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The Offseason Thread Part X: Bobby, we're better than Philly!

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06-26-2012, 09:45 PM
  #851
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Originally Posted by Leetch66 View Post
Not much chance of Biron getting any better IMO at this stage of his life . I would much rather sign the Monster Gustafsson . Probably would play for less to learn from the King...and could turn out to be an asset down the road for us once he regains some confidence playing behind a team that can play defense . Opps...sorry...thought I was in the Biron thread .
Just posted the same thing, doesn't have to be in the Biron thread, it's about acquiring Gustafsson..I kinda like the idea, not to sure he would though...

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06-26-2012, 09:45 PM
  #852
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yep and they made it to the West Finals. Its pretty simple, Either a great vet like Doan at 2 yrs or trading the Farm for a Nash,Ryan type.

Given last yrs performance give me the gritty vet and keep rolling with the current group who should only get better with age
Yeah, not to mention, getting Doan to a 2 year deal allows Sather cap flexibility. He can actively get an upgrade for our 3rd line center or another veteran Dman.

It makes way more sense than Nash or Ryan.

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06-26-2012, 09:49 PM
  #853
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I doubt Doan will sign anywhere but Phoenix.
If there is no major trade, Torts would probably start Dubi on the first line. Keeping Kreider with Stepan on the second line makes a lot of sense.

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06-26-2012, 09:49 PM
  #854
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Because he's 35 and you never know when a guy's effectiveness is going to be diminished. Because we have a coach who doesn't believe in writing down lineups in pen. Because we have more forward depth than the Coyotes. There's three and there are plenty more.
Dude, its always a risk. Dubinsky, in his twenties, just completely regressed for a year. Doan could have an even better year with playing Richards and Gabs. We don't know. What I do know is that he can bring a consistent physical presence to that lineup. He didn't show slowing down in the playoffs this year.

Cap wise, he is probably the best bang for your buck, and you don't have to give up mountains of players to acquire him.

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06-26-2012, 09:51 PM
  #855
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Let's just remember that Doan had a pretty similar statistical performance to Gaborik in the playoffs on a team that was slightly better offensively than the Rangers were and without the shoulder injury. Yes, he plays a more in your face style of game, but that's not what I'm getting at.

The danger in this, which is what I'm warning about, is that we expect more out of the guy than he will produce.

He's going to be a 50-point player next year on the Rangers. We could absolutely use another one of those. I too like this idea a helluva lot more than trading assets for Nash or Ryan. I am absolutely not against signing the guy. In fact, I mentioned signing him 3 or 4 weeks ago. Let's just not expect 30 goals and 65 points out of him, hmm?

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06-26-2012, 09:52 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I understand that he switches sides pretty well, although you're right that RW is his main position.
comes down to this, Name a better UFA option? I personally dont see one so that's why so many are on the side of signing Doan

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06-26-2012, 09:53 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
comes down to this, Name a better UFA option? I personally dont see one so that's why so many are on the side of signing Doan
I'm not against signing the guy. You'll never be able to quote me as saying not to.

I'm still interested in Stempniak or Moss as well.

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06-26-2012, 09:53 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Let's just remember that Doan had a pretty similar statistical performance to Gaborik in the playoffs on a team that was slightly better offensively than the Rangers were and without the shoulder injury. Yes, he plays a more in your face style of game, but that's not what I'm getting at.

The danger in this, which is what I'm warning about, is that we expect more out of the guy than he will produce.

He's going to be a 50-point player next year on the Rangers. We could absolutely use another one of those. I too like this idea a helluva lot more than trading assets for Nash or Ryan. Let's just not expect 30 goals and 65 points out of him, hmm?
All I expect out of Doan is to open space for Richards and Gabs. If he can do that effectively, and consistently-it will be worth acquiring him. I don't care if he gets 45 pts or he gets 80. If he can make those two better, I will be happy.

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06-26-2012, 09:55 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Let's just remember that Doan had a pretty similar statistical performance to Gaborik in the playoffs on a team that was slightly better offensively than the Rangers were and without the shoulder injury. Yes, he plays a more in your face style of game, but that's not what I'm getting at.

The danger in this, which is what I'm warning about, is that we expect more out of the guy than he will produce.

He's going to be a 50-point player next year on the Rangers. We could absolutely use another one of those. I too like this idea a helluva lot more than trading assets for Nash or Ryan. Let's just not expect 30 goals and 65 points out of him, hmm?
His production offensively isn't the big draw to playing him on the first line. Frankly, his numbers could go down 10-15 points, and it wouldn't bother me. I want him there because I know he's going to get something respectable, but more importantly, his style of play will help the other two players on his line play their game.

