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Luongo XVI - Licence to Save (Mod Warning in OP)

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Old
06-26-2012, 11:54 AM
  #326
Cogburn
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Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
Do you really believe that Gillis has handled this well?
Not accepting the first offer given to him for a star goaltender? Absolutely.

If these reports of him not wanting to move anywhere but Florida are true, 2 things may have happened here:

One.) He's decided to stay. Florida is named because of family reasons, not for a desire to move.
Two.) He's become a total pud overnight to a team (not a fan base mind you) that has given their best to him, and he has given his best to.

Maybe this call to not move, except to Florida, is to quash media speculation that he would have waived to go to a certain original six team, who doesn't seem to want him anyway...

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Old
06-26-2012, 11:54 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
Leaf fans should ask themselves which would they rather have:

a) 3-5 years of Luongo
b) 6-10 years of Gardiner
The bolded gets my vote.

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Old
06-26-2012, 11:55 AM
  #328
Kessely Snipes
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Do people still believe that Gardiner is going the other way for Luongo?

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Old
06-26-2012, 11:57 AM
  #329
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by Inside McKenzie View Post
Did Schenn not do the same a couple years ago? He was hyped up in TO as a stud back then too. Time will tell how good Gardiner is.
Schenn NEVER played like Gardiner. I like Schenn, but he was/is a stay at home D-man who can hit. Gardiner is better at skating, moving the puck, scoring and hockey vision. The only area Schenn wins is physical play.

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06-26-2012, 11:58 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Gardiner can be every bit as good as Edler in longrun

He is there best dman ,, It doesn't make sense for them to trade there best dman (Also there youngest) for a 33 yr old goalie with a meh contract
Dion Phaneuf is their best defenseman. He plays by far the toughest minutes on the team and did fairly well last season.

Gardiner and Franson played fairly well too last season, but they played by far the easiest minutes on the team. edit: Not many defenders in the NHL played more sheltered minutes than Jake Gardiner.

So the question is if Gardiner (and Franson) can play tougher minutes at this point. With the departure of Schenn, it looks like we'll see that happening soon. However, with the addition of JVR, perhaps those 'tough minutes' will get a bit easier.


Is a goalie of Luongo's calibre worth parting with Gardiner for? Probably. But that's if TO can land Schultz or another UFA defender. But it appears that Luongo has/will deny a trade to TO anyway, so it's moot. Y'know what i mean?


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06-26-2012, 11:58 AM
  #331
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[QUOTE=Cogburn;51550975]Not accepting the first offer given to him for a star goaltender? Absolutely.

If these reports of him not wanting to move anywhere but Florida are true, 2 things may have happened here:

One.) He's decided to stay. Florida is named because of family reasons, not for a desire to move.
Two.) He's become a total pud overnight to a team (not a fan base mind you) that has given their best to him, and he has given his best to.

Maybe this call to not move, except to Florida, is to quash media speculation that he would have waived to go to a certain original six team, who doesn't seem to want him anyway...[/QUOTE]

What has FLA done that TO didn't to make you believe they DO want him?

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06-26-2012, 11:59 AM
  #332
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
Leaf fans should ask themselves which would they rather have:

a) 3-5 years of Luongo
b) 6-10 years of Gardiner
Leafs fans don't have to ask themselves that question because Gardiner wouldn't be traded for Luongo. It's just something Canucks fans like to talk about amongst themselves

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06-26-2012, 11:59 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Pinto View Post


Looking more for prospects/picks or roster players?
Well, myself and many others have already pointed out, we feel fair value is Gardiner+.

maybe this is why a deal hasn't been done yet... Maybe Van and Fla will just end up trading again haha.

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06-26-2012, 12:00 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by TOML View Post
Dion Phaneuf is their best defenseman. He plays by far the toughest minutes on the team and did fairly well last season.

Gardiner and Franson played fairly well too last season, but they played by far the easiest minutes on the team.

So the question is if Gardiner (and Franson) can play tougher minutes at this point. With the departure of Schenn, it looks like we'll see that happening soon. However, with the addition of JVR, perhaps those 'tough minutes' will get a bit easier.


Is a goalie of Luongo's calibre worth parting with Gardiner for? Probably. But that's if TO can land Schultz or another UFA defender. But it appears that Luongo has/will deny a trade to TO anyway, so it's moot. Y'know what i mean?


