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Justin Schultz to Vancouver? UPD: MG, AV and Gilman in TOR to meet Schultz's camp

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06-25-2012, 10:56 AM
  #76
Canucker
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Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
I am confused at these sort of statements ... exactly what has he done ... other than not sign with Ana ... to suggest that there are any "character" issues to deal with.
When you look out for your own interests you automatically have "character issues".

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06-25-2012, 10:57 AM
  #77
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He can definitely help the team. Not sure I want a character like this on the Canucks though. A big part of why the Canucks have been able to be so competitive the last few seasons is our players' loyalty to the organization that treated them well. This kid doesn't seem to even know the meaning of the word.
Why does he need to have loyalty to an organization that drafted him yet spent no money on him (because they couldn't)?

If Sweatt makes the team are you going to boo him off the ice? Would you not take Blake Wheeler on the canucks?

It's an option available to him under the CBA just as an offer sheet to a RFA is an option. If the Blues didn't match the Backes offer sheet would you not cheer for him as a canuck? What about Kesler? Do you not cheer for him?

he's a talented player exercising his rights. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

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06-25-2012, 10:57 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
I am confused at these sort of statements ... exactly what has he done ... other than not sign with Ana ... to suggest that there are any "character" issues to deal with.
Nothing wrong at all, that was a very ignorant post. No one outside of Anaheim and the Schultz camp knows what's gone on there.

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06-25-2012, 11:10 AM
  #79
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Why wouldn't he take the Oilers or the Leafs over us?

Sure, you're not in Cup contention right away, but you get more minutes, more roles and you're playing with more players from your neck of the woods. I'd give Toronto the benefit of the doubt after unloading Schenn, but Edmonton isn't far behind. And we're the longshot, which doesn't bother me too much because we have other options in Garrison, who I really think we should be focusing on more.
Agreed. I'd love Suter, I don't see that as a realistic acquisition though. Our #1 priority should be getting Garrison under contract.

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06-25-2012, 11:23 AM
  #80
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Agreed. I'd love Suter, I don't see that as a realistic acquisition though. Our #1 priority should be getting Garrison under contract.
I'm not sure. If his asking price is 5+ I'd rather hold out.

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06-25-2012, 11:26 AM
  #81
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lol two week avatar bet? Why don't you just bet air. 1 year term.


Depends on the air though.

Some of that crap that blows over from the Lower Mainland to the Valley can be quite toxic.

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06-25-2012, 01:00 PM
  #82
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As far as 'character' issues go I'm not sure about Schultz but I think I would draw the line some where around Blake Wheeler. It's one thing to do this when you're a 2nd round pick, but when a team takes a huge reach on draft days to selects you 4th overall, and then you turn around and screw them on some CBA loophole, fans and team management have a right to be pissed.

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06-25-2012, 01:03 PM
  #83
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I just think Schultz's camp could have handled the situation in such a way that would allow Ducks - the org that drafted him - get a token return for him.

That's my opinion. Jeez, as soon as the word character gets used the riot police squad comes out armed to the teeth. Do you guys disagree that organizational loyalty was an important part of our team's competitiveness?

I do agree that his circumstances, being a college prospect, is a bit different since the org didn't have a lot of room to invest in his development, but they still drafted him and put faith in his potential a few years ago when they decided to use a second round pick (which is apparently worth Visnovski to Bob Murray) to select him from thousands of eligible players.

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06-25-2012, 01:07 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by trytobe View Post
I just think Schultz's camp could have handled the situation in such a way that would allow Ducks - the org that drafted him - get a token return for him.

That's my opinion. Jeez, as soon as the word character gets used the riot police squad comes out armed to the teeth. Do you guys disagree that organizational loyalty was an important part of our team's competitiveness?

I do agree that his circumstances, being a college prospect, is a bit different since the org didn't have a lot of room to invest in his development, but they still drafted him and put faith in his potential a few years ago when they decided to use a second round pick (which is apparently worth Visnovski to Bob Murray) to select him from thousands of eligible players.
There was nothing stopping them from trading his rights.

