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Old
06-25-2012, 04:22 PM
  #51
TheLeastOfTheBunch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Yep, and those voting either way for defense or prospects probably don't have that good idea of what the other team has.

Management/coaching - eh way to early to tell except for Burke.
Agreed, not too many Leafs fans have seen Biggs/Ross, Rielly, etc, play, let alone Habs fans (and vice versa).

Goaltending is the big difference here, however.

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Old
06-25-2012, 04:46 PM
  #52
Lion
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Prospects: Leafs
Goalies: Habs (If Leafs get Luongo... Watch out..)
Forwards: Leafs
Defence: Leafs
Management: Draw
Coaches: Draw

Overall, I'd take Toronto going forward, they're set to make the playoffs finally this year.

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Old
06-25-2012, 07:28 PM
  #53
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H-L
Prospect - Habs because of the addition of the recent draft 10-9
Goalie - Habs landslide 10-3
Forward - Toronto because of Kessels 8-10
Defence - Toronto With a healthy Markov Habs 10-9
Management - EARLY BUT IF THE DRAFT IS ANY INDICATION 9-9
Coaches - Toronto DON'T CARE FOR EITHER 7-9
Total 54 -49 for the Habs
Habs = winners.

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Old
06-25-2012, 07:34 PM
  #54
Younghockey94
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Prospects: Leafs
Goalie: Habs
Forward: Leafs
Defence: Leafs
Management: Leafs
Coaches: Leafs.

Overall Who is the better team? Leafs.

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Old
06-25-2012, 07:44 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Younghockey94 View Post
Prospects: Leafs
Goalie: Habs
Forward: Leafs
Defence: Leafs
Management: Leafs
Coaches: Leafs.

Overall Who is the better team? Leafs.
This

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Old
06-25-2012, 08:01 PM
  #56
Liminality
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I'm actually impressed this thread hasn't turned into a black hole of arguing.
I think there's some good comparisons in the thread and in the end it does end up pretty close either way.

Not that it matters but I'll post what I think currently.

Prospects-Habs. They did great this year and got a centre with tons of potential. Leafs have good depth in all positions but no blue chippers (besides maybe Rielly for D). Montreal has some up and coming potential also, really hard to determine the future.

Forwards-Leafs. The Leafs have Kessel, Grabovski, Lupul, JVR, Bozak, MacArthur and hopefully a rebounding Kulemin on their offense. Montreal have Max Pac, Cole, DD and Plekanec as their main offense.

Defence-Habs. Basing off of the team right now, with the departure of Schenn it edges towards the Habs a bit. I'm not sure how healthy Markov is now but he's only played 73 games the past 3 seasons (including playoffs). This is pretty much a tie though in my eyes.

Goaltending-Habs. Easily Habs at this point. Price is proving he's one of the top young goalies in the NHL and the Leafs are only relying on potential at the moment with their crop.

Coaching-TBD. I think we'll need to see both coaches for a full season to fairly judge them at all.

Management-TBD. I like the front office for the Leafs and trust the management in place. Montreal has a new GM though and has only had a draft to judge him. Adding Dudley was a nice addition to their office though.

Habs have a slightly better team due to having a proven and young goalie in net for them. This might come down to coaching in the end and both teams futures are up in the air for next season at the moment.

Also I doubt both teams are done this offseason and it would be more fair to re-evaluate both clubs after Montreal's GM makes some FA moves and Burke does whatever he's going to do.

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Old
06-25-2012, 08:11 PM
  #57
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Prospects: Leafs, quite easily. Montreal has the best guy in Galchenyuk, but Toronto has a much longer list of NHL-ready high potential players.

Goaltending: Habs, obviously.

Defence: Toronto. I keep reading about Andrei Markov and how he tips this in Montreal's favour... I just don't buy it. The guy has played 70 games in the past 3 seasons. Nobody knows how many games he'll play and whether he'll be the defenceman he was 3 years ago or a shadow of his former self. You've also gotta factor in the Subban headache which really never seems to go away.

Forwards: Toronto. You've gotta like the depth they've amassed up front with 6 guys reasonably capable of potting 20+ including Phil Kessel who's obviously capable of much more than that. Montreal just doesn't have that kind of firepower.

Coaching: Even

Management: Montreal -- Gotta take the guy who's got a clean bill versus Burke who's been nothing short of a complete failure since coming to Toronto.

