree more.

ShattStar03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 01:17 PM
  #10
Dropdapuck
Registered User
 
Dropdapuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 64
vCash: 500
Surely, systematized thinking is an important part of organizational success. The Lombardi hire brought that type of thinking to the fore. I believed then, and continue to believe that it was a great improvement. But there are pitfalls in giving too much place to rigid priorities. A decent example is the toy from my childhood-- paint by numbers art work.

In a competitive environment, when a system is widely known, it will inspire very creative counter attacks and cheaper counter-trends. What I worry about with Lombardi, and this can be seen in his reaction and performance through the critical arc that lead to the firing of Murray and it's aftermath, is that his leadership is not flexible enough to continually adjust his system commitments. There is a point when doggedly building through a preconceived war pan needs to give way to battlefield realities.

The above build model suggests that we need to acquire a power forward and a sniper but it doesn't tell us when this trendy idea becomes too expensive. I think that this deep into a rebuild flexibility and counter-tactics are needed.

Summary: Lombardi seems to be a decent to very good war planning general but the jury is still out on whether or not he is a good battlefield general (with some troubling evidence that he is not). And, any good system has to provide for flexibility and the ability to change when present circumstances warrant.

Dropdapuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 01:24 PM
  #11
damacles1156
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 12,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropdapuck View Post
Surely, systematized thinking is an important part of organizational success. The Lombardi hire brought that type of thinking to the fore. I believed then, and continue to believe that it was a great improvement. But there are pitfalls in giving too much place to rigid priorities. A decent example is the toy from my childhood-- paint by numbers art work.

In a competitive environment, when a system is widely known, it will inspire very creative counter attacks and cheaper counter-trends. What I worry about with Lombardi, and this can be seen in his reaction and performance through the critical arc that lead to the firing of Murray and it's aftermath, is that his leadership is not flexible enough to continually adjust his system commitments. There is a point when doggedly building through a preconceived war pan needs to give way to battlefield realities.

The above build model suggests that we need to acquire a power forward and a sniper but it doesn't tell us when this trendy idea becomes too expensive. I think that this deep into a rebuild flexibility and counter-tactics are needed.

Summary: Lombardi seems to be a decent to very good war planning general but the jury is still out on whether or not he is a good battlefield general (with some troubling evidence that he is not). And, any good system has to provide for flexibility and the ability to change when present circumstances warrant.
Snipers (so far) have been too expensive (a least for Lombardi).
have to hope Tyler is the scorer we hope he is.

damacles1156 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 01:36 PM
  #12
Capn Brown
Registered User
 
Capn Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LombardiTool View Post
I think Jack Johnson is tradeable in that he can be a chip in a deal that brings quality back. I dont think he is expendable.

Johnson for Landeskog!!!

1 – Goalie (Quick) Rating :1
2 - Big ShutDown D (Mitchell) Rating :2
3 - PP QB D (Doughty) Rating :1
4 – Big First Line Center (Kopitar) Rating :1
5 - Shutdown Centerman (Richards) Rating :1
6 - Power Forward (Landeskog) Rating : 2 or 1
7 – Sniper (Williams) Rating :3




Hopefully, Toffoli or Kozun can become our eventual sniper.

Capn Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 01:53 PM
  #13
Snyper8
Registered User
 
Snyper8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hesperia
Country: United States
Posts: 158
vCash: 500
i wouldnt agree with rating doughty a 1. his qb skills are not very good.
agree with the other ratings.

Snyper8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 02:03 PM
  #14
Capn Brown
Registered User
 
Capn Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,493
vCash: 500
Could Parise be a sniper?

Capn Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 02:43 PM
  #15
ean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,802
vCash: 500
The 7 Tool thing sounds like they just took the 10-11 Bruins and categorized their 7 best players...

ean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 03:57 PM
  #16
BallPointHammer
Franchise Enforcer
 
BallPointHammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Maryland, USA
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 791
vCash: 500
Nice post.

I thought it would be interesting to point out the players currently under contract for 2013-14.

Doughty, Johnson, Greene
Richards, Kopitar, Williams, Brown, Westgarth

Deslaurier, Roach
Vey, Czarnik, Toffoli, Weal, Andreoff
Berube

Quick = UFA

Assuming Quick is signed to an extension - the model, the OP's version and the reality of Dean Lombardi's plan are in pretty close agreement.

BallPointHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 04:40 PM
  #17
tigermask48
Maniacal Laugh
 
tigermask48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: R'Lyeh, Antarctica
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 2,700
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
Great post!

This system needs a "depth" variable. So you'd have B and C players behind your number 1 in each category. In my mind, that means we need to keep Johnson as the developing B who will replace Mitchell as the shutdown defenseman.

