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The Offseason Thread Part X: Bobby, we're better than Philly!

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Old
06-24-2012, 10:48 PM
  #51
WhipNash27
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So what happens in Dubi goes back to being a 20+ goal player? Let's not forget that two years ago he was the top point scorer on the team. I can't imagine that he'll be as bad as he was last year.

Then we have Kreider coming in full-time and all of the young players will be a year older. If the Rangers make no big moves I wouldn't be all that upset. It would be good if they get some lower line players who can score 10-15 goals per season though.

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06-24-2012, 10:48 PM
  #52
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Ponikarovsky and Stempniak? No thanks.

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06-24-2012, 10:49 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by we want the cup 94 View Post
Listen Its tough to let a guy go you have been watching for a few years ( core ) guys . They all came up through the system drafted ect .
Sometimes you need to bite the bullet and let them go . If it is Dubi , mdz, Staal , Miller , thomas, ect .

Mcd ,Ck , Hank ,Richards should be the only untouchables ... Everyone eles could get dealt in the right move .

Parise isnt coming here .. i dont see it happening truthfully i dont want him . I know it will only take cash its just something that scares me with him. Nash i want something tells me if we get him he will go HAM and score 40+ with 30-45 asst . Ryan i would like he is young but with the team he plays with now and the guys shouldnt he be putting up 85-100 pts .

Back in 94 we had to trade away some guys we all loved but look what it brought us .
Its only a matter of time before Nash breaks his silence and goes off . I think his list is 3 teams . NYR ,Sharks , maybe Philly or LA . Philly is out i believe LA not happening . Sharks i dont think they have a package with out couture that is as goos as ours .

Say Dubi , AA, Thomas, DM , 1st two 3rds next year .

Over payment maybe but i truly believe and slats to Nash will put us over the hump.
This isnt the slats from 2000-05 .
Its different now He knows what it takes and I think Nash is one of the missing pieces .


Back in 94 we traded away guys to win at the moment which hurt us long term and gave us no future. You don't trade away players because it worked 18 years ago, you build for the future and you don't dismantle the team. I'm 19 and i don't remember 94 but even i know there was really no excellent year after that except 97 and then it went downhill from there. You build for the future, not the present. We build to win 2-3 cups, not just 1 every 2 decades.

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06-24-2012, 10:49 PM
  #54
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Ponikarovsky and Stempniak? No thanks.


Why?

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06-24-2012, 10:50 PM
  #55
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Not to be a dick but weren't you the one in the Nash thread on the Trade/Free Agent board that said the only fair offer was the ridiculous overpayment some Ottawa fan proposed?

Michalek
Zibanejad
Cowen
1st

Something like that?
Nah...I probably said hell yeah to the trade though lol

Cowen (really good young defenseman is overpayment for sure). We are looking for forwards anyway. I really love Ottawa as a trade partner and get blasted for it by our own fanbase, saying its "magic bean" deals for unknowns.

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06-24-2012, 10:50 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Hehe....I see what you did there.

I consider a prospect somebody who has yet to play half a season in the league.

Mika Zbenijad (Ottawa) played ten games at the start of last season (prospect)
Robin Lehner (Ottawa) stud goalie who played really well in spot duty last year (prospect)
Adam Larson (New Jersey) Defensemen who played significantly but spent a lot of time in the minors (still a prospect).

The line between prospect and young roster player can become blurry.
Larsson didn't spend any time in the minors afaik. He was a healthy scratch occasionally, but still played 65+games.

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06-24-2012, 10:51 PM
  #57
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It is too much to ask for, explain to me what gives him the right to play terrible when other stars play on crappy teams and they give it their all, please tell me. And everything is a hockey trade because it's hockey.......it is an unrealistic hockey trade when you ask for 21 year olds like Stepan who put up 51 points with no scoring help and a kid like Kreider who came in the playoffs and basically put the team on his back, you don't trade guys like that for a guy like Nash just because YOU think he is a star, 7.8 million doesn't make you a star.
Nash is easily the most highly overrated player in the league. He is soft as Charmin and is more inconsistent than Gaborik and Richards combined. He scores goals in bunches and then disappears for 8-10 games.

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06-24-2012, 10:51 PM
  #58
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Everyone knows that in order for us to get Nash we will have to break up the core plus add another crazy contract. I say **** Nash!!!