He can't be a better fit on another line because there is no better fit on that line. There are basically only three possible choices for that 1st line LW spot if Doan were to sign with the team: Doan, Dubinsky, Kreider. Who the heck knows what you're going to get from Dubinsky, and I just think it would make a lot more sense for a number of reasons to play Kreider with Stepan.

If Dubinsky tears it up in camp, fine, give him a shot there. I just can't see any realistic scenario where, if they're both options, Dubinsky shows him self to be a better option for Richards and Gaborik than Doan.

If we don't get Doan, and can't trade for Ryan or don't trade for Nash, I'd be shocked if we didn't end up with Smyth for the same role. I just think Doan is better than Smyth.

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06-26-2012, 09:55 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
All I expect out of Doan is to open space for Richards and Gabs. If he can do that effectively, and consistently-it will be worth acquiring him. I don't care if he gets 45 pts or he gets 80. If he can make those two better, I will be happy.
*sigh* But if he doesn't open up space for Gaborik and Richards, but fits better elsewhere in the lineup while someone else slots better into that spot? Will you be disappointed then?

No one predicted that our best options to play with Gaborik for half the year last year would be Anisimov and Stepan. Nobody predicted that when Richards and Gaborik finally clicked, it would be because of Carl Hagelin. Keep an open mind, people.

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06-26-2012, 09:57 PM
  #861
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*sigh* But if he doesn't open up space for Gaborik and Richards, but fits better elsewhere in the lineup while someone else slots better into that spot? Will you be disappointed then?
Dude, he was doing first line Power forward duties last year. He isn't going to regress that dramatically in one season.

You want to talk three years from now fine.

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06-26-2012, 09:57 PM
  #862
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Unlikely Doan moves, why would he? Even with all the ownership b.s., why would he decide to bolt as an UFA at this point in his career, if anything he would move at the deadline if the Coyote's are struggling...

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06-26-2012, 09:58 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
*sigh* But if he doesn't open up space for Gaborik and Richards, but fits better elsewhere in the lineup while someone else slots better into that spot? Will you be disappointed then?

No one predicted that our best options to play with Gaborik for half the year last year would be Anisimov and Stepan. Nobody predicted that when Richards and Gaborik finally clicked, it would be because of Carl Hagelin. Keep an open mind, people.
nope he could be a great fit with Cally and Stepan as well or however the heck they want to shape the lineup. Not our call. I think we can agree he would be a good addition in whatever role he is given

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06-26-2012, 10:00 PM
  #864
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Why the **** do people wanna trade for Stepan for Subban? We already have one of the best defenses in the league so how would we benefit from trading one of our young forwards who scored 51 points on a team with no offense? Subban will fix what problems? The problem wasn't the defense, it was the ****ing offense that couldn't score goals, hell our defense scored most of our goals in the playoffs! What a ****ing joke.

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06-26-2012, 10:00 PM
  #865
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Doan would be a great fit on practically any line. Who else on the team, however, is going to be a better fit than him on the first line? Based on last season, particularly the playoffs, nobody.

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06-26-2012, 10:02 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Dude, he was doing first line Power forward duties last year. He isn't going to regress that dramatically in one season.

You want to talk three years from now fine.
You want me to name all the players who have regressed dramatically from one year to the next in a late stage of their career? Particularly power forward types? It happens regularly. You simply cannot predict, from one player to the next, when it will happen. And the guys who stick around? They usually had to reinvent their game, which is yet another thing unpredictable from one player to the next.

Beyond that, there's still the issue of whether or not Doan clicks with Richards and Gaborik, power forward game or not. Simply saying it would be so because logic tells you it would does not mean anything to me at all. Haven't we been through that kind of thing enough?

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06-26-2012, 10:06 PM
  #867
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
You want me to name all the players who have regressed dramatically from one year to the next in a late stage of their career? Particularly power forward types? It happens regularly. You simply cannot predict, from one player to the next, when it will happen. And the guys who stick around? They usually had to reinvent their game, which is yet another thing unpredictable from one player to the next.

Beyond that, there's still the issue of whether or not Doan clicks with Richards and Gaborik, power forward game or not. Simply saying it would be so because logic tells you it would does not mean anything to me at all. Haven't we been through that kind of thing enough?
The team has second and third liners. You don't pay a guy 5 million dollars, which is probably the salary Doan will command, to play on the second or third lines. Without a doubt, there are numerous risks involved, but that's the kind of risk you are forced to take when you can't produce the players needed to play on the first line from within. Maybe it needs to be said again: the Rangers have not produced a homegrown legitimate first line forward in several decades, at least not one that they kept past his rookie year.

