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Summer Moves IV: Roy "4" Hanzal <3

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Old
06-16-2012, 12:14 PM
  #1
dkollidas
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Summer Moves IV: Roy "4" Hanzal <3

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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Drafting Murray over galchenyuk would a colossal mistake
Maybe, but I have my doubts that with Hodgson/Ennis they move up to get Galchenyuk. I really like him as well, but it doesn't seem like Darcy's style to trade a young guy he acquired only a few months ago in order to move up and select a guy who missed the entire year with injury and should (at least IMO, play another year of junior before making the jump).

Whereas Murray is a good 2-way defenseman, ready to make the jump up, and could pair with Myers to give us a true top-pairing for the next 10-15 years potentially.

Especially if they did acquire Staal, I just don't see them moving up to get Galchenyuk as well. Just seems redundant. It'd be great center depth (Staal, Ennis, Galchenyuk) but I think if you have Staal, Ennis, Hodgson, with Murray and Myers being a top pair down the road pure better off.

But that's just my personal opinion. But I totally can understand liking Galchenyuk that much.

And then won't Staal be in the same predicament in a couple years... Ennis and Galchenyuk getting the cavorts linemates/PP time/scoring role on the team that seems to be a key reason he might potentially want out of Pittsburgh in the first place?

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06-16-2012, 12:28 PM
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Kane hasn't come out and said anything. Last I checked this was all a rumor started by Lavoie of RDS. It could have legs, but as of now, Kane has said nothing.

Regardless, if you think Brennan/Pysyk and two draft picks is enough to get you Evander Kane, you're out of your mind.

He's a 21-year-old 30-goal-scoring power forward with a great deal of potential. His RFA status means nothing in terms of league-wide value. It's not like he's unrestricted and you're trading for those rights.

Every team in the league will be lining up for his services if he is in fact on the block, and there are a ton of people that will pay a lot more than the package you offered up to get him.

Assuming that the reports are true, this is where I was coming from. Winnipeg is getting a 50 point, 20-30 goal winger under a reasonably cheap contract for the next few years, a first round Dman who's NHL ready or close to it (and under control for five years or so), and two good picks. I don't think WPG does better than that if GM's think the noise is true.

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06-16-2012, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
Maybe, but I have my doubts that with Hodgson/Ennis they move up to get Galchenyuk. I really like him as well, but it doesn't seem like Darcy's style to trade a young guy he acquired only a few months ago in order to move up and select a guy who missed the entire year with injury and should (at least IMO, play another year of junior before making the jump).

Whereas Murray is a good 2-way defenseman, ready to make the jump up, and could pair with Myers to give us a true top-pairing for the next 10-15 years potentially.

Especially if they did acquire Staal, I just don't see them moving up to get Galchenyuk as well. Just seems redundant. It'd be great center depth (Staal, Ennis, Galchenyuk) but I think if you have Staal, Ennis, Hodgson, with Murray and Myers being a top pair down the road pure better off.

But that's just my personal opinion. But I totally can understand liking Galchenyuk that much.

And then won't Staal be in the same predicament in a couple years... Ennis and Galchenyuk getting the cavorts linemates/PP time/scoring role on the team that seems to be a key reason he might potentially want out of Pittsburgh in the first place?
fair enough...

Who would you rather have, Pavel Datsyuk or Duncan Keith?

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06-16-2012, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
fair enough...

Who would you rather have, Pavel Datsyuk or Duncan Keith?
My opinion is with the current makeup of the Sabres you must in this draft pursue elite (or as elite as you can get) offensive talent over defensive talent. The pipeline has several d-men, including a couple potential blue-chippers.

On offense, all there is, is Armia and maybe Cattenacci (sp).

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06-16-2012, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
Maybe, but I have my doubts that with Hodgson/Ennis they move up to get Galchenyuk. I really like him as well, but it doesn't seem like Darcy's style to trade a young guy he acquired only a few months ago in order to move up and select a guy who missed the entire year with injury and should (at least IMO, play another year of junior before making the jump).

Whereas Murray is a good 2-way defenseman, ready to make the jump up, and could pair with Myers to give us a true top-pairing for the next 10-15 years potentially.

Especially if they did acquire Staal, I just don't see them moving up to get Galchenyuk as well. Just seems redundant. It'd be great center depth (Staal, Ennis, Galchenyuk) but I think if you have Staal, Ennis, Hodgson, with Murray and Myers being a top pair down the road pure better off.

But that's just my personal opinion. But I totally can understand liking Galchenyuk that much.