And Williams is not really a "pure sniper", he's more playmaker than sniper, imho.
If you apply this logic I'd say Greene or Scuderi would be the B to Mitchell's A and Voinov, or Martinez would be the B to Doughty's A... Which still makes Johnson somewhat expendable... Agree with Williams though in that he isn't a true sniper but more of an all around skilled offensive forward.

tigermask48 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 04:43 PM
  #18
Mats26
Cup Champs
 
Mats26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
I'd probably rate Kopitar and Richards as 2s. I agree with the rest of your rankings.
I disagree. There is no way we are upgrading our 1A center nor will we for many years. Kopitar can match up against any 1A center in this league, and put up 70-80 pts on one of the lowest scoring teams in the NHL. There are teams out there that only dream to have that kind of player on their team. Giving him a rating of 1 means we are set at that postion and I am glad we have him.

Richards, who better to have on the ice with 30 secs left and a 1 goal lead. You are not going to find a better leader and competitor with the on ice vision he has. How will you upgrade that position. We are set for the shutdown role for years.

Mats26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 05:19 PM
  #19
acrethrills
Registered User
 
acrethrills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Vancouver Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 168
vCash: 500
I have serious issues with calling Williams our sniper. He's currently ranked 400th in the league in shooting percentage. 6.7%. Richards needs to shoot more, he's converting at a rate almost twice that of Williams. Williams is not a sniper. He's ranked 32nd in the league in shots, and 143rd in goals. That is not a sniper.

acrethrills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 05:28 PM
  #20
Johnny Utah
Registered User
 
Johnny Utah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 6,913
vCash: 500
It doesn't take a troll to argue some of these points....

Williams a sniper? Ha.

I love Mitchell, but he's a 34 year old shutdown D about to be a UFA...get me a 25 year old shutdown guy and I will say he is a core guy.

Johnny Utah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 05:46 PM
  #21
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
It doesn't take a troll to argue some of these points....

Williams a sniper? Ha.

I love Mitchell, but he's a 34 year old shutdown D about to be a UFA...get me a 25 year old shutdown guy and I will say he is a core guy.
I actually agree with this.

Mitchell isn't core, he is a shut down D, but if Muzzin can play that game, he would be considered Core.

Williams isn't a sniper...Gagne is more of a sniper etc..

If we want "core" to match with Kopitar, Quick, Brown, Richards, and Doughty,

Then you deal for guys in that age range, that fit what you need, and that's pretty damn expensive...but..in the end, could very well be worth it.

sjmay* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 05:52 PM
  #22
Moses Doughty
LA's offense offends
 
Moses Doughty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Drewbacca
Country: United States
Posts: 8,036
vCash: 500
Really like this core system, except for Brown. Hes better than a 3, hes a solid 2

Moses Doughty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 05:52 PM
  #23
Johnny Utah
Registered User
 
Johnny Utah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 6,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
I actually agree with this.

Mitchell isn't core, he is a shut down D, but if Muzzin can play that game, he would be considered Core.

Williams isn't a sniper...Gagne is more of a sniper etc..

If we want "core" to match with Kopitar, Quick, Brown, Richards, and Doughty,

Then you deal for guys in that age range, that fit what you need, and that's pretty damn expensive...but..in the end, could very well be worth it.
That is the Kings core. Add Johnson too. Mitchell, Williams, Gagne are all free agent compliments to the "core." Richardson, Lewis, Loktionov, and Clifford are young guys helping form the rest of the core...hopefully Nolan and King do too...Penner and Stoll are....um....well.....

Johnny Utah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 05:55 PM
  #24
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
That is the Kings core. Add Johnson too. Mitchell, Williams, Gagne are all free agent compliments to the "core." Richardson, Lewis, Loktionov, and Clifford are young guys helping form the rest of the core...hopefully Nolan and King do too...Penner and Stoll are....um....well.....
I meant using this system, and in the same age range....

using this system, and keeping in the age range, we are missing a sniper, and a shut down D...

I think Muzzin could be that shut down D...

sjmay* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 09:32 PM
  #25
funky
Registered User
 
funky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saskatoon, Sask
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,051
vCash: 500
Need theory

Kopitar is a #1

Richards is a great shut down guy but I would rather have a dedicated guy like Gaustad so the other 2 can concentrate on offence

Doughty needs a little more growth but he will be a great PP QB

Mitchell is great but may be gone, Greene lacks brains and mobility to be a true shutdown defenseman. JJ is improving by the month but it will never be his MO

Quick is as good as it gets. Vernier will be expendable.

Power and scoring forwards are not here. Brown, Williams and a healthy Gagne make a great supporting cast though

We need 2 forwards in a huge way. Parise is a wet dream via free agency and I think a trade is about the only way to get them.
We have some nice assets that are expendable in JJ, Bernier, Loktionov, Forbort, etc.

Gaustad would be awesome as a free agent and cheaper then Stoll.

I would throw the kitchen sink at Parise, lock up Quick and trade JJ for Stewart.

funky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:12 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.