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Offseason Discussion VII: Never Go Full-Rossi (Contract chart/FA list in Post #1)

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06-25-2012, 09:50 AM
  #101
TorstenFrings
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I was wondering whether Shero saw the Michalek/Martin situation completely the other way around than most fans and he probably does.
Not saying there is a huge demand for Martin, but the Michalek return really didn't make me think, that Shero was forced to deal him, because he could not find a similar crap deal for Martin. He dumped the one he wanted to dump, I believe.

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06-25-2012, 09:52 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
He dumped the one he wanted to dump, I believe.
Probably true in the sense that if he planned to cut both loose, he knew / knows he can get something better for Martin, although I still dislike the return for Michalek. Doesn't sit any better with me today, having had some time to think about it.

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06-25-2012, 09:52 AM
  #103
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"Shero on young D pushing for a job after Michalek deal: 'The three main guys right now are Simon Despres, Brian Strait and Robert Bortuzzo.'"

I think the key word here is MAIN. Yes, those three are the main guys, because the latter two could be lost for nothing if they don't make it this time. But Dumoulin, Morrow, Harrington are REALLY close, too. IMO Dumoulin is going to make this team, somehow some way.

As for Despres rumors, I view it as "if David Poile wants to talk Shea Weber, Despres is available. Otherwise, he's untouchable."

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06-25-2012, 09:53 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
I was wondering whether Shero saw the Michalek/Martin situation completely the other way around than most fans and he probably does.
Not saying there is a huge demand for Martin, but the Michalek return really didn't make me think, that Shero was forced to deal him, because he could not find a similar crap deal for Martin. He dumped the one he wanted to dump, I believe.
I think you are spot on with that.

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06-25-2012, 09:53 AM
  #105
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Would not surprise me. The rumor has been that Shero doesn't want to move him until he's positive he can acquire another quality D-Man. Sounds like Martin is his fallback if he doesn't get Suter or can't swing a trade for Yandle or another name D that may be put on the market.
Sounds like Ray probably is doing the same thing up front. Yeah, Parise is plan A, but I'll be stunned if Sully is plan B (or even plan C).

Odd as it sounds, what was seen as the whole Staal debacle at one time may (and I think WILL) prove to be the catalyst that rejuvenates this organization, which I guess is another way of saying 'Ray ain't ******* around anymore'.

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06-25-2012, 09:54 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Also I saw on Puck Daddy this morning Nashville got a new lease with the arena that includes $8M in incentives for the team every year. So it may be less and less likely Nashville lets either guy go, though IMO there is no chance they will let Weber go unless he asks for something absurd / that would hamstring their entire operation... in which case we don't want him either.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...5834--nhl.html
I really hope Suter makes Shero's decision for him and signs elsewhere quickly. Why the hell do we keep drafting defenseman after defenseman? Give those kids a shot at playing on the cheap. We have next to nothing in terms of top-6 forward talent in the near future and down the road. Parise is by far the larger need than signing any defenseman to a $7M+ contract. We MIGHT take a step backwards next year on defense, but I'd argue that by the end of the season and into next season we'll be a MUCH stronger team if we sign Parise, and let one or more of our blue chip defensive prospects play consistent NHL minutes.

In the future we'd be loaded with talent on the front end, and we'd be loaded with talent on the back end that we are paying next to nothing for. This is opposed to being loaded with talent on the back end that you are paying some serious cash too, and thin on the front end without having any more money to spend.

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06-25-2012, 09:56 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Would not surprise me. The rumor has been that Shero doesn't want to move him until he's positive he can acquire another quality D-Man. Sounds like Martin is his fallback if he doesn't get Suter or can't swing a trade for Yandle or another name D that may be put on the market.
This is the only way I'd be good with getting Suter. Martin HAS to be on the way out the door. As this team stands right now with Martin ON THE TEAM, I'd prefer it if Shero doesn't go after him.

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06-25-2012, 10:00 AM
  #108
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Plan B HAS to be trading defense to land a winger for Sid. In fact, I would suspect that's plans B, C, D and E (at least).

Sullivan should be WELL down the list. Hell, Guillaume Latendresse should become available now on July 1. I would think he's higher on the list than Sullivan at this point.

