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Leafs Defense

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Old
06-27-2012, 04:25 PM
  #1
SoulAssassin
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Leafs Defense

What is everyone's thoughts on this D moving forward into the season? Obviously it is unknown if Burke makes anymore trades or FA signings but how do you see it stacking up?

Being an LA fan I love how they have a veteran Defensive minded D-man paired with their young offensive guys, just dont see that happening in Leafs system. Also, Im sure its unlikely to happen but if Burke truly thought Rielly was a 1st overall guy, would that not be an indication he should be an immediate impact?

Gardiner- ???
Rielly- ???
Liles-Phaneuf

Komisarek, Gunnar, Franson, Holzer

Does Schulltz fit somewhere? Does Rielly take a full season in the CHL again?

I thought Zybnek Michalek would have been a great addition to this core with what he could provide, especially being a RHD whose D first mentality would compliment either Gardiner or Rielly very well. That option is gone.. Any other thoughts...

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06-27-2012, 04:27 PM
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Rielly missed most of his draft year due to the ACL injury he suffered in November. He is going back to Moose Jaw almost certainly.

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06-27-2012, 04:29 PM
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I highly doubt Reilly will play for us next year, and Schultz hasn't said he'll sign with us, so it's stupid to pencil either of those in.

I wouldn't mind us giving Rozsival and Carle looks.

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Old
06-27-2012, 04:29 PM
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Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Liles-Gardiner
Komisarek-Franson

Rielly will play in the AHL, Burke is ************ that first overall thing, does not know what the hell he's talking about. We have other solid prospects but no room for them. Wish we could move Komisarek..... *sigh*

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06-27-2012, 04:30 PM
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[QUOTE=SoulAssassin;51620595]What is everyone's thoughts on this D moving forward into the season? Obviously it is unknown if Burke makes anymore trades or FA signings but how do you see it stacking up?

I love discussing the Leafs, but in the Leaf's Forum.

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06-27-2012, 04:33 PM
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frankthetank91
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Well going into this season I predict it will look a lot like this:

Gunnarsson-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Schultz(If we sign him) if not Franson/Holzer
Liles-Franson/Holzer/Komisarek

Rielly, Blacker, Percy and Finn are the 4 that will probably break in starting next season. It's a young D but it's looking good, there was just no room for Schenn. Theres no room for Komisarek either but I think another RD will be traded, probably Franson but I hope not.

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06-27-2012, 04:36 PM
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I'll say Leafs D looks very good. Excellent draft choice in Reilly...
The kid is like D version of RNH .. great vision, passing and speed.

Phaneuf, Gardiner, Liles, Reilly, Franson and Gunnarson = solid group even if they luck out on Schultz.

Reilly would probably be in minors for another year so Leaf fans might have to live with Komisarek for another. Future looks bright on D.

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06-27-2012, 04:39 PM
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Pretty sure Reilly can't play in the ahl this year anyway

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06-27-2012, 04:39 PM
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Schenn was moved because Holzer is ready and will have a roster spot this coming season.

Phaneuf
Gunnar
Gardiner
Liles
Holzer
Franson/Komisarek

If we're able to sign Schultz, I think Franson will be moved before the season begins and Komi will be in the press box until someone goes down with an injury.

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06-27-2012, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
Well going into this season I predict it will look a lot like this:

Gunnarsson-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Schultz(If we sign him) if not Franson/Holzer
Liles-Franson/Holzer/Komisarek

Rielly, Blacker, Percy and Finn are the 4 that will probably break in starting next season. It's a young D but it's looking good, there was just no room for Schenn. Theres no room for Komisarek either but I think another RD will be traded, probably Franson but I hope not.
Liles can move up to the second pairing if Gardiner regresses as well. It also isn't out of the question to consider Blacker coming in partway through the season like Aulie did a couple seasons ago and how management originally expected Gardiner to. Originally they expected a call up in the same vein as how Aulie was brought up with one of Gardiner or Blacker, but obviously Gardiner was spectacular out of camp. I wouldn't be surprised to see Blacker emerge sometime this year though.

There was plenty of room for Schenn. We dealt from a position of strength to address a position of weakness. You have to give quality to get quality. It was a hockey trade, there was certainly room for Schenn. I don't think management wants to see Holzer anywhere near the second pairing. If anything you'll see Komisarek thrive under Carlyle's system and fill in for Schenn if we don't sign Schultz or Schultz doesn't play his way into that spot.

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Old
06-27-2012, 04:42 PM
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This sorta does belong in the Leafs forum, but I can understand that OP wanted to see what non-Leafs fans thought of the Leafs D going forward (at least I hope).

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06-27-2012, 04:54 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkinfeller View Post
Schenn was moved because Holzer is ready and will have a roster spot this coming season.

Phaneuf
Gunnar
Gardiner
Liles
Holzer
Franson/Komisarek

If we're able to sign Schultz, I think Franson will be moved before the season begins and Komi will be in the press box until someone goes down with an injury.
This is how I see our defence this year.