TOML
While i agree Dion is the Leafs #1D, Gardiner played 20+ minutes a night....hardly sheltered.

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06-26-2012, 12:00 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Those two number one goalies and two award winning centres were a result of Burke's and Nonis' good work.
Yeah, it's not like they had new contracts with the new GM...god, take credit for something your GM did in another city to somehow make your GM look like a genius. I wonder if you think in your mind that some how your team is in better shape then the canucks, no wait I know what you think.

And to say Gillis is a moron to try and reach for the moon? A moron would be to try to get the lowest value. Some guys man...

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06-26-2012, 12:01 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Schenn NEVER played like Gardiner. I like Schenn, but he was/is a stay at home D-man who can hit. Gardiner is better at skating, moving the puck, scoring and hockey vision. The only area Schenn wins is physical play.
Well their styles of play are very different, that is obvious. What I am referring to was the hype around Schenn through his rookie year and into the offseason after it. It seems he did not continually improve each year (yet) into a stud like it seemed many leaf fans claimed he would...

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06-26-2012, 12:01 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Kessely Snipes View Post
Do people still believe that Gardiner is going the other way for Luongo?
Still?? I never did.

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06-26-2012, 12:01 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by kammyBlazer View Post
at least you have your head screwed on right unlike some other people in this thread.

It would also suck if Gardiner regressed from here on like many defenceman do in their 2nd year. I guess we'll see how he can handle himself in the coming years.
Just like Kesler regressed by the start of his rookie season? He wasn't anything special till his 4th year of pro. Gardiner has shown potential and promise that he could be some special why should we trade with him for a 33 yr old goaltender with a ridiculous retirement contract?

rookie season stats

Kesler GP:82 G:10 A:13 P:23
Gardiner GP:75 G:7 A:23 P:30

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Old
06-26-2012, 12:02 PM
  #339
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by Inside McKenzie View Post
Well their styles of play are very different, that is obvious. What I am referring to was the hype around Schenn through his rookie year and into the offseason after it. It seems he did not continually improve each year (yet) into a stud like it seemed many leaf fans claimed he would...
Agreed, but if you watched Gardiner play at all last year, tell me what you saw in him that suggests he'll regress.

I guess the question is....why would i write him off after having such a good rookie campaign?

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06-26-2012, 12:04 PM
  #340
TOML
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
While i agree Dion is the Leafs #1D, Gardiner played 20+ minutes a night....hardly sheltered.
It's all about how he's used. Qualcomp and offensive zone start % don't lie. Y'know what i mean?


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06-26-2012, 12:08 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
Just like Kesler regressed by the start of his rookie season? He wasn't anything special till his 4th year of pro. Gardiner has shown potential and promise that he could be some special why should we trade with him for a 33 yr old goaltender with a ridiculous retirement contract?

rookie season stats

Kesler GP:82 G:10 A:13 P:23
Gardiner GP:75 G:7 A:23 P:30
well that's why a trade hasn't been completed.

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Old
06-26-2012, 12:10 PM
  #342
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by TOML View Post
It's all about how he's used. Qualcomp and offensive zone start % don't lie. Y'know what i mean?


TOML
Or...you can just watch the games. Many times last season when tied or up by 1 late in a game...Gardiner was on, thats what i go by.

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06-26-2012, 12:10 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by kammyBlazer View Post
Well, myself and many others have already pointed out, we feel fair value is Gardiner+.

maybe this is why a deal hasn't been done yet... Maybe Van and Fla will just end up trading again haha.
That.... just isn't going to happen though.

It's basically the equivalent to leaf fans saying they will give you one of LACK + a 4th rounder.

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06-26-2012, 12:12 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Inside McKenzie View Post
Did Schenn not do the same a couple years ago? He was hyped up in TO as a stud back then too. Time will tell how good Gardiner is.
Isn't this what it's all about, though? Every player could regress after a good year, especially rookies. But teams shouldn't just go out and trade these players because they *might* regress. If they feel they're going to progress, they hang onto them to see how they turn out.

