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Offseason Discussion VII: Never Go Full-Rossi (Contract chart/FA list in Post #1)

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06-25-2012, 10:37 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Based on what we saw last year, and Morrow's continued development, seems like by next spring or fall we could easily have a situation where Despres is already in the lineup, Morrow could be in at any time, Dumoulin could be in at any time. I think both the latter guys will need a good six months in WBS to learn our system and play at the pro level, but it won't take them long to assimilate IMO. At least based on what I've read about Dumoulin (my only reference). Obviously I've seen some of Despres and Morrow.
The bolded part is the exact reason why I wouldn't want to sign Suter over Parise. That's 3 defenseman potentially on their ELC's who are considered to be blue chip prospects that could help us out a lot. None of them will be another Suter most likely, but all 3 have high ceilings.

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06-25-2012, 10:38 AM
  #152
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If we can't get rid of Martin's contract then I don't think we're going to get both. We should prioritise on getting Parise if that's the case if you ask me. Then Suter.

Doesn't Martin have a NMC clause?

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06-25-2012, 10:39 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
If we can't get rid of Martin's contract then I don't think we're going to get both. We should prioritise on getting Parise if that's the case if you ask me. Then Suter.

Doesn't Martin have a NMC clause?
ya he can list 8 team he wont go to

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06-25-2012, 10:41 AM
  #154
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A bit OT, but has anyone heard how Nashville's negotiations are going with RFA Shea Weber?

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06-25-2012, 10:41 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Well let's first get this out of the way...yes, we have defensive prospects. But let's be completely honest here, we will be over the ****ing moon if any of them turn out to be as good as Suter. Sure, they all can step in at some point within the next 1-3 years, but the odds of them being Ryan Suter...no one can say.

You can easily build around Suter and Letang, let the best 4 defensive prospects make the team, and use the rest as trade fodder. This team needs defense if it's going to be successful in the next 2 season. Suter helps that in spades, and not mentioning, finding defensemen like Ryan Suter is way harder to find than competent wingers to play with Sid and Geno. As I've said before, as much as I love Zach Parise, he is unnecessary on this team at his salary with who we have up front already.
While I'd call Suter the bigger need, I still think Shero goes for both and getting Parise first won't preclude him from going for Suter.

Two plans: A top defenseman (spend up to 7.5M) and a line for Sid (spend up to 8.5M combined for the two wingers). Suter and Parise are the respective plan A's, and getting one will not preclude going after the other.

I really do think what Shero did with all that chatter with the GM's is to set things up in case both plan A's happen (move Martin, maybe TK) and if they don't (trade market options).

BTW, if one of those kids really steps up in 1-2 years, it's going to mean we can let Orpik go and give him money to keep Letang. If 2-3 of those guys step up over the next 1-2 years, it will be interesting to see what happens with Letang.

Suter, you just sign and move Martin and TK to cover the cap hit. The only issue with signing him is what happens with Letang (depending upon how those prospects develop).

Parise gets a 7M ballpark offer, and that's got nothing to do with going after Suter.

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06-25-2012, 10:43 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
While I'd call Suter the bigger need, I still think Shero goes for both and getting Parise first won't preclude him from going for Suter.

Two plans: A top defenseman (spend up to 7.5M) and a line for Sid (spend up to 8.5M combined for the two wingers). Suter and Parise are the respective plan A's, and getting one will not preclude going after the other.

I really do think what Shero did with all that chatter with the GM's is to set things up in case both plan A's happen (move Martin, maybe TK) and if they don't (trade market options).

BTW, if one of those kids really steps up in 1-2 years, it's going to mean we can let Orpik go and give him money to keep Letang. If 2-3 of those guys step up over the next 1-2 years, it will be interesting to see what happens with Letang.

Suter, you just sign and move Martin and TK to cover the cap hit. The only issue with signing him is what happens with Letang (depending upon how those prospects develop).

Parise gets a 7M ballpark offer, and that's got nothing to do with going after Suter.
That's a good question too. Who would you rather have? Kris Letang, or Ryan Suter?

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06-25-2012, 10:44 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
If we can't get rid of Martin's contract then I don't think we're going to get both. We should prioritise on getting Parise if that's the case if you ask me. Then Suter.

Doesn't Martin have a NMC clause?
We can get rid of Martin's contract:

1. Look at the market. You've got Suter as the big prize. For teams that don't get the big prize, options are Carle or Yandle via trade. After that, Martin actually looks like the next best option.

2. Shero basically spent the weekend setting this up with other teams. I do think he's got David Poile in Nashville and maybe one or two other teams who will want to talk after the dust settles on the big names. Nashville, especially, would make sense given what their needs and budget would be if Suter walks.

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06-25-2012, 10:44 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by khaoskennedy View Post
ya he can list 8 team he wont go to
What teams do people reckon that'd be then?

I'd guess;

Philadelphia
New York Rangers
Anaheim
Carolina
Boston
Toronto
New York Islanders
Columbus

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06-25-2012, 10:45 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
The bolded part is the exact reason why I wouldn't want to sign Suter over Parise. That's 3 defenseman potentially on their ELC's who are considered to be blue chip prospects that could help us out a lot. None of them will be another Suter most likely, but all 3 have high ceilings.
Actually, that BOLDED part is why you sign Suter and, as these guys become ready, move Orpik and Nisky.

If the Pens don't sign Suter, then they're keeping Martin. I'd rather have Suter for the extra 2 million or so, because again that will have no bearing on whether or not the Pens sign Parise.