And then won't Staal be in the same predicament in a couple years... Ennis and Galchenyuk getting the cavorts linemates/PP time/scoring role on the team that seems to be a key reason he might potentially want out of Pittsburgh in the first place?
Totally agree. I would not move Ennis or Coho for Galchenyuk. He is coming off a season ending injury on his ACL in addition to the fact of him only measuring in at 6' an inch taller then Coho. We want to get bigger down the middle I am looking for 6'2'' or 6'3'' type players. Also he would be a prospect that we have NO clue would turn out to be half as successful as Ennis or Coho. Ennis has all the tools minus size to be a superstar, Coho is developing into a play-making center that we all need. If he builds up his speed a tad over this summer training with Roberts we will see a increase in production from both players IMO.

Also, if we are in Pegulas "3 year plan" trading one of Ennis or Coho would set us back quite a bit as Galchenyuk would need at least another year of development and training to recover from his injury.

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06-16-2012, 01:25 PM
  #6
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Totally agree. I would not move Ennis or Coho for Galchenyuk. He is coming off a season ending injury on his ACL in addition to the fact of him only measuring in at 6' an inch taller then Coho. We want to get bigger down the middle I am looking for 6'2'' or 6'3'' type players. Also he would be a prospect that we have NO clue would turn out to be half as successful as Ennis or Coho. Ennis has all the tools minus size to be a superstar, Coho is developing into a play-making center that we all need. If he builds up his speed a tad over this summer training with Roberts we will see a increase in production from both players IMO.

Also, if we are in Pegulas "3 year plan" trading one of Ennis or Coho would set us back quite a bit as Galchenyuk would need at least another year of development and training to recover from his injury.
Once again, the final 6 weeks of a failed season, leaves the fan base over believing in the current roster

I love Ennis in the 2006 Derek Roy role (3rd line, easy minutes,etc) which is the role he was wildly successful in down the stretch this season. But that success has too many believing he is on a path to stardom as a top line center... he's not.

Ennis does NOT have all the tools. He's lacking tools in every area of the game.

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06-16-2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Once again, the final 6 weeks of a failed season, leaves the fan base over believing in the current roster

I love Ennis in the 2006 Derek Roy role (3rd line, easy minutes,etc) which is the role he was wildly successful in down the stretch this season. But that success has too many believing he is on a path to stardom as a top line center... he's not.

Ennis does NOT have all the tools. He's lacking tools in every area of the game.
Including stick handling, speed and shooting....Jame is right he is slow, has a bad shot and cant deke the better defencemen. He will definitely bust.

How do I add a sarcism meter?

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06-16-2012, 01:33 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Once again, the final 6 weeks of a failed season, leaves the fan base over believing in the current roster

I love Ennis in the 2006 Derek Roy role (3rd line, easy minutes,etc) which is the role he was wildly successful in down the stretch this season. But that success has too many believing he is on a path to stardom as a top line center... he's not.

Ennis does NOT have all the tools. He's lacking tools in every area of the game.
Very well put. I love that Ennis had such success after he was moved to center, but people are getting a little carried away with their projections of what they think he should be at least in the short-term. Relying strictly on Ennis and Hodgson as our two top line centers is setting us up for failure. These guys are still very young and are going to need time to grow into playing big time minutes. The sabres biggest need is still an all situations top line center.

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06-16-2012, 01:43 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Including stick handling, speed and shooting....Jame is right he is slow, has a bad shot and cant deke the better defencemen. He will definitely bust.

How do I add a sarcism meter?
I don't think Jame said he would bust at all. He just said he has a lot of things he needs to work on to refine his game and I agree. He's still below average on faceoffs, defensive awareness, strength on the puck, and along the boards and quite frankly I think he could work on his shot as well, he doesn't have that deadly wrist shot like an Alexei Kovalev, nor does he have much of a slapshot.

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06-16-2012, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
Very well put. I love that Ennis had such success after he was moved to center, but people are getting a little carried away with their projections of what they think he should be at least in the short-term. Relying strictly on Ennis and Hodgson as our two top line centers is setting us up for failure. These guys are still very young and are going to need time to grow into playing big time minutes. The sabres biggest need is still an all situations top line center.
When evaluating Ennis, Hodgson has nothing to do with it. Ennis is either a top 6 or he isnīt. Tough to imagine a guy who gets 19 goals in his rookie season and on pace for 25 this year with 92 points in 140 games is a third line player.