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06-24-2012, 10:51 PM
  #59
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I agree, i wanted Moen when Montreal signed him and i still want him here, good player to have on the bottom 6 in the playoffs and we need guys like that now. I like the way you think.
thx. i wouldn't hold up a deal for Ryan over Stepan though. Depending on who else we would send Anaheim's way, we could post AA there or Dubinsky. Maybe get creative and swing a deal for another center?

Guys like Ryan don't come around often and i would hate to see him end up in Philthy. For that reason alone we should be aggressive.

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06-24-2012, 10:51 PM
  #60
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Why?
For our top six? Do I need to explain it to you?

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06-24-2012, 10:53 PM
  #61
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Ok now can you tell me how many goals Kreider will score in his rookie season? How many goals will Dubi rebound with? You seem to think Nash will score 35 for the sake of being Nash. If he scored 25 would you be mad?
If kreider comes close to 30 we're fine a lot to expect from a rookie and maybe dubi rebounds to 20+ than with kreider and maybe a ufa like Doan Semin Whitney we would be fine just a lot of ifs

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06-24-2012, 10:54 PM
  #62
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Nash is easily the most highly overrated player in the league. He is soft as Charmin and is more inconsistent than Gaborik and Richards combined. He scores goals in bunches and then disappears for 8-10 games.
That's not true. Nash is absolutely a better player than Bobby Ryan right now.

The only reason I would prefer Ryan is caphit, age and potential. He could grow with us. Nash will be just like Richards and Gaborik.

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06-24-2012, 10:55 PM
  #63
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Let's think about that for a minute.
Dubi and Kreider or Stepan for Nash.

Scenario 1:
Nash - Richards - Gabby
Hagelin - Stepan - Cally
??? - Anisimov - ???
Rupp - Boyle - XXX

Scenario 2:
Nash - Richards - Gabby
Kreider - Anisimov - Cally
Hagelin - ??? - ???
Rupp - Boyle - XXX

The trade filled 1 spot but created a void in another.
Saying that Dubi going back will help offset Nash's contract is not really true, because you have to go out and sign FAs to fill the hole the trade left on the team, either 3C or 3LW.

I would rather go with this
Semin - Richards - Gabby
Kreider - Stepan - Cally
Hags - AA - Dubi

Semin is not ideal but he can score. With the team's defensive system, his defensive warts can be hidden. This will also allow the kids to develop in OUR system instead of somebody else's.

Ryan/Nash was a nice dream, but at these prices, I would rather pass and build from within.
How long have we been building from within . The year after The lockout . 80% of our team are boarder line 2line players more 3rd ... Gabby is going to be out till DEC/JAN.
who is scoring for this team ? What if Semin is a headcase ... Nash or Ryan are the way to go . Keep building from within and Hank will be to old and Gabby will be gone . We dont have that ELITE PLAYER BESIDES HANK ... PHilly will get better , Pens got better we stay the same plus minus Gabs ... It will be a long sad season ....

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06-24-2012, 10:55 PM
  #64
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For our top six? Do I need to explain it to you?
Poni for our bottom 6 would be great. Players like him were a big reason why NJ beat us in the series.

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06-24-2012, 10:55 PM
  #65
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thx. i wouldn't hold up a deal for Ryan over Stepan though. Depending on who else we would send Anaheim's way, we could post AA there or Dubinsky. Maybe get creative and swing a deal for another center?

Guys like Ryan don't come around often and i would hate to see him end up in Philthy. For that reason alone we should be aggressive.



NP. And eh i like Stepan tho, i think he will be a pretty good player who will get a line going. I would try to trade AA for Ryan before i trade Stepan since Stepan has more upside IMO. I'm not sure what other centers there are out there who would be available but i don't know. Trading Stepan now seems like a bad idea since hs is so young, if he was 24-25 it would be different like AA is but Stepan is 21-22 and has 3 years to go before he is AA's age and in those 3 years he can develop into a great center. Then again guys like Ryan don't grow on trees and usually never hit FA. Losing Stepan leaves a hole at center tho.

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06-24-2012, 10:55 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
If kreider comes close to 30 we're fine a lot to expect from a rookie and maybe dubi rebounds to 20+ than with kreider and maybe a ufa like Doan Semin Whitney we would be fine just a lot of ifs
Dubi rebounding to 20 is that counting empty betters?

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06-24-2012, 10:56 PM
  #67
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I absolutely hate the cap hit and I can see why others don't want him because of it, but to question his talent and goal scoring ability? No
I get it....makes sense

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06-24-2012, 10:56 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Thanks for responding.....I learn a lot from the cap posts (seriously) good stuff.

