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Report: Isles offered all picks to Jackets for No. 2 [Per NHL.com]

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Old
06-26-2012, 06:02 AM
  #126
Human
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Originally Posted by Clamshells View Post
I'd like to offer you my team's next 15 7th round picks for your team's next 1st round pick.

Don't be ridiculous and refuse my most generous of offers.
and the correlation with the subject in case?


Last edited by Human: 06-26-2012 at 06:09 AM.
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Old
06-26-2012, 07:53 AM
  #127
Clamshells
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Originally Posted by jigsaw99 View Post
expect he is not offering bunch of 7th picks which is super rare to produce any players. He is offering 1st (which is only two spots down at 4th) and the rest of his picks. And also, this was not a very consences top 5 pick draft. Any of the 2,3,4,5 picks could of been switched around.
The point is that its quantity vs. quality. Picks 4-7 are essentially valueless. So its a 2nd and a 3rd (and some throw away picks) to upgrade from Reinhart to Murray, who was pretty much unanimously agreed to go top 2. At least two NHL GMs think that Murray was better than Reinhart by at least the value of a 2nd and 3rd (and some throw away picks).

It was absolutely a smart decision by both GMs to want to have the better prospect over the one or two good prospects and many not so good prospects.


e: put detroit in the islanders place (detroit finishing where the islanders did), and everybody would be applauding holland's bold move to try to pick up an impact player in a weak draft.


Last edited by Clamshells: 06-26-2012 at 08:31 AM.
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Old
06-26-2012, 09:45 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by puckyeah View Post
Here's why Howson has to take this deal. Because the PERCEPTION is that its an amazing deal for him and his team. All the people who are saying he's the 'worst GM' in the game (and there are plenty) would have been silenced, at least temporarily. Just the sheer volume of selections makes it worth while for his personal image. He could have said "we had the top 4 guys interchangable, so to us, this was a no brainer"

By passing this offer, Howson essentially solidified that he's really not the right man to lead the Jackets into the next decade EVEN IF HIS PASSING THIS DEAL WAS TECHNICALLY THE RIGHT THING.
What kind of bloody logic is this?

Howson catches flak for every move he makes. He accepts that deal and everyone would be talking about how big of an idiot he is.

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06-26-2012, 11:12 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by jigsaw99 View Post
Murray is no Niedremayer. More of a Hamhuis. And the Jets could of drafted Forsberg who was picked right after Ward.
Except that everyone thought Philadelphia had lost their minds for drafting Forsberg that high. He was seen as the running mate to Markus Naslund, and it was a foregone conclusion that Naslund would go before Forsberg.

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06-26-2012, 11:44 AM
  #130
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How do those GMs still have jobs?

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06-26-2012, 11:57 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
I know right.

People are coming in here and saying that the value between Murray and Reinhart isn't big as if they have a scouting staff on hand.

I'll take the word of two NHL GM's if Snow made the offer and Howson refused.
Yeah, because both Snow and Howson have proven to be shrewd evaluators of talent.

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06-26-2012, 12:02 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Totally an NHL 12 move, this stuff never happens in real life.
Ricky Williams.

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06-26-2012, 12:04 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Yeah, because both Snow and Howson have proven to be shrewd evaluators of talent.
Even the worst NHL GM is better at his job than the smartest poster on hfboards.

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06-26-2012, 01:28 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Even the worst NHL GM is better at his job than the smartest poster on hfboards.
Yeah, let's pretend hockey is anything but an old boy's club where reputations and contacts go twice as far as actual competence.

PS Bob McKenzie is an hfboards poster too, you know the 'most respected mind in hockey journalism' or whatever. Maybe even an actual GM or too.

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Old
06-26-2012, 01:39 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Sarcastic View Post
What kind of bloody logic is this?

Howson catches flak for every move he makes. He accepts that deal and everyone would be talking about how big of an idiot he is.
Don't you know? That's how you know which move is the right one!

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06-26-2012, 01:46 PM
  #136
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People who think NYI is a poorly managed team obviously haven't been watching them closely in recent years.

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06-26-2012, 01:52 PM
  #137
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If they were doing this for Nail (in hopes he fell to 2 as puckdaddys article says) then I wouldve been fine giving all that up.

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06-26-2012, 01:53 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Flavour View Post
Yeah, let's pretend hockey is anything but an old boy's club where reputations and contacts go twice as far as actual competence.

PS Bob McKenzie is an hfboards poster too, you know the 'most respected mind in hockey journalism' or whatever. Maybe even an actual GM or too.
McKenzie doesn't post on here often at all.

And of course it may be an old boy's club. That's part of the reason why they'd be better than one of us, because they actually have the contacts.

I'm not really defending Howson much because I hope he gets fired. I'm just saying that he is privy to much more information than we, or even journalist/pundits, are. His opinion of a player is still valued more highly than anybody else's who isn't a GM. Finally, Howson's ability to assess talent isn't his downfall. He's actually quite good at talent assessment of players. Where he sucks is assessing talented management or coaches. I am of the opinion that the players he's drafted (Voracek, Filatov, Moore, Johansen, Murray) amongst others are talented individuals who have not been adequately brought up. Here, his failing is not in prospect talent assessment but instead not putting the right people in charge of training these players.