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06-16-2012, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
I don't think Jame said he would bust at all. He just said he has a lot of things he needs to work on to refine his game and I agree. He's still below average on faceoffs, defensive awareness, strength on the puck, and along the boards and quite frankly I think he could work on his shot as well, he doesn't have that deadly wrist shot like an Alexei Kovalev, nor does he have much of a slapshot.
Great players are always working on there game, to say Jagr was a defensive liability because he would circle at center when the opposition has the puck makes no difference to what line he plays on(meaning defensively a lot of players need work) to me that is a fans opinion on how you feel so be it. If Ruff has Ennis getting third line minutes I will eat my hat.

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06-16-2012, 01:50 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Including stick handling, speed and shooting....Jame is right he is slow, has a bad shot and cant deke the better defencemen. He will definitely bust.

How do I add a sarcism meter?
oh look, a whole bunch of **** i didn't say... what a surprise


Last edited by Chainshot: 06-16-2012 at 08:44 PM. Reason: copy
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06-16-2012, 01:59 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
When evaluating Ennis, Hodgson has nothing to do with it. Ennis is either a top 6 or he isnīt. Tough to imagine a guy who gets 19 goals in his rookie season and on pace for 25 this year with 92 points in 140 games is a third line player.
why is it hard to imagine?

Question, what "Line" was Derek Roy centering in 2006-2007?

I see things in a very simple way:
1. Briere centered a top line. This line saw the opponents top D
2. Drury centered a shutdown line. This line saw the opponents top Forwards/lines
3. Roy centered a "3rd" line. This line saw easy minutes as they weren't faced with either of the difficult mathcups offensively or defensively.

Ennis, was in THAT Roy role during his 6 week outburst. Not sure why it's hard to imagine him being the "3rd" line guy, when that is EXACTLY what he was while he was having his success.

You could call it a 2nd line if you want... but in today's NHL, it's really the "3rd" line. Guess what line Briere was dominating the playoffs on for Philly over the last few years... yup, the "3rd" line.

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06-16-2012, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
why is it hard to imagine?

Question, what "Line" was Derek Roy centering in 2006-2007?

I see things in a very simple way:
1. Briere centered a top line. This line saw the opponents top D
2. Drury centered a shutdown line. This line saw the opponents top Forwards/lines
3. Roy centered a "3rd" line. This line saw easy minutes as they weren't faced with either of the difficult mathcups offensively or defensively.

Ennis, was in THAT Roy role during his 6 week outburst. Not sure why it's hard to imagine him being the "3rd" line guy, when that is EXACTLY what he was while he was having his success.

You could call it a 2nd line if you want... but in today's NHL, it's really the "3rd" line. Guess what line Briere was dominating the playoffs on for Philly over the last few years... yup, the "3rd" line.
what does Drury and Briere have to do with it? Are they on the team now? or the equivalent on the team now? That was last year and talking about Drury and Briere is just sad since that scenario is not the same situation as it is now. Like I said, if Ennis does not get top 6 minutes I will eat my hat. When the season starts we can revisit this and see what role he is playing cause if top center is added then Ennis and Hodgson will be our 1 and 2 center. You are jumping the gun a bit Jame.

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06-16-2012, 02:10 PM
  #15
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fair enough...

Who would you rather have, Pavel Datsyuk or Duncan Keith?
Good point. As far as value, I'd probably want Galchenyuk, but I personally would want him to stay in junior for a year, and I think Regier and Ruff would do the same, especially with his injury last season.
I would love the idea of getting Staal and Galchenyuk, I just don't think that's where they're going. I think they (Regier/Ruff) feel Hodgson/Ennis are going to be their 1-2 punch, and get a guy who can play a shutdown role.

Galchenyuk would be able to do that his first couple years with us I think, but I think we'd need a real shutdown guy somewhere. And we need help on the wing looking down the road if we moved Pominville, or Vanek, or Stafford as part of a deal for Staal.

I really would like Galchenyuk, but I guess we'll just have to wait a few days to see what happens. Either way, if they get one of Fosberg, Galchenyuk, or even Murray, I'd be very happy. Especially if they moved some cap space in order to try and make some FA moves, as long as it isn't Parenteau to a 6-year, $30M deal or something ridiculous like that.

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06-16-2012, 02:21 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
what does Drury and Briere have to do with it? Are they on the team now? or the equivalent on the team now? That was last year and talking about Drury and Briere is just sad since that scenario is not the same situation as it is now. Like I said, if Ennis does not get top 6 minutes I will eat my hat.
It's called a comparison.


anyways....
Top 6 minutes among forwards in Total Ice Time?
or
Top 6 minutes among forwards in Even Strength Ice Time?

Regardless... you and i don't define "lines" the same way. I think you are right, Ennis will get "top 6 minutes" among forwards. But his "Role" will be as the "3rd" line, where he will NOT see the top defenders (focused on the 1st line), nor will he see the top offensive line (focused on by a shutdown line).

