Dubi will probably bounce back with 20, AA may get 20 same with step, add kreider who is at least 15 and then get semin who gives us anywhere from 35+ scoring won't be much of an issue.
Jordan Staal>Ryan and Nash. Ryan disappears for games and then scores a few goals. The Youtube goals. Puts the puck between his legs and has it hit his skate and then roofs it on his backhand.
I'm not a fan of Youtube scouting either, but you have to say something about the quantity of goals Ryan scores. 30 goals in each of the past 4 seasons. No Ranger has more than 2 30 goal seasons in that span.
Would you trade Zubov and Nedved for Samuelson and Robitaille again? If the answer is no than you don't make this trade.
A 40 point defenseman is EXTREMELY valuable.. especially if he is only 22. You know how many teams would kill to have a 50 point second line center who is only 22? All of them.
I wouldnt even trade MDZ straight up for Ryan. I would want Ryan and a prospect for MDZ. Anaheim walks out of that trade with the better player. MDZ is better now than Ryan is. 41 points and a Plus 20 for a defenseman. You DO NOT trade a guy like that. Doing so is simply retarded.
You're right except the bolded. If we go into the season next year with the same bunch of guys as we had in the playoffs without upgrading our top 6 in a pretty big way there's a good chance we're going to be the same bunch of guys from these past playoffs. Who couldn't score and whos defense wore out because it couldn't carry a team anymore that couldn't score some goals. I don't care how you look at it, the Rangers couldn't score in the playoffs and that's why we lost. Now with Gabby out for the first month or so at least...I'm just saying, if we don't do anything to those top 6 (especially for a 25 year old Ryan... he's still developing by the way) then the season will start without Gabs and we're going to have big problems.
You're right except the bolded. If we go into the season next year with the same bunch of guys as we had in the playoffs without upgrading our top 6 in a pretty big way there's a good chance we're going to be the same bunch of guys from these past playoffs. Who couldn't score and whos defense wore out because it couldn't carry a team anymore that couldn't score some goals. I don't care how you look at it, the Rangers couldn't score in the playoffs and that's why we lost. Now with Gabby out for the first month or so at least...I'm just saying, if we don't do anything to those top 6 (especially for a 25 year old Ryan... he's still developing by the way) then the season will start without Gabs and we're going to have big problems.
Okay. but you don't trade MDZ and Stepan for Ryan. Since we both agree MDZ is better than Ryan right now, why do we throw in our promising center for him?
MDZ for Ryan and Emerson Etem.
That's the only way I make the trade.
You'll find however that MDZ was vital to the success of this team and finding a guy as good as him on the point will be hard. Players like Zubov (MDZ) are a dime a dozen and don't come around too often.
Would you trade Zubov and Nedved for Samuelson and Robitaille again? If the answer is no than you don't make this trade.
A 40 point defenseman is EXTREMELY valuable.. especially if he is only 22. You know how many teams would kill to have a 50 point second line center who is only 22? All of them.
I wouldnt even trade MDZ straight up for Ryan. I would want Ryan and a prospect for MDZ. Anaheim walks out of that trade with the better player. MDZ is better now than Ryan is. 41 points and a Plus 20 for a defenseman. You DO NOT trade a guy like that. Doing so is simply retarded. Guys like Ryan have 14-15 year careers and tail off in their early 30's. Guys like MDZ can play into their early 40's and never really tail off. MDZ will be a Zubov-esq player. 40-55 point defenseman with about 12-15 goals each year and a plus 20 rating. And he will perform like that until he is 40 barring a major injury. Ryan has 6-7 good years left. You can tell MDZ isn't a fluke. His point play got so much better as the season progressed and was pretty damn good in the playoffs.
I highly disagree with just about every sentence here. On no planet is Del Zotto a more valuable player than Ryan.
Ryan is not perfect, but he is a top 15 wing in this league and scores 30-35 goals in each of his first four NHL seasons without 1st unit PP time. On this team, he would be a 35-40 goal scorer. Del Zotto is a second pairing defenseman who, despite his 40 points last season, was not a major factor offensively at all. He will no doubt get better, but he's not going to be a first pairing defenseman, and he's not a great offensive or defensive player. He has yet to show that he can be effective doing both at the same time. Ryan is one of the most dangerous goalscorers in the league, and at only 25, can still become more of the power forward a man with his size should be.
Not in everyone's eyes he isn't. Given the choice, I'd take Staal every time. He's the total package. Elite in his own end, physical, 70+ point upside. Ryan is a great goal scorer, but he can't touch Staal in the defensive or neutral zones. Give me a complete #1 center over a streaky goal scoring winger any day.
I highly disagree with just about every sentence here. On no planet is Del Zotto a more valuable player than Ryan.
Ryan is not perfect, but he is a top 15 wing in this league and scores 30-35 goals in each of his first four NHL seasons without 1st unit PP time. On this team, he would be a 35-40 goal scorer. Del Zotto is a second pairing defenseman who, despite his 40 points last season, was not a major factor offensively at all. He will no doubt get better, but he's not going to be a first pairing defenseman, and he's not a great offensive or defensive player. He has yet to show that he can be effective doing both at the same time. Ryan is one of the most dangerous goalscorers in the league, and at only 25, can still become more of the power forward a man with his size should be.
Well in 15 years, if I'm right, you can buy me a steak. If you are, I'll buy you a steak. But just for future reference since I know I am right, I like the Dry Aged Côte de Boeuf from Minetta Tavern all to myself. Medium rare with mashed potatoes.