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06-25-2012, 10:46 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
The bolded part is the exact reason why I wouldn't want to sign Suter over Parise. That's 3 defenseman potentially on their ELC's who are considered to be blue chip prospects that could help us out a lot. None of them will be another Suter most likely, but all 3 have high ceilings.
I'd rather have Parise just to give Sid what he wants (and let's admit it, it's more exciting to watch), but what's the harm with Suter? So we have 3 guys on ELCs. I don't see how that matters. If anything it gives more reason to spend on a Dman.

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06-25-2012, 10:47 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
That's a good question too. Who would you rather have? Kris Letang, or Ryan Suter?
I love Tanger, but Suter.

Plus, perhaps losing Letang in 2 years because 2-3 of these young kids are perhaps ready in 1-2 years isn't a reason NOT to sign Ryan Suter.

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06-25-2012, 10:48 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I'd rather have Parise just to give Sid what he wants (and let's admit it, it's more exciting to watch), but what's the harm with Suter? So we have 3 guys on ELCs. I don't see how that matters. If anything it gives more reason to spend on a Dman.
As I keep saying, it's not one or the other if both players are willing to sign here:

Shero can budget 8.5M for Sid's wingers (like Geno's got for his current wingers). If it's Parise and Sully, then great. BUT, yeah, that's what trading Staal did for the Pens.

Shero can sign Suter and move Martin and TK to cover the cap hit.

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06-25-2012, 10:49 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Actually, that BOLDED part is why you sign Suter and, as these guys become ready, move Orpik and Nisky.

If the Pens don't sign Suter, then they're keeping Martin. I'd rather have Suter for the extra 2 million or so, because again that will have no bearing on whether or not the Pens sign Parise.
I'm not going to be mad if they sign Suter. I'm just going to be mad if it's at the expense of signing Parise. I think Parise is the bigger need than Suter, not that I think Suter is a bad player and I don't want him on this team.

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06-25-2012, 10:50 AM
  #164
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I really hope they give Tangradi a legitimate shot. I don’t know why he couldn’t play 50 or so games on a line with Malkin-Neal or if we got Parise, Parise-Crosby. It is not line if he is on one of those lines; we are going to miss the playoffs. Let him find his game with some great players. It would really pay off if we can turn him into a 20 goal scorer for a cheap salary. He will not get rubbed out in the playoffs like Sullivan will.

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06-25-2012, 10:51 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
As I keep saying, it's not one or the other if both players are willing to sign here:

Shero can budget 8.5M for Sid's wingers (like Geno's got for his current wingers). If it's Parise and Sully, then great. BUT, yeah, that's what trading Staal did for the Pens.

Shero can sign Suter and move Martin and TK to cover the cap hit.
It sounds nice in a vacuum but I don't even think it's worth talking about. With Lidstrom retiring, that money being free, and it being close to where he already plays, I think Holland is going to sell out to get Suter.

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06-25-2012, 10:52 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
What teams do people reckon that'd be then?

I'd guess;

Philadelphia
New York Rangers
Anaheim
Carolina
Boston
Toronto
New York Islanders
Columbus
Islanders, Jackets, Oilers are probably locks to be on his NTC. The rest is almost impossible to guess. He's American so I'd imagine there's probably a few other Canadian teams he doesn't want to play for and he was rumored to not want to play out west when the Kings were pursuing him in UFA. Might be a west coast team or two on the list.

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06-25-2012, 10:53 AM
  #167
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Anyone think we could've offer sheeted Cory Schneider instead of Vokoun? Wouldn't have cost anything in picks.

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06-25-2012, 10:53 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
From Mike Prisuta's Twitter @DVEMike


Quote:
Shero on Martin: "If he's back with the Pens next year he's gonna bounce back. I'm not calling teams on Paul Martin, they're calling me."


Interesting about Martin ... and wasn't there a rumor that Despres was available?

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain ...
Hmm, the defenseman with "negative value" is getting interest from other GM's. Go figure.

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06-25-2012, 10:53 AM
  #169
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Islanders, Jackets, Oilers are probably locks to be on his NTC. The rest is almost impossible to guess. He's American so I'd imagine there's probably a few other Canadian teams he doesn't want to player for and he was rumored to not want to play out west when the Kings were pursuing him in UFA. Might be a west coast team or two on the list.
Winnipeg, and New Jersey are also probably on the list.

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06-25-2012, 10:53 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Islanders, Jackets, Oilers are probably locks to be on his NTC. The rest is almost impossible to guess. He's American so I'd imagine there's probably a few other Canadian teams he doesn't want to player for and he was rumored to not want to play out west when the Kings were pursuing him in UFA. Might be a west coast team or two on the list.
If he really doesn't want traded, he should just pick the 8 teams that need him the most.

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06-25-2012, 10:54 AM
  #171
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If he really doesn't want traded, he should just pick the 8 teams that need him the most.
That would be a ****** move.

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06-25-2012, 10:54 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Anyone think we could've offer sheeted Cory Schneider instead of Vokoun? Wouldn't have cost anything in picks.
1st round picks...

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06-25-2012, 10:54 AM
  #173
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If teams are calling on Martin, weren't we told there was little to no interest in him by Rob Rossi? So, is that another phony?

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06-25-2012, 10:55 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Anyone think we could've offer sheeted Cory Schneider instead of Vokoun? Wouldn't have cost anything in picks.
In a word, no. Luongo is being dealt and Schneider is their starter as soon as that happens. Plus the usual banter about offer sheets and how they virtually never happen.

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06-25-2012, 10:55 AM
  #175
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Anyone think we could've offer sheeted Cory Schneider instead of Vokoun? Wouldn't have cost anything in picks.
We'd look like dicks and Vancouver would match anything we'd realistically could have offered.

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