The depth of a quality club is slowly taking shape. Need a few more...Wouldn't mind signing Jagr for a year to influence the room. Didn't he have a bit of chemistry with JVR as well?
For some reason i see a perfect fit with JVR and Frattin on the same line. Both college players. Frattin has a nice truculent forecheck with a ripper of a shot. JVR is able to compliment and assist in the corners laying body here and there. Hes got good vision, good hands and good ability to find space. Kadri and Frattin had some great chemistry and i personally see him (kadri) as one of our future centers... Of course Colborne could displace Kadri in this situation to get us more size down the middle..
This is how I see it.
Lupul-XXXXX-Kessel (Obvious)
JVR-Grabovski-Kadri (P.F that likes to hit when needed protecting the 2 smaller, skilled players)
Kulemin-Bozak-Frattin (This line provides a good checking line for us and still can produce ~60 goals)
Brown-Steckel-Komarov (Agitator/Energy line. Provides grit and sandpaper)
If JVR works on the 1C spot, then Kulemin is moved up and someone like Penner is signed to the 3rd line. If no 1C is brought in, we have Bozak on 1st and someone like Gaustad/Moen is signed for a year to play 3C.
This is how I see it.
Lupul-XXXXX-Kessel (Obvious)
JVR-Grabovski-Kadri (P.F that likes to hit when needed protecting the 2 smaller, skilled players)
Kulemin-Bozak-Frattin (This line provdes a good checking line
JVR really isn't a power forward who likes to hit. If that's whta you envision you are going to be very dissappointed.
JVR is a big body, skilled guy who likes to go to the front of the net, but he's not the type to steamroll anyone. He can hold his own because of his size, but he's more of a skill/finesse player than a banger. He will stand infront and get tips/rebounds though which we desparately need.
He's also young, developing and coming into his own so he still has time to get a little meaner and bang some more body's but he certainly isn't a player that likes to hit and protect his linemates.
I wonder if anybody can find another team being bled almost 16M dollars by a more useless group of four.....Good Luck.
I don't know why you're lumping MacArthur in with them?
He's not an ideal player but he's scored 20+ goals the last 2 years and averaged around 50 points... he's not terrible defensively either and he's not adverse to some physical contact. Not a great player but you can spend $3.25M a lot worse. He's making around what we should be.
JVR really isn't a power forward who likes to hit. If that's whta you envision you are going to be very dissappointed.
JVR is a big body, skilled guy who likes to go to the front of the net, but he's not the type to steamroll anyone. He can hold his own because of his size, but he's more of a skill/finesse player than a banger. He will stand infront and get tips/rebounds though which we desparately need.
He's also young, developing and coming into his own so he still has time to get a little meaner and bang some more body's but he certainly isn't a player that likes to hit and protect his linemates.
Ya I cut it from " A P.F who will go to the corners and not back down and provide some truculence"
So after reading reports on Carylye's philosophy and how its all the more important after seeing how Los Angeles was able to grind teams. The lineup will be a big and grinding style team
I'm not saying that this line would be as good as the Williams/Kopitar/Brown line but wouldn't a line of Lupul/Van Riemsdyk/Frattin bring a similar look.
Obviously Van Riemsdyk played wing his entire NHL career but Burke said he has played centre in the past. He has the same build as Kopitar and is still young and has a great scoring and playmaking ability and Matt Frattin isn't as proven as Brown but he has shown he can be a strong powerforward who isn't the biggest build at 6'0 200 LBS. However he had 85 hits in 56 games. He might be able to bring a very similar style game.
If they can sign Parise he can play with Kessel on the 1st line and perhaps Burke will take a chance on Peter Mueller to play on 1st line. He's very skilled and would be a much better upgrade then Bozak if he's healthy.
Burke has screamed we need to get bigger and more nasty. Bringing in a guy like Steve Ott would certainly help them. Plus, he brings a lot of leadership. Also, George Parros needs to be on this team. I understand we got Rosehill and Orr in the minors but He's way more imposing then both and he'd make sure Millan Lucic knew he's coming for him if he took any liberties against Toronto.
Guys, MacArthur, Kulemin & Kadri can be dangled to get them better defense partner to play with Phaneuf, a 3rd line centre as well in a deal to acquire a number 1 goalie. OH, FYI just cause Grabo was resigned doesn't mean he's safe...Just ask JVR.
I see Armstrong getting another shot. He's great on the boards and can play a style that Carlyle likes. Out of LACK combo he gets a shot IMO
Parise (Mueller) Kessel
Lupul Van Riemsdyk Frattin
Ott ___________ Armstrong
Brown Zigomanis/Steckel (Parros)
Thoughts?
Last edited by Arik Kristal: 06-26-2012 at 10:58 AM.
I don't know why you're lumping MacArthur in with them?
He's not an ideal player but he's scored 20+ goals the last 2 years and averaged around 50 points... he's not terrible defensively either and he's not adverse to some physical contact. Not a great player but you can spend $3.25M a lot worse. He's making around what we should be.
They're more arguing on the fact that it could be used better (Better bang for buck and better need than lower 2nd line W) and that his spot could be filled with a better, younger guy like Frattin/Kadri.
I don't know why you're lumping MacArthur in with them?
He's not an ideal player but he's scored 20+ goals the last 2 years and averaged around 50 points... he's not terrible defensively either and he's not adverse to some physical contact. Not a great player but you can spend $3.25M a lot worse. He's making around what we should be.
I dont believe MacA is part of the Horrid 4 that we speak of....Its Lombardi, Komisarek, Connolly and Armstrong sucking up 16M.....