Anybody not in 1 of those TWO situations... is getting the easy minutes. Ennis will get the easy minutes... and he should DOMINATE those minutes like he did during the end of the season

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06-16-2012, 02:24 PM
  #17
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When the season starts we can revisit this and see what role he is playing cause if top center is added then Ennis and Hodgson will be our 1 and 2 center. You are jumping the gun a bit Jame.
when the season starts... if no changes are made... Ennis will still be #3... IMO.

Leino-Roy-Poms
Vanek-Hodgson-Tropp
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford

again, by my definition of #3... meaning he will get the easiest minutes


oh yea... im jumping the gun... lol. im not the one projecting a top 6 center based off of 6 weeks of playing sheltered minutes

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06-16-2012, 02:28 PM
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it's always the same thing around here. If you don't give some arbitrary praise and title, and instead do actual analsyis, then you must be a hater

Ennis was AWESOME in the last 6 weeks. The Sabres learned that he could BOTH play center AND Dominate in a specific role. But He was NOT a #1 center, and did NOT demonstrate any reason to believe he could be one

Same with Myers. I think he's going to be a franchise all around #1, Norris Caliber defender... but his role was reduced last season, and Sekera had a significantly better year statistically... but NOPE... not according to some posters who have an epic level of homerism accompanying their analysis.

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06-16-2012, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
when the season starts... if no changes are made... Ennis will still be #3... IMO.

Leino-Roy-Poms
Vanek-Hodgson-Tropp
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford

again, by my definition of #3... meaning he will get the easiest minutes
I usually go by what the NHL defines as a second line.

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06-16-2012, 02:30 PM
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I usually go by what the NHL defines as a second line.
can you give me a link to the NHL Dictionary so I can brush up?

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06-16-2012, 02:34 PM
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I usually go by what the NHL defines as a second line.
then your completely contradicting yourself then

because my definition, Ennis was the 3rd center.

Im with Jame on this. Ennis was and probably will be, next years 3rd line center

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06-16-2012, 02:35 PM
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to put it even more simply...

on a Stanley Cup Contending team... Tyler Ennis would be the 3rd most important/most valuable center.

Agree or Disagree?

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06-16-2012, 02:35 PM
  #23
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it's always the same thing around here. If you don't give some arbitrary praise and title, and instead do actual analsyis, then you must be a hater

Ennis was AWESOME in the last 6 weeks. The Sabres learned that he could BOTH play center AND Dominate in a specific role. But He was NOT a #1 center, and did NOT demonstrate any reason to believe he could be one

Same with Myers. I think he's going to be a franchise all around #1, Norris Caliber defender... but his role was reduced last season, and Sekera had a significantly better year statistically... but NOPE... not according to some posters who have an epic level of homerism accompanying their analysis.
I did read something from someone about Ruff's player usage, and Ennis was, according to him, Ruff's #1 center late in the year.

I really think the Sabres would be underestimating Ennis if they dont give him a real shot to be the #1 center. Obviously if you can acquire a proven guy then its a non story, but I want Ennis to get the chance, IMO he deserves it. He plays hard and has point per game potential.

And lets also remember with Ruff, he doesn't really rely on 1 or 2 lines. Any night any line could be RUff's number 1.

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06-16-2012, 02:40 PM
  #24
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I did read something from someone about Ruff's player usage, and Ennis was, according to him, Ruff's #1 center late in the year.
That's BS in my opinion.

Go look through the box scores of each game since that line was united March 10th against Ottawa

Show me the 2 defensemen that were on the ice for every goal that the Ennis line was on the ice for (GF or GA)

Im not doing the leg work on this one... someone prove me wrong

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06-16-2012, 02:41 PM
  #25
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then your completely contradicting yourself then

because my definition, Ennis was the 3rd center.

Im with Jame on this. Ennis was and probably will be, next years 3rd line center
WAS? whats with the was?

With Jameīs definition we wont know who the second line center is until after the game and we look at the stats sheet.

When I watch a hockey game I believe who is the second line center is who Lindy Ruff puts out there not only the most after the first line center but different situations when the first line center is unavailable. Of course there are other factors such as your third or fourth line center being a better faceoff man or playing short handed but I believe the best players usually get the most ice time but like I said there are situations that call for different.

If the sabres have 2 scoring lines next year and two checking lines Ennis would be a top 6 if they roll three scoring lines then where Ennis Starts the season and where Ennis finishes the season could be anywhere from first line to third line but I believe he has the talent that Lindy Ruff will rely on.

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