Couple clarifications though:

Richards is 27 now (and 8 months younger than Nash)
--At the time he was traded he was 26 yrs and 4 months old (when dealt)
--Nash turned 28 a week ago so if he was dealt (I really can't believe we are splitting hairs about age like this but whatever.....

In present value the Richards trade would be 1.5 years younger not 3 (that is fudging numbers that are irrelevant anyway over the next 3-4 years)

If Nash went to the Rangers imo with what they have they would be cup favorites....
Only Ovie has scored more goals the last seven years than Nash....okay.

Regarding the picks: The Rangers will be really good so the a "safe bet" is the pick would be really late. The difference between a late first and a late 2nd is neglible. Any pick outside the top 6 or 7 is really a crapshoot anyway.

If you don't want to affect the core, or as Sather would say "dismantle" a little dramatic (lol) then we would need your top prospect imo....And we know who that is.

Sather might want to move forward as is which is okay as well...
Well, here's where you're wrong. Trading Nash for either Kreider or Stepan DOES NOT make the rangers suddenly a favorite to get out of the east.

1. Stepan is our 2nd line center. Our 2nd best puck distributor behind Richards. You trade him in the Nash deal, you have no one to get Nash the puck OR no one to get Gaborik the puck. And if you put Nash and Gabby on a line with Richards then we're back to one scoring line. So, that doesn't work.

2. Kreider was the single most effective forward in the ECF at 20. He was more effective than Schenn after a full year. And he's what? 6 or 7 million dollars cheaper than Nash and 4 or 5 years from his prime. I know that Nash is a better player than Kreider is right now, but I can't justify trading them straight up in the cap era.

Bottom line. And we can talk this out all day. You need to figure out a Nash trade that does not include Stepan and Kreider or you need to tell Nash to approve a trade to another team as I think his list is incredibly narrow.

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06-24-2012, 10:56 PM
  #69
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That's not true. Nash is absolutely a better player than Bobby Ryan right now.

The only reason I would prefer Ryan is caphit, age and potential. He could grow with us. Nash will be just like Richards and Gaborik.
Ryan is a poor man's Nash. Nash is a very poor man's Kovalev who costs 10 times as much. I wouldnt pay 8 mil for Kovalev in his prime. Why would I pay 8 mil for his half as good clone or 5 mil for his 1/4th as good clone?

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06-24-2012, 10:56 PM
  #70
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So what happens in Dubi goes back to being a 20+ goal player? Let's not forget that two years ago he was the top point scorer on the team. I can't imagine that he'll be as bad as he was last year.

Then we have Kreider coming in full-time and all of the young players will be a year older. If the Rangers make no big moves I wouldn't be all that upset. It would be good if they get some lower line players who can score 10-15 goals per season though.
like I said a lot of ifs we could be ok or we could be even worse especially early on with Gabs out

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06-24-2012, 10:56 PM
  #71
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For our top six? Do I need to explain it to you?

Yes you do because we got beat down by Poni in the playoffs, him and Carter crapped all over us. How would Poni NOT help the top 6? Please explain.

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06-24-2012, 10:57 PM
  #72
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Poni in our top 6. You clazy.

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06-24-2012, 10:58 PM
  #73
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Poni for our bottom 6 would be great. Players like him were a big reason why NJ beat us in the series.
Bottom six for Poni I could handle, he said one of the two in the top six though. Which I said no thanks too.

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06-24-2012, 10:59 PM
  #74
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Yes you do because we got beat down by Poni in the playoffs, him and Carter crapped all over us. How would Poni NOT help the top 6? Please explain.
If I have to explain this to you, just like I had to explain what caliber player Evander Kane is to you then I'm wasting my time.

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06-24-2012, 10:59 PM
  #75
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How long have we been building from within . The year after The lockout . 80% of our team are boarder line 2line players more 3rd ... Gabby is going to be out till DEC/JAN.
who is scoring for this team ? What if Semin is a headcase ... Nash or Ryan are the way to go . Keep building from within and Hank will be to old and Gabby will be gone . We dont have that ELITE PLAYER BESIDES HANK ... PHilly will get better , Pens got better we stay the same plus minus Gabs ... It will be a long sad season ....


You're overreacting just a little bit. We won without Gaborik before, i doubt we will be out of playoff contention by the time December/January comes, we have too much heart to go down that easy. We will be ok without Gaborik for a few months, other guys will step up, after all it is a team game.

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