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06-27-2012, 04:56 PM
  #13
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If no Schultz and the goaltending tandem is Reimer/Scrivens, it's going to be a long season.

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06-27-2012, 05:03 PM
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I think that TML D have a lot of potential...and they are really young so that's a good thing.
But i dont think they are that good RIGHT NOW...
Phaneuf as your No.1 is kind of scary...
I dont think Gunnarsson is a legit top 4 guy.
Gardiner is nice for sure. Liles is a good No.5 guy on a good team..i dont think he's a solid top 4 guy on a good team.. Komisarek is a pilon. Franson isnt quite a no.4 guy.
Lots of potential..but i see many goals against in the leafs future for sure.

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06-27-2012, 05:09 PM
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Before they seemed to play a stay at home D with an offensive D and if they cont down that road I see Phaneuf with Gunnarsson, Gardiner with Franson and Liles with Komi, Holzer, (longshots) Blacker and Percy. But if they go with the best 6 with out looking at handedness etc then Phaneuf-Gardiner then Gunnarsson-Liles and the top 2 out of Franson, Komi, Holzer, Blacker and Percy.

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Old
06-27-2012, 05:20 PM
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My thoughts on the Leafs' D are quite pessimistic. There's always the temptation to evaluate each member of the anticipated top 6 defensemen and think "this guy's pretty good" and "that guy has a lot of potential" and so on and so forth, which often leads to the conclusion that the Leafs are deep and solid on defense. But that kind of analysis in this case would be grossly incomplete and misleading. Because when you evaluate the unit as a whole, it's been nothing short of a royal mess. And I can't really find a persuasive reason to believe differently for this upcoming season, with or without Schultz.

What the Leafs lack, in my opinion, is balance on defense. There's a woeful shortage of rugged and reliable shutdown types and an abundance of mobile, offensively-oriented types. Not surprisingly, they were pretty good with the puck and pretty abysmal without it. Making matters worse, Toronto has perhaps the worst goaltending situation in the entire league, and up to this point, haven't shown the top-to-bottom commitment to team defense that you see from the true contending teams. Supposedly, Carlyle will install a defense-first system, but he failed to do that in Anaheim without the HoF duo of Pronger and Niedermeyer, and the Leafs still looked incompetent on defense after he took over from Wilson. If I was a Leafs fan, I'd just want to cover my eyes when my team loses possession of the puck.

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06-27-2012, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
This sorta does belong in the Leafs forum, but I can understand that OP wanted to see what non-Leafs fans thought of the Leafs D going forward (at least I hope).
Thank you. While I didnt propose any trade options, I was trying to get a feel for where biased and unbiased fans thought the D was at and if they could forsee any trades/movement associated around this D.

I also suggested Michalek would have been a great guy for the TML's to jump in on but obviously they did not.

Personally, not being a fan of the Leafs but watching most of their games Im all for dealing Franson and Gunnarson. While I dont value them as high as most do, if their is said value in them I believe you should be able to acquire some decent assets for them

Assuming you sign Schultz and Komisarek thrives like some suggest, your left with finding one more D to round out the 6. Gunnar and Franson could be a part of some bigger packages, or maybe acquire assets on their own.

While most dont like it, Ive heard names like Dubinsky and Bickell floated around the Leafs with guys like Franson, Gunnar and MacArthur on their way out. Im not opposed but I have different theories then most Leafs fans.

Im all for Rielly finding another year in the minors to develop and at the end of the day see the Leafs as having a much stronger prospect pool then a few short years ago. Colborne and Kadri should be on the big club this year in my opinion but Im sure that will be determined by their camps and the plethora of forwards left in camp in Burkie makes no trades.

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Old
06-27-2012, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DopitaToDemitra View Post
I think that TML D have a lot of potential...and they are really young so that's a good thing.
But i dont think they are that good RIGHT NOW...
Phaneuf as your No.1 is kind of scary...
I dont think Gunnarsson is a legit top 4 guy.
Gardiner is nice for sure. Liles is a good No.5 guy on a good team..i dont think he's a solid top 4 guy on a good team.. Komisarek is a pilon. Franson isnt quite a no.4 guy.
Lots of potential..but i see many goals against in the leafs future for sure.
Thank you for saying this. I dont see it either and i firmly believe put in pressure situations such as the playoffs or crucial games down the road you will see him disappear. Karel Pilar comes to mind but Leafs fans for the most part seem to value him like gold.

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06-27-2012, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SoulAssassin View Post
Thank you for saying this. I dont see it either and i firmly believe put in pressure situations such as the playoffs or crucial games down the road you will see him disappear. Karel Pilar comes to mind but Leafs fans for the most part seem to value him like gold.
Just curious, but why do you think that? Gunnarsson's biggest assets are that he doesn't try to do too much, he's very consistent, he's calm when he plays the puck and makes a good first pass out of the zone. Also, while he doesn't try to make big hits, he's not afraid of being hit, he'll take a hit to make a play, and he'll initiate contact along the boards if he has to. That doesn't sound like qualities that would indicate he would fall apart in the playoffs, in fact it's quite the opposite.

