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Offseason Discussion VII: Never Go Full-Rossi (Contract chart/FA list in Post #1)

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06-25-2012, 10:57 AM
  #176
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
If teams are calling on Martin, weren't we told there was little to no interest in him by Rob Rossi? So, is that another phony?
Rossi is terrible. Assume he makes up everything he says. He says enough that some of it ends up right, but he still probably made it up.

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06-25-2012, 10:58 AM
  #177
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I think we're all on the same page that signing Suter & Parise means trading away Martin and probably TK. But I think it would also spell the beginning of the end for Orpik.

We'd have Suter & Letang making big dollars and then Niskanen and then a few talented blueliners on ELCs.

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06-25-2012, 10:59 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Winnipeg, and New Jersey are also probably on the list.
Good point. He certainly wouldn't go to Winnipeg. I know he had a falling out with New Jersey over how they handled his injury or something. He did fit perfectly there though. Had the best years of his career for them. He may want to go back now that he's learned the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Much like Michalek.

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06-25-2012, 11:00 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Rossi is terrible. Assume he makes up everything he says. He says enough that some of it ends up right, but he still probably made it up.
You can only polish a turd so much, it's still a turd underneath.

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06-25-2012, 11:08 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by TravisUlrich View Post
I think we're all on the same page that signing Suter & Parise means trading away Martin and probably TK. But I think it would also spell the beginning of the end for Orpik.

We'd have Suter & Letang making big dollars and then Niskanen and then a few talented blueliners on ELCs.
No, signing Suter does NOT necessarily spell the beginning of the end for Orpik.

If one or two of the young defensemen step up in the next 1-2 years, then Orpik would be gone when his deal is done and the money is needed for Letang.

If three or four of the young defensemen step up in the next 1-2 years, then I think Letang would be gone and the possibility remains for Orpik to sign a 'finish your career here as a #4' discounted deal.

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06-25-2012, 11:08 AM
  #181
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Rossi is wrong too much of the time to value his opinion or sources on anything.

Canes were going to offer Faulk, Sutter, 8th, another piece and take Martin. Didn't happen.

He only knew we were talking to Phoenix because he saw Shero/Maloney talking with his own eyes at the draft. He then proceeded to make up a bunch of crap about us being close to getting Yandle and then it wasn't Yandle, it was Klesla and then it turned out to be a bunch of guys no one has ever heard of.

He saw Shero and Poile talking at the draft and proceeded to make up a bunch of crap about us trying to acquire Suter's rights. Poile later said no one was after Suter's rights.

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06-25-2012, 11:12 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I'm not going to be mad if they sign Suter. I'm just going to be mad if it's at the expense of signing Parise. I think Parise is the bigger need than Suter, not that I think Suter is a bad player and I don't want him on this team.
I understand. It won't be. If they sign Suter but not Parise (or visa versa), it won't be because they deemed one as more important than the other. IMO, they've got a budget for both. I suspect Suter is around 7.5M. As for Parise, I suspect they've budgeted about 8.5M for Sid's wingers, so if it's 7M for one and 1.5M for the other, then so be it.

If one wanted to know WHAT the outcome of trading Staal and dumping Michalek (and later Martin) could be, it was two lines with two good wingers (or one elite and one serviceable winger) centered by arguably the best player in hockey AND an elite top defensive pairing. That's what Shero is gunning for. Using Parise and Suter to do it is plan A, but there are other options. So, it's not like Sid plays with Sully and Dupuis again if the Pens can't sign Parise.

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06-25-2012, 11:16 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Rossi is wrong too much of the time to value his opinion or sources on anything.

Canes were going to offer Faulk, Sutter, 8th, another piece and take Martin. Didn't happen.

He only knew we were talking to Phoenix because he saw Shero/Maloney talking with his own eyes at the draft. He then proceeded to make up a bunch of crap about us being close to getting Yandle and then it wasn't Yandle, it was Klesla and then it turned out to be a bunch of guys no one has ever heard of.

He saw Shero and Poile talking at the draft and proceeded to make up a bunch of crap about us trying to acquire Suter's rights. Poile later said no one was after Suter's rights.
1. Poile and Shero were talking Martin. Any turd would know that. If Poile loses Suter, he can't get into a bidding war for Carle. So, unless he can trade for Yandle (which will cost him big), he can trade for Martin at minimal cost. That said, I'm sure they were talking about Suter in general (not his rights, just in general).

2. I still think that Faulk thing was someone speaking hypothetically over a week ago (before the contract rejection) and saying 'well, if they offered Sutter, Faulk, and the 8th overall and maybe took Paul Martin, then I think we'd move Staal'. Carolina NEVER offered that. At the same time, Carolina's offer didn't suck in the end, because on Friday Marek said the offer was Ruutu, Murphy, and the 8th overall.

EDIT: One big thing to remember, in all this talk, is that Shero has always been a huge champion of Suter. In his draft year, he was just about the leading voice pressing for Suter to be taken before Phaneuf. NOW, that may seem like a 'well, duh', thing, but five years ago it didn't look that way. That's how highly Shero thinks of Suter. Just keep it in mind, because I really do see Shero going for it with Suter (not to Parise's exclusion, of course).