Yeah, I realized that after I posted. Not sure why we would have to add an A level prospect to the deal. Kane has more value than Dubinsky, Del Zotto has more value than Hjalmarsson. The difference between Kane-Dubinsky is greater than Del Zotto-Hjalmarsson, and thus Thomas and a 1st.
I can stomach moving Del Zotto for Ryan since Ryan is still very young and has upside. He fills a huge hole in the lineup and doesn't have a cap crippling contract like Rick Nash. Del Zotto, as much as I like him, could be replaced by our top prospect Tim Erixon on the 3rd pairing. I expect big things from Erixon soon.
Yeah, I realized that after I posted. Not sure why we would have to add an A level prospect to the deal. Kane has more value than Dubinsky, Del Zotto has more value than Hjalmarsson. The difference between Kane-Dubinsky is greater than Del Zotto-Hjalmarsson, and thus Thomas and a 1st.
It actually makes more sense to just do Stepan, Thomas/Erixon, 1st for Kane.
Kane can play center pretty well and is one of the few people I'd trade Stepan for since they are both young and Kane will be a better player.
It actually makes more sense to just do Stepan, Thomas/Erixon, 1st for Kane.
Kane can play center pretty well and is one of the few people I'd trade Stepan for since they are both young and Kane will be a better player.
In my mind, there is no scenario in which it makes more sense to trade Stepan, period.
Well in 15 years, if I'm right, you can buy me a steak. If you are, I'll buy you a steak. But just for future reference since I know I am right, I like the Dry Aged Côte de Boeuf from Minetta Tavern all to myself. Medium rare with mashed potatoes.
in 15 years it wont matter. We need an impact player on our top 6. Luckily for me, Sather is most likely thinking the same thing and will pull something out of his hat for us and well have better offense next season. The fact that we had to look to a kid straight out of college to carry us that late into the playoffs is ****ing erroneous.
So trade one 50 point center (Stepan) and a 40 point defenseman(MDZ) who are both 22 and can only get better plus a 1st for a 55-62 point wing (Ryan) or a 62-65 (Nash) point wing who are both in their prime and have massive contracts. Definitely a head scratcher to me...
This. This is what I've been kicking around in my head. At first, I wanted one of the two big, sexy names. But now after thinking it all over, I want to sign someone like Doan, Smyth, Huselius (if healthy) or Whitney that could play on the second line and not cost us big bucks or any of our prospects. Maybe then trade for a Defensemen that wouldn't cost as much and not trade any of roster players excpet maybe Ansimov. I don't wanna trade Dubi simply cause I think hes gonna have a nice year next season
I highly disagree with just about every sentence here. On no planet is Del Zotto a more valuable player than Ryan.
Ryan is not perfect, but he is a top 15 wing in this league and scores 30-35 goals in each of his first four NHL seasons without 1st unit PP time. On this team, he would be a 35-40 goal scorer. Del Zotto is a second pairing defenseman who, despite his 40 points last season, was not a major factor offensively at all. He will no doubt get better, but he's not going to be a first pairing defenseman, and he's not a great offensive or defensive player. He has yet to show that he can be effective doing both at the same time. Ryan is one of the most dangerous goalscorers in the league, and at only 25, can still become more of the power forward a man with his size should be.
I think both of you have legitimate arguments but if we are talking about Anaheim, they have a player exactly like Michael Del Zotto in Cam Fowler who is a year younger. The player that would get us a straight swap for Ryan would be Marc Staal because that is something that the Ducks do not currently possess. It would be tough to trade Staal considering he is one of the backbones to our defense. However, Staal would get us Ryan I think straight up and we would still have McDonugh, Del Zotto, and Erixon on the left side for the next 10 years barring any injurys or trades. I am no way advocating to trade Staal but if we need offense, maybe Bobby Ryan is the answer. The only way I would even consider doing this trade is if we are able to get Schultz and our defense would look like this:
If we get an adequete filler on the third and fourth lines, such as say a Radek Dvorak on the third line and someone from Hartford, maybe Wellman, this team could do some damage.
Last edited by PavelBure9: 06-25-2012 at 10:33 AM.
Jordan Staal>Ryan and Nash. Ryan disappears for games and then scores a few goals. The Youtube goals. Puts the puck between his legs and has it hit his skate and then roofs it on his backhand.
Jordan Staal is nowhere near the offensive player either Ryan and Nash are. And as a center, he's not a playmaker. He has yet to score 30 goals. Yes, he scored 29 one year but 7 were shorthanded goals and you can't count on that kind of productivity (he's only had 6 shorties in the 5 seasons since). I understand he's only 23, so it all depends on what upside you think he has but if you choose Staal over Ryan or Nash, it's based on your take of the future and not on any thing that's actually happened yet.
I'm just thankful Pittsburgh isn't better at drafting when the #1 isn't handed to them. Imagine if they had taken Toews instead of Staal (or even Backstrom or Kessel).
I can stomach moving Del Zotto for Ryan since Ryan is still very young and has upside. He fills a huge hole in the lineup and doesn't have a cap crippling contract like Rick Nash. Del Zotto, as much as I like him, could be replaced by our top prospect Tim Erixon on the 3rd pairing. I expect big things from Erixon soon.
Erixon is an unknown quantity. He has played 18 NHL games with 2 points vs. MDZ's 204 with 89 points. MDZ is only about 8 months older than Erixon as well.
I'm not saying Erixon will be any better, worse, or the same as MDZ... but until he proves that he is as good, there is no way you trade MDZ because you think Erixon may be better.