In terms of who I think has the better chances of a playoff spot right now, I'd say Montreal. Toronto's basically filled their roster and the team doesn't look that different from last year. Montreal hasn't filled out their roster yet and the holes that they do have shouldn't be as hard to fill as Toronto's. That being said, if the Leafs do land a bonafide #1 goaltender, that quickly tips the scales in their favour.

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Old
06-25-2012, 08:35 PM
  #58
Bob Cole
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Leafs have had the better team every year since the lockout according to HF Leafs fans. A top 5 D on paper too.

Prospects: Draw
Goalies: Habs AINEC
Forwards: Leafs
Defence: Habs
Management: Too early.
Coaches: Too early.

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Old
06-25-2012, 08:40 PM
  #59
iPunch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Carmoni View Post
Leafs have had the better team every year since the lockout according to HF Leafs fans.
Who finished higher last year again?

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Old
06-25-2012, 08:49 PM
  #60
Bob Cole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Who finished higher last year again?
Out-tanked. Now we have Gally so its all good .

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Old
06-25-2012, 08:54 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Management: Leafs. Proven Stanley Cup winning GM who has turned this team around extremely quickly with a bunch of great moves, with I believe the largest collection of management positions below him, including past GMs and assistant GMs with notable accomplishments. Habs just hired their management, and the last GM was a disgrace.
I won't get into the whole debate, I think both teams need to do a lot of work to get back to being relevant again,. PG in Montreal, as you noted, was a disgrace and the Gomez/Kaberle trades were horrible and set the team back.

However I have to disagree with you on Burke on turning the Leafs around (and I don't care what he did in the past on other teams). Since Burke joined the Leafs on November 29th, 2008 the Leafs have finished (in the league) 7th worst, 2nd worst, 9th worst, and now 5th worst. Those results show me he hasn't turned anything around and the Leafs, like the Habs, are still a major work in progress.

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Old
06-25-2012, 10:09 PM
  #62
habsfan4life1996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Who finished higher last year again?
Thats just last year man ! we actually have ben making the playoffs before this season we were consistent too bro

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Old
06-25-2012, 10:46 PM
  #63
Melnyks Mirage
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Leafs Blue Habs Red

Prospect vs prospect
Goalie vs goalie
Forward vs forward
Defence vs defence
Management vs management
Coaches vs coaches

Overall Who is the better team?

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Old
06-25-2012, 11:42 PM
  #64
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHfan1 View Post
I won't get into the whole debate, I think both teams need to do a lot of work to get back to being relevant again,. PG in Montreal, as you noted, was a disgrace and the Gomez/Kaberle trades were horrible and set the team back.

However I have to disagree with you on Burke on turning the Leafs around (and I don't care what he did in the past on other teams). Since Burke joined the Leafs on November 29th, 2008 the Leafs have finished (in the league) 7th worst, 2nd worst, 9th worst, and now 5th worst. Those results show me he hasn't turned anything around and the Leafs, like the Habs, are still a major work in progress.
Lets look before and after:

Top line C - Bozak vs. Stajan, well not much of an upgrade but still there
Top line W - Ponikarovski/Antropov vs. Kessel/Lupul .......
2nd line C - Grabovski = Grabovski
2nd line W - Blake/Hagman vs. MacArthur/JVR - Easy upgrade
3rd line C - Connolly vs. Moore - Who cares really? Rather have Moore though
3rd line W - Kulemin/Tlusty vs. Kulemin/Kadri or Frattin - becomes a debate of Frattin/Kadri vs. Tlusty which is still TBD

#1 D - Kaberle vs. Phaneuf, Hard hitting two-way D(stronger OFD then DFD) vs. soft OFD, i take Phaneuf
#2 D - Gunnarsson vs. Finger -
#3D - Kubina vs. Liles - buhp? pretty equal IMO
#4D - Gardiner vs. Colaiacovo - Gardiner easily
#5D - Stralman vs. Franson - pretty equal
#6D - White vs. Komisarek - Massive downgrade

G

Toskala vs. Reimer - I take Reimer but still close for now.

Don't look at the place the team ranked, look at the turn over. The team was filled with aging vets that were 2nd tier regardless, at least now they have been replaced with young players with promise. So although the results have been somewhat the same, overall the team has been a massive upgrade.

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Old
06-25-2012, 11:47 PM
  #65
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Two teams that stink with a ton of question marks moving forward. I have no freaking idea.

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Old
06-25-2012, 11:51 PM
  #66
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Toronto has a slight edge on prospects. Toronto easily takes forwards. Sure they don't have great centre depth but they have Lupul, Kessel, Grabovski, JVR, Kulemin, MacArthur, And Kadri & Frattin might be up at the big club next season who are both extremely talented

The D is a wash. Both equal.