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06-26-2012, 01:56 PM
  #139
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Why wouldn't CBJ take these, then trade some of those picks for some decent players ?

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Old
06-26-2012, 02:00 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by E_Godard View Post
If they were doing this for Nail (in hopes he fell to 2 as puckdaddys article says) then I wouldve been fine giving all that up.
If it was for Yakupov, then the deal makes more than sense.

Islanders need someone as talented as Tavares to play with, a 1-2 combo of Tavares + Nail would've been deadly and easily worth the cost of a 2nd + 3rd + 4th that may never even play in the NHL period.

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06-26-2012, 02:00 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Charlie Sheen Swag View Post
Why wouldn't CBJ take these, then trade some of those picks for some decent players ?
To quote HNIC:

Quote:
A few readers pointed out on Twitter that all those extra picks would give the Blue Jackets greater flexibility to make other moves and more chances to hit the jackpot.

There's great disagreement with that thinking. The trades at this year's draft were hockey deals, not about flipping picks. The Buffalo Sabres and Calgary Flames made their first-round swap, while the San Jose Sharks and Chicago Blackhawks did a small one involving the 109th and 191st choices. Other than that, it was so quiet that just one timeout was called. Everything was done by approximately 3 p.m. ET Saturday.

This wasn't the draft to be stocking selections, never mind the fact that so many picks could cause headaches with a team's 50-contract limit. When it was all over, Columbus got two players it wanted -- Ryan Murray (second) and Oscar Dansk (31st) -- and the Islanders can't be too upset with Griffin Reinhart as so many teams raved about him in the last few weeks.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html

Like it or not, the draft was extremely quiet with regards to trades. It was unlikely that a GM would make more than one trade that weekend, let alone getting a huge influx of picks and then attempting to swing a bunch of them.

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06-26-2012, 02:17 PM
  #142
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I dont know what to think about this honestly.

Howson must not trust in his scouting staff. I mean, there was no clear superstar player available in this draft. Yeah, Murray was the best defenseman but its not like he is miles ahead of the others. He might not even be the best defenseman down the road. So why would you not trade your #2 pick for all those picks? Only answer: he didnt trust that they could draft other players that will play in the NHL.

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Old
06-26-2012, 02:33 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Shellz View Post
Lolz. Couple of idiots.
Two worst GMs in the game!

...Now that Darryl Sutter is no longer a GM.

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06-26-2012, 02:35 PM
  #144
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Howson should be fired now. Like right now. What a freaking moron.

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06-26-2012, 03:18 PM
  #145
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This thread is actually kind of disturbing. Here's the general thought process...

Garth Snow made a huge offer to get Ryan Murray. That was stupid because everyone knows 7>1.
Howson declined that huge offer just to take Murray when he could have had Reinhart ++. That was stupid too.

Instead of making the obvious connection that two scouting staffs clearly placed huge value on Ryan Murray, the conclusion is that since they were ranked close to one another, it was dumb of Snow to offer that much and even dumber of Howson to decline that stupid offer.

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06-26-2012, 03:36 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
Garth Snow made a huge offer to get Ryan Murray. That was stupid because everyone knows 7>1.
Howson declined that huge offer just to take Murray when he could have had Reinhart ++. That was stupid too.
What's the problem?

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06-26-2012, 03:44 PM
  #147
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It wouldn't surprise me if the offer was only if Yakupov fell, but Columbus officials saying it was for Murray to get the fanbase excited about their pick. Instead it backfired with many of their fans furious they didn't take the offer.

Just a thought.

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06-26-2012, 03:52 PM
  #148
Crisp Breakout
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
What's the problem?
The problem is that if we felt Murray was going to have a much better career (or was even just more likely to be comfortable playing in Columbus for 15 years) than Reinhart et al., it would have been immensely dense to deal for quantity.

The highest piece coming to the Jackets was a second round pick. Usually folks around here are quick to point out how bad the Jackets are at drafting, but apparently it's only when it's convenient for their argument. Take a quick look at all of the Jackets draft picks after the 1st round and get an idea of what our chances of finding just an average NHL player were even if this draft isn't below average in terms of quality.

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06-26-2012, 03:57 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
The problem is that if we felt Murray was going to have a much better career (or was even just more likely to be comfortable playing in Columbus for 15 years) than Reinhart et al., it would have been immensely dense to deal for quantity.

The highest piece coming to the Jackets was a second round pick. Usually folks around here are quick to point out how bad the Jackets are at drafting, but apparently it's only when it's convenient for their argument. Take a quick look at all of the Jackets draft picks after the 1st round and get an idea of what our chances of finding just an average NHL player were even if this draft isn't below average in terms of quality.
Yeah - just messin'. Was trying to highlight and help what you were presenting as an obvious dichotomy.

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06-26-2012, 03:59 PM
  #150
Crisp Breakout
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Yeah - just messin'.
I thought you were setting me up

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