Also, I would throw another name out there that we MAY dangle at this point (maybe as a throw-in for a scorer or something): Joe Vitale.

I know everybody is in love with our fourth-line center, but his role may be different now that we've gone from Staal to Sutter. We no longer have a crying need for a righty center. Also, with the lost offense from our 3C, maybe we could use someone with more upside than Vitale (he is what he is) as our fourth center. Just an idea.

In that same light, if we really want to give Robert Bortuzzo a shot, then maybe Deryk Engelland becomes expendable. This happens ONLY if A) we keep Orpik, B) we do land a top-pairing guy who plays a physical game, and C) we are able to land an enforcer on the fourth line (such as George Parros).

Just throwing some new thoughts out there.

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06-25-2012, 10:00 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Curious that Shero would preface with 'if he's back'. Did he really use those words?
Link for the audio: http://www.dve.com/player/?station=W...l&mid=22208316

10 minute interview, talks Staal trade, Sutter, talks about changes to the team and the reasons why, won't secure any players rights and hasn't even tried to do so, talks about the D (basically that those 3 mentioned in the tweet he's gotten inquiries on, they will be trying for spot) Morrow, talks up Martin ... and yes, that is a direct quote in the tweet. Worth a listen.

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Old
06-25-2012, 10:01 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
This is the only way I'd be good with getting Suter. Martin HAS to be on the way out the door. As this team stands right now with Martin ON THE TEAM, I'd prefer it if Shero doesn't go after him.
ya i agree, for Shero its smart to keep Martin til we see if we can get Suter, if we can't get Suter it's not the worst thing if Martin stays, we can still always trade him later, when there may be more demand for a top 4 dman.

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06-25-2012, 10:02 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I really hope Suter makes Shero's decision for him and signs elsewhere quickly. Why the hell do we keep drafting defenseman after defenseman? Give those kids a shot at playing on the cheap. We have next to nothing in terms of top-6 forward talent in the near future and down the road. Parise is by far the larger need than signing any defenseman to a $7M+ contract. We MIGHT take a step backwards next year on defense, but I'd argue that by the end of the season and into next season we'll be a MUCH stronger team if we sign Parise, and let one or more of our blue chip defensive prospects play consistent NHL minutes.

In the future we'd be loaded with talent on the front end, and we'd be loaded with talent on the back end that we are paying next to nothing for. This is opposed to being loaded with talent on the back end that you are paying some serious cash too, and thin on the front end without having any more money to spend.
While I agree with you here, the rumors of Suter and Parise wanting to play somewhere together cannot be ignored. If we want Parise badly, we may have to want both.

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06-25-2012, 10:02 AM
  #112
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Martin will probably be out the door if Suter signs.

Hopefully Martin fetches more than Michalek.

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06-25-2012, 10:04 AM
  #113
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I think Weber solves a lot of issues on the backend. Feared point shot and physical force in our zone. If Suter signs elsewhere, I could maybe see them interested in dealing Weber's rights (if he makes it apparent he doesn't want to stay) for an established top 4 D like Martin/Orpik, Despres and another piece.

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06-25-2012, 10:04 AM
  #114
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Doesn't anyone think Martin might play a big role in trying to land Parise?

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06-25-2012, 10:05 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Martin will probably be out the door if Suter signs.

Hopefully Martin fetches more than Michalek.
I would think so too, but Parise should be the #1 target, not Suter. Sign Parise first, then go after Suter. If Suter signs, then see what you can get for Martin.

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06-25-2012, 10:06 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Also, I would throw another name out there that we MAY dangle at this point (maybe as a throw-in for a scorer or something): Joe Vitale.
Congrats, you are the first poster to ever make my ignore list in ten years. I hope you slam both hands in a door to prevent this type of nonsense in the future.

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06-25-2012, 10:06 AM
  #117
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Doesn't anyone think Martin might play a big role in trying to land Parise?
do we know if he cooked him eggs in Jersey? That could be huge

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06-25-2012, 10:07 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by GoGuins8711 View Post
Doesn't anyone think Martin might play a big role in trying to land Parise?
Screw Paul Martin. We have cap space and Sidney Crosby as the allure. Martin is not long for this organization regardless of whether he's dealt this off-season or next.