Management.... Who knows yet?

Coaching... Toronto easily. Carlyle won a cup and was a great success in Anaheim until last season while Therrien couldn't make the playoffs with a stacked Pens team.

Goaltending easily goes to Habs.


Overall Toronto. They have better forwards, better prospects, better coaching and they are a much younger team that will improve. They need a goalie but other than a few other minor pieces they could be a contender.

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Old
06-25-2012, 11:59 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfan4life1996 View Post
i actually think habs have a better defence , georges subban markov diaz emelin and beaulieu and tinordi coming
Then I might just change my post to have the leafs win in terms of D if that is all they have.

The leafs have Phaneuf, Gardiner, Liles, Franson, Gunnarsson, and have Rielly, Percy, Blacker, and Holzer coming up.


And also I don't get why people are giving the Habs the edge in terms of prospects. If you look at both lists Toronto has the edge. I especially don't get why people are giving them the edge just because of this years draft. As if the leafs had a horrible draft? Rielly has tremendous upside and they got Matt Finn at 35 who some scouts had as high as 9. I also think their 7th round pick this year could be a steal.


Last edited by Kulemon: 06-26-2012 at 12:05 AM.
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Old
06-26-2012, 12:01 AM
  #68
Jack Bourdain
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Hope the Leafs and Habs meet in the playoffs next year, should answer some of these questions .

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Old
06-26-2012, 12:02 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Toronto has a slight edge on prospects. Toronto easily takes forwards. Sure they don't have great centre depth but they have Lupul, Kessel, Grabovski, JVR, Kulemin, MacArthur, And Kadri & Frattin might be up at the big club next season who are both extremely talented

The D is a wash. Both equal.

Management.... Who knows yet?

Coaching... Toronto easily. Carlyle won a cup and was a great success in Anaheim until last season while Therrien couldn't make the playoffs with a stacked Pens team.

Goaltending easily goes to Habs.


Overall Toronto. They have better forwards, better prospects, better coaching and they are a much younger team that will improve. They need a goalie but other than a few other minor pieces they could be a contender.
Hahahha

Therrien went to the finals the year before he was fired. Thanks for coming out slugger.

Also, an extra LoL at the Leafs being a "much younger team that will improve"


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Old
06-26-2012, 12:14 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Who finished higher last year again?
Love this argument. Habs were a fringe playoff team at best. The leafs fell from #1 in the East all the way to #13th. That's not exactly something to be proud of. Also the fact Montreal lead the league in man games lost with 403, almost double Toronto.

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Old
06-26-2012, 12:24 AM
  #71
Benny FTW
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Prospect vs prospect Toronto
Goalie vs goalie Montreal
Forward vs forward Toronto
Defence vs defence Toronto
Management vs management Montreal
Coaches vs coaches Toronto

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Old
06-26-2012, 12:27 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Roffler View Post
Prospect vs prospect Toronto
Goalie vs goalie Montreal
Forward vs forward Toronto
Defence vs defence Toronto
Management vs management Montreal
Coaches vs coaches Toronto
Why does Toronto have better prospects than Montreal?

Just people wildly overrating hockeysfuture rankings like usual I guess?

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Old
06-26-2012, 12:32 AM
  #73
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Why does Toronto have better prospects than Montreal?

Just people wildly overrating hockeysfuture rankings like usual I guess?
Toronto has depth, Montreal had a good draft but before that this wouldn't even be a question. The fact that a few 2nd/3rd round talents slipped does not mean they are now undoubtedly better, players slip for a reason. (this is not to take away from Galcheyuk or Collberg/Thrower but those talents were matched by Toronto's first 2 picks in this draft).

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Old
06-26-2012, 12:53 AM
  #74
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How can the Leafs get the edge on management. Burke has been a colossal failure in Toronto. 4 years of missing the playoffs, traded Seguin+Hamilton, no #1C, no #1D, no goalie. Montreal has all of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Toronto has depth, Montreal had a good draft but before that this wouldn't even be a question. The fact that a few 2nd/3rd round talents slipped does not mean they are now undoubtedly better, players slip for a reason. (this is not to take away from Galcheyuk or Collberg/Thrower but those talents were matched by Toronto's first 2 picks in this draft).
I agree. Rielly+Finn matches Collberg+Thrower.

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Old
06-26-2012, 01:18 AM
  #75
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Post-draft with the Habs picking higher and twice in the second round the two prospect pools probably come to about even.

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