I don't even mind Timmy that much except he is too soft for my liking...and overpaid by about 1M, IMO. MacA I didn't mention. I wouldn't say he isn't worthy of his contract but I believe I would look to trade him just the same. Leafs need to get bigger and stronger on the top 6. Too many MacA type players, IMO...
There's a chance Bozak takes another step in his development and puts up more points. He was on pace for about 50 last year. Even if he got to 55 or so, that puts him in the top 25 centres in the league. Ideally you would have a real top centre to play with Kessel, but one isnt available, so what can you do?
The key to the forwards is what version of the guys do we get. Does the 10-11 Kulemin come back? Or is this past season's version the real guy? To a degree, same with MacArthur.
And then can Lupul come close to repeating what he did last year? Or does he go back to a 50 point pace? What about Kessel? Is he really someone who can do close to 40-40 every year? Or will he go back to a 60 point pace?
And then how does JVR impact things?
Bottom line is we were top 10 in goals last season, the forwards were not the problem. We added a goal scorer. So even as is, the forwards should be alright, unless everyone hits a wall.
Are forwards were a big problem last year. There offensive numbers look good but they are far to easy to play against. They aren't good defensively which includes getting knocked off the puck far too often (especially our wingers just inside our blueline) and can't maintain puck possession time in the other teams zone.
Take teams like LA, Boston, St. Louis, etc. and there forwards supporting the D on backchecks and there wingers almost never turning the puck over just inside our blueline and being able to eat up minutes through cycling is a big part of why they give up a lot less quality chances/less goals.
Acquiring JVR and a better season by Kulemin will go a long way in establishing as a team that is harder to play against because we'll be stronger on the puck. A healthy Armstrong would also help out a lot.
Toronto still need really needs a center upgrade. Not even a true superstar # 1. A low end # 1/top end # 2 guy like a Carter, Bergeron, Backes would be sufficient as they're tough as heck to play against, strong on the puck and great defensively. Having them playing 18-20 minutes would allow Bozak or Connolly to play the 15 or so minutes they should be playing (instead of the the 18 or so they're asked to at the moment).
Why do we not put our best center with our best wingers for a prolonged period of time? Lupul/Grabovski/Kessel is am experiment that had never really been given a shot.
This. People are gonna say Grabo and Kessel don't work together when I can probably post 7 or 8 YT videos of pretty goals they've set up for each other. Fact of the matter is, they haven't played together long enough to make a valid opinion on the matter.
It's hard to project lines right now since clearly the Leafs are done making moves (and particularly shipping players out).
However, if it were me putting together lines, I might try something a little bit different and go with this:
LW - C - RW
JVR - Kadri - Kessel
Mac - Grabo - Lupul
Kulemin - Bozak - Frattin
Komarov - Steckel - Brown
Armstrong
I know people think it's crazy to break up Kessel and Lupul, and they may be right, but I think what really helped Kessel break out was a) having a winger with a big body/willing to dig and b) playing with someone with above average skill. While Lupul did both those things, I'm sure JVR can do it too.
More importantly, the reason why the Kessel/Lupul combination were awful defensively is that a) Kessel is weak defensively and b) Lupul has trouble transitioning in his own zone because he's playing his off-wing. Playing the off-wing is great for scoring goals and one-timers but it's a hard position to play defensively. Ultimately, with this line-up you can plug Lupul in at his natural RW position.
Kuli-Bozak-Frattin line gives a high-energy physical line that can score goals while the Steckel line is a good shut-down line as well.
It's hard to project lines right now since clearly the Leafs are done making moves (and particularly shipping players out).
However, if it were me putting together lines, I might try something a little bit different and go with this:
LW - C - RW
JVR - Kadri - Kessel
Mac - Grabo - Lupul
Kulemin - Bozak - Frattin
Komarov - Steckel - Brown
Armstrong
I know people think it's crazy to break up Kessel and Lupul, and they may be right, but I think what really helped Kessel break out was a) having a winger with a big body/willing to dig and b) playing with someone with above average skill. While Lupul did both those things, I'm sure JVR can do it too.
More importantly, the reason why the Kessel/Lupul combination were awful defensively is that a) Kessel is weak defensively and b) Lupul has trouble transitioning in his own zone because he's playing his off-wing. Playing the off-wing is great for scoring goals and one-timers but it's a hard position to play defensively. Ultimately, with this line-up you can plug Lupul in at his natural RW position.
Kuli-Bozak-Frattin line gives a high-energy physical line that can score goals while the Steckel line is a good shut-down line as well.
The reason Lupul got so good was because he switched positions. He and Carlyle have both stated this. I think putting him back at RW would be counter productive for him. I don't mind breaking him off of Kessel but keep him at LW.
Why do we not put our best center with our best wingers for a prolonged period of time? Lupul/Grabovski/Kessel is am experiment that had never really been given a shot.
People keep asking this. A few possible reasons come to mind.
1. Both Kessel and Grabo like to carry the puck and are shoot first players.
2. Bozak is better at faceoffs improving the chances of Kessel getting the puck
3. Chemestry between Bozak and Kessel is pretty good
4. Spreading out the scoring
5. The second line was great together the year before last
Unfortunately I can see this being the opening night roster
Nah, no way I see Lombo playing (esp on the 4th line). I say Frattin has made the club, and Kadri is still a maybe depending on his off-season training and how training camp/pre-season goes.
Parros is definitely going to get signed to play on the 4th line - Burke and Carlyle want a tougher, meaner bottom 6 - Parros is the (part of the) epitome of that.