But what's puzzling to me is as much as Vancouver fans are stating Gardiner isn't as good as so-and-so and won't live up to the hype and isn't nearly as good as Toronto fans think and it's absurd to consider him untouchable and insane to think he's going to develop into a stud... why do they want him included in a trade for Luongo? If I was that certain the guy is going to be average to below average (which is the impression I get from these threads), I just don't understand why he's mentioned so often as an essential part of any package deal.

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06-26-2012, 12:14 PM
  #345
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I do.

Why would Gillis move Luongo prior to signing Schneider?

Everyone is judging Gillis because a deal wasn't done yesterday, and think that the window has passed. Idiocy. It's still frickin June 26th. Once Schneider is signed, and probably once July 1st has come and gone, teams will know what they need and what they can give up for what they need.
So your theory is that Gillis never made offers to the Leafs and others prior to and at the draft due to the need first to resign Schneider?

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06-26-2012, 12:15 PM
  #346
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Isn't this what it's all about, though? Every player could regress after a good year, especially rookies. But teams shouldn't just go out and trade these players because they *might* regress. If they feel they're going to progress, they hang onto them to see how they turn out.

But what's puzzling to me is as much as Vancouver fans are stating Gardiner isn't as good as so-and-so and won't live up to the hype and isn't nearly as good as Toronto fans think and it's absurd to consider him untouchable and insane to think he's going to develop into a stud... why do they want him included in a trade for Luongo? If I was that certain the guy is going to be average to below average (which is the impression I get from these threads), I just don't understand why he's mentioned so often as an essential part of any package deal.


Ya....interesting isn't it?

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06-26-2012, 12:16 PM
  #347
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That.... just isn't going to happen though.

It's basically the equivalent to leaf fans saying they will give you one of LACK + a 4th rounder.
exactly.

Looking over what the leafs have and what the canucks need.. Gardiner seems like the closest piece of a fair return for Lu. Leafs won't do it because he appears that he will pan out to be a solid defenceman.

Canucks are still in that win now window. Closing within the next 2 years of having a chance at the cup. In conclusion, a trade between the two teams will either not happen or will be centred around different players.

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06-26-2012, 12:16 PM
  #348
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I do.

Why would Gillis move Luongo prior to signing Schneider?

Everyone is judging Gillis because a deal wasn't done yesterday, and think that the window has passed. Idiocy. It's still frickin June 26th. Once Schneider is signed, and probably once July 1st has come and gone, teams will know what they need and what they can give up for what they need.
Well, I guess the question then becomes why Schneider hasn't signed yet. 7/1 is fast approaching. Yes, I realize that it's unfathomable that an offer sheet will be made, but I'd want to get Schneider wrapped up ASAP so I could move forward with other work that needs to be done. If nothing else, it would be a clear sign to Luongo that he may need to expand his virtual "list" of teams he'd be willing to play for.

I still think if Schneider and his agent are smart, they're not signing until the Luongo deal is done and they know where they stand long term with Vancouver. Just my personal opinion.

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06-26-2012, 12:18 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Isn't this what it's all about, though? Every player could regress after a good year, especially rookies. But teams shouldn't just go out and trade these players because they *might* regress. If they feel they're going to progress, they hang onto them to see how they turn out.

But what's puzzling to me is as much as Vancouver fans are stating Gardiner isn't as good as so-and-so and won't live up to the hype and isn't nearly as good as Toronto fans think and it's absurd to consider him untouchable and insane to think he's going to develop into a stud... why do they want him included in a trade for Luongo? If I was that certain the guy is going to be average to below average (which is the impression I get from these threads), I just don't understand why he's mentioned so often as an essential part of any package deal.

You are doing this on purpose to try and stir something up. Both sides have been guilty of downplaying players on the other to make it look better for their team in the trade. Your bizarre assertion that vancouver is the only one doing it is crazy.

Look at how loungo has become an average goalie in this thread by all these leafs fans who don't want him at all(but seem to keep pushing for him).

Don't pick and choose your arguements.

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06-26-2012, 12:18 PM
  #350
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Not accepting the first offer given to him for a star goaltender? Absolutely.
I agree with that - but how many subsequent offers has he turned down?

It's the kind of thing we'll probably never know for sure, but if he's been bargaining and negotiating and refusing to budge (or not budging enough), that might not be the best way to handle the situation.

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