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06-25-2012, 10:08 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
"Shero on young D pushing for a job after Michalek deal: 'The three main guys right now are Simon Despres, Brian Strait and Robert Bortuzzo.'"

I think the key word here is MAIN. Yes, those three are the main guys, because the latter two could be lost for nothing if they don't make it this time. But Dumoulin, Morrow, Harrington are REALLY close, too. IMO Dumoulin is going to make this team, somehow some way.

As for Despres rumors, I view it as "if David Poile wants to talk Shea Weber, Despres is available. Otherwise, he's untouchable."
Ummm none of those guys have played against men yet, and are at least 1-2 years away. They were saying Dumoulin is the closest behind Despres, so it wouldn't surprise me if he see's some games this year. But expect Morrow and Harrington to be in WBS for the next couple of years.

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06-25-2012, 10:08 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I think Weber solves a lot of issues on the backend. Feared point shot and physical force in our zone. If Suter signs elsewhere, I could maybe see them interested in dealing Weber's rights (if he makes it apparent he doesn't want to stay) for an established top 4 D like Martin/Orpik, Despres and another piece.
My last post of the morning but Shea Weber is the only D in the NHL I can think of, who we might trade a guy like Despres for, given how we're structuring the team, Shero's comments about him, Bortuzzo and Strait, and that he intends to give them a shot to play. It's amazing all the **** that gets stirred up when Rossi makes up parts of his story but Despres is the last guy you want to trade right now unless the return is absolute money / guaranteed 1st pairing stud.

If Nashville did that they would basically be deciding to rebuild their D and I think Orpik would have to be part of that for Nashville to even consider it. They would need a big, veteran guy who plays physical and one of our best prospects. I'd guess Harrington (still behind Despres, Dumoulin and probably Morrow in terms of getting a shot to make the team) or Maatta maybe. Maybe both. Weber is an animal / won't come cheap in a trade. Or maybe Orpik + Prospect + Nisky. If they'd take Martin that'd be fantastic but a little to HFB-easy to believe that.

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06-25-2012, 10:08 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Congrats, you are the first poster to ever make my ignore list in ten years. I hope you slam both hands in a door to prevent this type of nonsense in the future.
Hahahaha. I KNEW that would be the reaction.

But I stand by my statement. Vitale fit PERFECTLY because it was Crosby, Malkin and Staal ahead of him.

With Sutter, it's different.

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06-25-2012, 10:10 AM
  #122
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Ummm none of those guys have played against men yet, and are at least 1-2 years away. They were saying Dumoulin is the closest behind Despres, so it wouldn't surprise me if he see's some games this year. But expect Morrow and Harrington to be in WBS for the next couple of years.
Morrow does not need a couple of years in WBS

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06-25-2012, 10:10 AM
  #123
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Hahahaha. I KNEW that would be the reaction.

But I stand by my statement. Vitale fit PERFECTLY because it was Crosby, Malkin and Staal ahead of him.

With Sutter, it's different.
You are dead to me.

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06-25-2012, 10:11 AM
  #124
Hans Rutherford
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do we know if he cooked him eggs in Jersey? That could be huge
Haha. Come for Paul Martin's eggs. Stanley Cups are just a bonus.

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06-25-2012, 10:11 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
"Shero on young D pushing for a job after Michalek deal: 'The three main guys right now are Simon Despres, Brian Strait and Robert Bortuzzo.'"

I think the key word here is MAIN. Yes, those three are the main guys, because the latter two could be lost for nothing if they don't make it this time. But Dumoulin, Morrow, Harrington are REALLY close, too. IMO Dumoulin is going to make this team, somehow some way.

As for Despres rumors, I view it as "if David Poile wants to talk Shea Weber, Despres is available. Otherwise, he's untouchable."
Don't know if you caught Craig Button over the weekend, but he was talking about the Pens A prospects and basically said none of them, including Morrow, was close to ready. Then, after some cross chatter, he qualified by saying Dumoulin was close.

If Button thinks Morrow is nowhere near close but Dumoulin is, then I'm higher on Dumoulin's readiness than I already was.

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