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06-25-2012, 11:24 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
1. Poile and Shero were talking Martin. Any turd would know that. If Poile loses Suter, he can't get into a bidding war for Carle. So, unless he can trade for Yandle (which will cost him big), he can trade for Martin at minimal cost. That said, I'm sure they were talking about Suter in general (not his rights, just in general).

2. I still think that Faulk thing was someone speaking hypothetically over a week ago (before the contract rejection) and saying 'well, if they offered Sutter, Faulk, and the 8th overall and maybe took Paul Martin, then I think we'd move Staal'. Carolina NEVER offered that. At the same time, Carolina's offer didn't suck in the end, because on Friday Marek said the offer was Ruutu, Murphy, and the 8th overall.
He quoted one of his league sources saying that Carolina would make the Pens an offer that would be hard to refuse and then said he heard specifically that package. His sources suck if nothing else. Wouldn't surprise me if his source is freakin Eklund.

I agree Shero/Poile were talking about Martin. Shero was also talking to Maloney. People said at one point Shero huddled up with his staff and then they made a decision to trade Michalek. I think they weighed moving Martin and trying to dump Michalek later if they can acquire an upgrade like Suter vs. moving Michalek and trying to dump Martin later if they can get that upgrade. Just speculation though.

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06-25-2012, 11:28 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
He quoted one of his league sources saying that Carolina would make the Pens an offer that would be hard to refuse and then said he heard specifically that package. His sources suck if nothing else. Wouldn't surprise me if his source is freakin Eklund.

I agree Shero/Poile were talking about Martin. Shero was also talking to Maloney. People said at one point Shero huddled up with his staff and then they made a decision to trade Michalek. I think they weighed moving Martin and trying to dump Michalek later if they can acquire an upgrade like Suter vs. moving Michalek and trying to dump Martin later if they can get that upgrade. Just speculation though.
Pretty reasonable speculation. I also speculate that he's got 2-3 fall back deals for Martin depending upon how things play out on July 1.

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06-25-2012, 11:32 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by M0NTY26 View Post
If you think these guys wait until July 1st to start thinking about their future you're being naive.

These guys start weighing this options the day their season ends. They read the paper and they see the rumors of who's interested. ZP knows we are interested so he's already envisioning the different scenarios.
Knowing who's gonna be interested isn't enough. Zach knows nothing, doesn't know terms, money, structure of a deal, etc.

I doubt he knows right now where he signs. IMO, he's got two-three options and will decide based on the offer and fit.

Brad Richards signed next day. Kovalchuk two weeks after.

He's gonna sign lifetime contract. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he waits, at least, one day. Maybe he will sign at 2pm on July 1, who knows. I am just looking on this as a little risk, if Zach wants to wait for a day or two.

That doesn't mean I would not want to have Zach in here. I'm just saying my opinion and a possibility of this scenario. Definitely can happen, IMHO.

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06-25-2012, 11:32 AM
  #187
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Makes me laugh how people are saying we shouldn't sign Ryan Suter and Zach Parise on the trade board as we would be in cap bother. Thing is, we won't be. Just jealousy really.

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06-25-2012, 11:34 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Makes me laugh how people are saying we shouldn't sign Ryan Suter and Zach Parise on the trade board as we would be in cap bother. Thing is, we won't be. Just jealousy really.
Yeah, I saw what you wrote. After next year, maybe we have to move Orpik depending upon what happens with the cap. Year after, we might have to let Kunitz walk and maybe even deal Letang, depending upon the state of our A level defensive prospects then.

BUT, **** it! I'm not going to not sign Suter and Parise because MAYBE we can't keep Letang in two years (the maybe depending upon more of our A level defensive prospects being ready more quickly than anticipated).

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06-25-2012, 11:35 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Makes me laugh how people are saying we shouldn't sign Ryan Suter and Zach Parise on the trade board as we would be in cap bother. Thing is, we won't be. Just jealousy really.
That is the root of all Pens hate on the main boards.

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06-25-2012, 11:36 AM
  #190
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I know I'm about to get reamed, but what the hell .... with this space, we should look at Suter and ... Semin.

Suter is self-explanatory. Good, all-around defender with a nice shot who actually uses it. PP and PK ability.

We have no one like Semin in our organization. Talented grinders (Neal, Kunitz, Kennedy, etc), Center ice power (Malkin, Crosby, etc.), Bottom six (too many to name)

We don't have one sniper who can end a game with his shot. Especially RIGHT handed.

I know he can be a _______, but he improved dramatically defensively last year under Hunter and wouldn't cost as much as Parise. And he's another "bigger" guy to improve our size and while he was critical of Crosby, he said nothing of Malkin.

Parise is a continuation of what we have for 7M+ and will be sought after my so many. Semin is something we none of and could be looked at as a Parise runner up prize.

.... Preparing for the flame.

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06-25-2012, 11:37 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by PenguinTommy View Post
Knowing who's gonna be interested isn't enough. Zach knows nothing, doesn't know terms, money, structure of a deal, etc.