(was there?)

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06-25-2012, 01:12 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
There was nothing stopping them from trading his rights.

(was there?)
Probably the same thing stopping teams from trading various pending UFA rights - not much of a market for it. Teams want to wait until he hits the market and try to get him for free.

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06-25-2012, 01:14 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by trytobe View Post
I just think Schultz's camp could have handled the situation in such a way that would allow Ducks - the org that drafted him - get a token return for him.

That's my opinion. Jeez, as soon as the word character gets used the riot police squad comes out armed to the teeth. Do you guys disagree that organizational loyalty was an important part of our team's competitiveness?

I do agree that his circumstances, being a college prospect, is a bit different since the org didn't have a lot of room to invest in his development, but they still drafted him and put faith in his potential a few years ago when they decided to use a second round pick (which is apparently worth Visnovski to Bob Murray) to select him from thousands of eligible players.
This is a business, and while loyalty has an important place, you still look out for your own best interests because team's don't always do what is in the best interest of the player. The rule sucks, but thats not the player's problem, if he's entitled to something due to some flaw in the system then he's entitled to use it. I'm sure Mason Raymond isn't happy about the cut-down salary arbitration clause that the Canucks are using on him, but its a tool that the team decided was in its best interest to use.

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06-25-2012, 01:16 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
There was nothing stopping them from trading his rights.

(was there?)
He makes more money if he waits until he hits UFA so it's kind of pointless really.

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06-25-2012, 01:22 PM
  #88
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I wonder if having Carlyle as the head coach could be seen by Schultz as a negative? Perhaps not being given more playing time by Carlyle in Ana was a reason he decided to hold out?

Also, Edm not having a coach may not be a bad thing either. Perhaps it would allow a player like Schultz and the other young players to have a say in the type of coach/system put in place?

Either way, the Canucks have the most stable situation of the three teams.

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06-25-2012, 01:23 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
He makes more money if he waits until he hits UFA so it's kind of pointless really.
Yeah I'm just responding to the poster who said: "Schultz's camp could have handled the situation in such a way that would allow Ducks - the org that drafted him - get a token return for him." A token return would have been trading his rights for a midrounder, there was nothing stopping them from doing that. I didn't hear anything about his rights being shopped around, I was kind of surprised.

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06-25-2012, 01:25 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
There was nothing stopping them from trading his rights.

(was there?)
Anaheim has said they will file tampering charges against whichever team he signs with. If Schultz approached ANA management requesting his rights get sent to a team then they have the culprit. If the other organization approaches ANA about acquiring his rights they have strong reason to believe they tampered with Schultz.

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06-25-2012, 01:26 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by FiveAndGame View Post
Also, Edm not having a coach may not be a bad thing either. Perhaps it would allow a player like Schultz and the other young players to have a say in the type of coach/system put in place?
Sorry but I laughed at this one. Even the Oilers, who pander pretty heavily to their prized draft picks, could not be this crazy.

"Come to Edmonton, and help pick the head coach!"

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06-25-2012, 01:28 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Sorry but I laughed at this one. Even the Oilers, who pander pretty heavily to their prized draft picks, could not be this crazy.

"Come to Edmonton, and help pick the head coach!"
With the combo of Lowe/Tambo....anything is possible.

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06-25-2012, 01:29 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
With the combo of Lowe/Tambo....anything is possible.
Exactly! lol

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06-25-2012, 01:47 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
Yeah I'm just responding to the poster who said: "Schultz's camp could have handled the situation in such a way that would allow Ducks - the org that drafted him - get a token return for him." A token return would have been trading his rights for a midrounder, there was nothing stopping them from doing that. I didn't hear anything about his rights being shopped around, I was kind of surprised.
And here is where my understanding of the situation gets a bit hazy. I was under the impression that Schultz's camp made it clear that he's going to test free agency and that he didn't really have a destination in mind - that makes his rights pretty much worthless I would think.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's where my bad impression of him comes from

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06-25-2012, 01:50 PM
  #95
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After all of the ridiculous and over the top hype surrounding Justin Schulz, I am going to laugh my ass off if he is a huge bust.