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06-27-2012, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Leafsrtehbest View Post
Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Liles-Gardiner
Komisarek-Franson

Rielly will play in the AHL, Burke is ************ that first overall thing, does not know what the hell he's talking about. We have other solid prospects but no room for them. Wish we could move Komisarek..... *sigh*
tytyty agree with it all

plus i know every GM says "we ranked this kid alot higher then we drafted him.." but that BS outta burke's mouth " if we had the first, we still would have pickd Rielly 1st overall" you dont say that ****... and if he would of, he should be fired...

p.s. best part of the draft was Rielly's dad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbcnOu4Fq2g

GO LEAFS GO!

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Old
06-27-2012, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Kbs View Post
Just curious, but why do you think that? Gunnarsson's biggest assets are that he doesn't try to do too much, he's very consistent, he's calm when he plays the puck and makes a good first pass out of the zone. Also, while he doesn't try to make big hits, he's not afraid of being hit, he'll take a hit to make a play, and he'll initiate contact along the boards if he has to. That doesn't sound like qualities that would indicate he would fall apart in the playoffs, in fact it's quite the opposite.
I wont question his skating ability, nor his play with the puck. I believe his defense is less then average and while he may take a hit, he seems to become much less effective when the game gets more rugged. Just my opinion and observation, but I dont see him as a top4 guy, nor do I see him as someone a serious team will have in their starting D.

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Old
06-27-2012, 05:50 PM
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Rielly is almost certainly going back to Jr.



Phaneuf
Gunnarson
Liles
Gardiner
Franson
Komisarek

Holzer as 7th man

Outside chance of Jessie Blacker making the team out of camp.

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Old
06-27-2012, 06:17 PM
  #23
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Next season:
Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Gardiner-Schultz/Holzer
Liles-Franson/Holzer
Franson/Komisarek

Future:
Reilly-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Schultz/Finn
Blacker-Percy
XXXXX


Last edited by Leafs For Life*: 06-28-2012 at 01:19 PM.
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Old
06-27-2012, 06:23 PM
  #24
thinkinfeller
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Originally Posted by FrontalLombardomy View Post
There was plenty of room for Schenn. We dealt from a position of strength to address a position of weakness. You have to give quality to get quality. It was a hockey trade, there was certainly room for Schenn. I don't think management wants to see Holzer anywhere near the second pairing. If anything you'll see Komisarek thrive under Carlyle's system and fill in for Schenn if we don't sign Schultz or Schultz doesn't play his way into that spot.
Of course there was plenty of room for Schenn, but having a similar defenceman in Holzer who is ready to step into the NHL (has been ready since the all-star break), made it easier to deal Schenn.

I couldn't decide which of your cliches to address directly at first, but decided on "We dealt from a position of strength to address a position of weakness" - are you saying we have a strong blueline? Really? Our blueline has alot of potential but was one of the worst in the league last season and trading a solid young stay at home defender in Schenn for another top 6 winger is hardly what I would call dealing from a position of strength to address a position of weakness. Without a suitable replacement for Schenn waiting in the wings, I don't think Burke trades for JVR, but that's just me.

Edit: I also believe Rielly is going back to junior.

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Old
06-27-2012, 06:45 PM
  #25
EucaLEAFtys
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Originally Posted by AWL View Post
My thoughts on the Leafs' D are quite pessimistic. There's always the temptation to evaluate each member of the anticipated top 6 defensemen and think "this guy's pretty good" and "that guy has a lot of potential" and so on and so forth, which often leads to the conclusion that the Leafs are deep and solid on defense. But that kind of analysis in this case would be grossly incomplete and misleading. Because when you evaluate the unit as a whole, it's been nothing short of a royal mess. And I can't really find a persuasive reason to believe differently for this upcoming season, with or without Schultz.

What the Leafs lack, in my opinion, is balance on defense. There's a woeful shortage of rugged and reliable shutdown types and an abundance of mobile, offensively-oriented types. Not surprisingly, they were pretty good with the puck and pretty abysmal without it. Making matters worse, Toronto has perhaps the worst goaltending situation in the entire league, and up to this point, haven't shown the top-to-bottom commitment to team defense that you see from the true contending teams. Supposedly, Carlyle will install a defense-first system, but he failed to do that in Anaheim without the HoF duo of Pronger and Niedermeyer, and the Leafs still looked incompetent on defense after he took over from Wilson. If I was a Leafs fan, I'd just want to cover my eyes when my team loses possession of the puck.
Excellent post! I couldn't have said it any better.

At this point in time, the Leafs' defence is now even worse than it was at the end of this past regular season.

It's very likely going to be yet another VERY long season next season if the Leafs' defence isn't significantly improved this summer.

Without significant improvements, the Leafs' defence will remain as one of the league's worst.

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