I doubt he knows right now where he signs. IMO, he's got two-three options and will decide based on the offer and fit.

Brad Richards signed next day. Kovalchuk two weeks after.

He's gonna sign lifetime contract. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he waits, at least, one day. Maybe he will sign at 2pm on July 1, who knows. I am just looking on this as a little risk, if Zach wants to wait for a day or two.

That doesn't mean I would not want to have Zach in here. I'm just saying my opinion and a possibility of this scenario. Definitely can happen, IMHO.
I think Parise have 3-4 teams in mind that he wants to go.

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06-25-2012, 11:39 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Pelican Peach Pen View Post
I know I'm about to get reamed, but what the hell .... with this space, we should look at Suter and ... Semin.

Suter is self-explanatory. Good, all-around defender with a nice shot who actually uses it. PP and PK ability.

We have no one like Semin in our organization. Talented grinders (Neal, Kunitz, Kennedy, etc), Center ice power (Malkin, Crosby, etc.), Bottom six (too many to name)

We don't have one sniper who can end a game with his shot. Especially RIGHT handed.

I know he can be a _______, but he improved dramatically defensively last year under Hunter and wouldn't cost as much as Parise. And he's another "bigger" guy to improve our size and while he was critical of Crosby, he said nothing of Malkin.

Parise is a continuation of what we have for 7M+ and will be sought after my so many. Semin is something we none of and could be looked at as a Parise runner up prize.

.... Preparing for the flame.

I don't think anyone would be against signing him. Just not for his current cap.

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06-25-2012, 11:39 AM
  #193
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...or Parise and Semin.

D :

Orpek - Letang

Despres - Risky Nisky

Engelland - Bortuzzo / Strait

LET THE MADNESS ENSUE

(No i'm not really serious, i'd love Semins skill set, don't want the personality that comes with it)

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06-25-2012, 11:40 AM
  #194
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Craig Custance ‏@CraigCustance
Lots of interest in Paul Martin but not sure the Penguins move him unless they think they can get Ryan Suter.

He said LOTS OF INTEREST..

Yeah, definitely, nobody would trade for Martin, only a stupid GM would do it !

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06-25-2012, 11:40 AM
  #195
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I wouldn't be against having some of our prospects play if it meant we could get Parise and Suter.

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06-25-2012, 11:41 AM
  #196
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Well Shero just said on DVE that he thought Morrow wasn't that far away... So I'm listening to him and not Button.

Don't forget to not take things too literal guys. It's in the teams' best interest to always pimp & hype their players. Especially players that could be involved in a trade, whether it's Martin ("he'll bounce back and have a big year") or Despres, Strait & Bortuzzo ("they're NHL ready now", "we've received calls from other teams on them", etc).


You don't trash guys that you may want to trade cause it hurts their value, and you don't trash guys who are in your system because you want their confidence to be high. Button is a pretty smart guy, especially when it comes to prospects & amateur scouting. He may not know all of the Pens' guys quite as well as they do, but he's also a lot more objective...at least in terms of how he speaks of them in the media.

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06-25-2012, 11:50 AM
  #197
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I dont think it would be wrong to consider Semin. BUT:

- NEVER instead of Parise. Semin is 1/3 the all around hockey player Parise is. Parise is more productive to boot.

- not for his size. Big frame but he doesn't use it or really play in the dirty areas. We need painful size. Battering ram size.

Also, Neal is a sniper. Pretty much a pure sniper. Not of the Kunitz mold.

Having said all this, I think you just prefer Euro/Non North American players....

I still want the 4th line addressed. It seems trivial. But we have top end talent, and will score goals. But with Staal gone we need a 3rd and especially 4th line which has alot more purpose. That is where i want size, grit, and some youth.

But. I guess we are looking at Cooke Kennedy Adams Vitale all coming back. And while i like each guy in his own right, we need some stature there.

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06-25-2012, 11:51 AM
  #198
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Did we decide that we didn't want PA Parenteau? Right-handed shot and NYI isn't resigning him ...

Maybe something like this? (And yes, I know, no Craig MF'n Adams)

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / P.A. Parenteau ($1.750m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
Eric Tangradi ($0.800m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Arron Asham ($0.775m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Matt Niskanen ($2.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) /

GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,448,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,851,667

***EDIT: If the cap does drop, then we could shop Orpik and let another rookie have a shot

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06-25-2012, 11:53 AM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I wouldn't be against having some of our prospects play if it meant we could get Parise and Suter.
It's really not that bad...

Suter
Letang
Orpik
Nisky
Engo
Despres/Strait/Bortuzzo

I'd do that in a heartbeat if that meant adding Parise as well.

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06-25-2012, 11:56 AM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
Did we decide that we didn't want PA Parenteau? Right-handed shot and NYI isn't resigning him ...

Maybe something like this? (And yes, I know, no Craig MF'n Adams)

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / P.A. Parenteau ($1.750m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
Eric Tangradi ($0.800m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Arron Asham ($0.775m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Matt Niskanen ($2.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) /

GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,448,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,851,667
rumor is PAP wants big money

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