People seem to forget he's a prospect and has proven nothing at the NHL level, the way some of you talk about him is like he's a top 2 defenseman on this team if he signs.

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06-25-2012, 01:52 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by FiveAndGame View Post
Anaheim has said they will file tampering charges against whichever team he signs with. If Schultz approached ANA management requesting his rights get sent to a team then they have the culprit. If the other organization approaches ANA about acquiring his rights they have strong reason to believe they tampered with Schultz.
Saying they tampered and proving they tampered are two different things...it's going to be pretty hard to prove unless there is a paper/e-mail trail which is highly unlikely.

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06-25-2012, 01:53 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
This is a business, and while loyalty has an important place, you still look out for your own best interests because team's don't always do what is in the best interest of the player. The rule sucks, but thats not the player's problem, if he's entitled to something due to some flaw in the system then he's entitled to use it. I'm sure Mason Raymond isn't happy about the cut-down salary arbitration clause that the Canucks are using on him, but its a tool that the team decided was in its best interest to use.
Of course. Let me be clear - I am not in any way, shape, or form trying to imply that Justin Schultz didn't have the right to do what he did. That doesn't mean I have to like the guy for it.

Since you brought up Raymond as an example, I just want to make a quick comment that I really think he's had nothing but opportunities with this organization. Coaches and Management has continued to put their faith in him and give him opportunities to rebound. Of course he's not happy about the Canucks applying for a cut-down arbitration, but at least there's an arbitration process in place to ensure that he's not getting bent over with no recourse. And really, a reduced caphit is only going to help him get more icetime and more opportunities in the coming season.

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06-25-2012, 01:57 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by trytobe View Post
Of course. Let me be clear - I am not in any way, shape, or form trying to imply that Justin Schultz didn't have the right to do what he did. That doesn't mean I have to like the guy for it.

Since you brought up Raymond as an example, I just want to make a quick comment that I really think he's had nothing but opportunities with this organization. Coaches and Management has continued to put their faith in him and give him opportunities to rebound. Of course he's not happy about the Canucks applying for a cut-down arbitration, but at least there's an arbitration process in place to ensure that he's not getting bent over with no recourse. And really, a reduced caphit is only going to help him get more icetime and more opportunities in the coming season.
I agree, I'm happy the cut-down arbitration exists too...its a useful tool to help teams. I don't like the fact Schultz can get to UFA status in this way, but it's not Schultz's fault the rules work that way and he shouldn't be looked down on for using it to his benefit. I know if I had the same opportunity I'd use it too...It puts him in an infinitely better position for his future.

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06-25-2012, 02:17 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
I agree, I'm happy the cut-down arbitration exists too...its a useful tool to help teams. I don't like the fact Schultz can get to UFA status in this way, but it's not Schultz's fault the rules work that way and he shouldn't be looked down on for using it to his benefit. I know if I had the same opportunity I'd use it too...It puts him in an infinitely better position for his future.
Is it true that we can't walk away from cut-down arbitration? In other words were stuck with Raymond unless we trade him but can't walk away from arbitraters decision? I really don't want him on this team at all. Hell trade him to Montreal for Moens rights even.

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06-25-2012, 02:38 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by FiveAndGame View Post
Anaheim has said they will file tampering charges against whichever team he signs with. If Schultz approached ANA management requesting his rights get sent to a team then they have the culprit. If the other organization approaches ANA about acquiring his rights they have strong reason to believe they tampered with Schultz.
The tampering issue may have merit but most of what's being repeated as fact is pure speculation.

Anaheim never said anything publicly about filing tampering charges. They definitely did not say charges would be filed against any team that he signs with. The idea that any team inquiring about his rights is symptomatic of tampering is pretty ridiculous.

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