So you have to take risks like this, just as you have to take risks like signing Richards to a long-term deal. It's either risks like this, or much bigger risks like trying to sign Parise or trade for Nash/Ryan.

If we had a guy on the roster today that was a real, viable option for that 1st line LW, we wouldn't need to be signing Doan.

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06-26-2012, 10:09 PM
  #868
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You want me to name all the players who have regressed dramatically from one year to the next in a late stage of their career? Particularly power forward types? It happens regularly. You simply cannot predict, from one player to the next, when it will happen. And the guys who stick around? They usually had to reinvent their game, which is yet another thing unpredictable from one player to the next.

Beyond that, there's still the issue of whether or not Doan clicks with Richards and Gaborik, power forward game or not. Simply saying it would be so because logic tells you it would does not mean anything to me at all. Haven't we been through that kind of thing enough?
Same could be said for Ryan, Nash, the hamburgler, any player in the NHL not named Loui Erickson. Its always a risk. But, its a risk that that doesn't cost us any players in a trade and at a reasonable price.

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06-26-2012, 10:09 PM
  #869
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The team has second and third liners. You don't pay a guy 5 million dollars, which is probably the salary Doan will command, to play on the second or third lines. Without a doubt, there are numerous risks involved, but that's the kind of risk you are forced to take when you can't produce the players needed to play on the first line from within. Maybe it needs to be said again: the Rangers have not produced a homegrown legitimate first line forward in several decades, at least not one that they kept past his rookie year.

So you have to take risks like this, just as you have to take risks like signing Richards to a long-term deal. It's either risks like this, or much bigger risks like trying to sign Parise or trade for Nash/Ryan.
I'm not against signing him. I'm not against signing him for $5m, which by the way IS the going rate for 2nd liners on short term contracts on the UFA market. I have no problem taking the risk. I just don't see the point in dismissing the risks just because logic tells me he should be a good fit on the first line. The great thing about this idea is that Doan would work anywhere. If he doesn't work on the first line, this team has enough options that I believe someone will. It doesn't matter to me who does.

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06-26-2012, 10:10 PM
  #870
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Same could be said for Ryan, Nash, the hamburgler, any player in the NHL not named Loui Erickson. Its always a risk. But, its a risk that that doesn't cost us any players in a trade and even at a reasonable price.
For the dozenth time... I'm not against bringing him in. You don't need to convince me.

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06-26-2012, 10:11 PM
  #871
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If we had a guy on the roster today that was a real, viable option for that 1st line LW, we wouldn't need to be signing Doan.
Well, here we absolutely disagree. We have a bigger depth problem on the right wing than on the left.

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06-26-2012, 10:14 PM
  #872
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For the dozenth time... I'm not against bringing him in.
No, your saying he doesn't fit a first line role. Outside of his age, you haven't really provided how he doesn't fit as a power forward on the first line.

You think he will dramatically decline(or that he might), and I say you take that risk. I don't feel he will decline that much, and he can effectively continue that role from what I saw last year.

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06-26-2012, 10:15 PM
  #873
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Doan will not be playing on the 1st line if he ever came here anyway. Why would you put offensive players on one line? Why not spread it throughout the lineup?

Kreider-Stepan-Callahan
Dubinsky-Richards-Doan
Hagelin-AA-?
Rupp-Boyle-?

when Gaborik comes back

Kreider-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Stepan-Callahan
Hagelin-AA-Doan
Rupp-Boyle-?

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06-26-2012, 10:18 PM
  #874
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I forgot Fedotenko, i assumed he will not be resigned so i made my lineups without him.

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06-26-2012, 10:20 PM
  #875
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Well, here we absolutely disagree. We have a bigger depth problem on the right wing than on the left.
The fact that we had a rookie role player called up mid-season filling that role in the playoffs tells you everything you need to know about the LW needs of the team.

There is a bigger issue with the RW than LW on the depth chart.

We have a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 4th line LW. We may only have a 1st and a 2nd line RW, depending on what happens with Dubinsky. If they sign a veteran like Smyth or Doan, and keep Dubinsky, Anisimov probably slots in as the 3rd RW. The point is that the 1st line LW is a much bigger hole than 3rd or 4th RW, and harder to fill. And yes, I disagree. I don't believe we have someone to fill that 1st line LW NEXT season on the roster today. Not if we plan on doing better than we did this season, anyway.

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