HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > San Jose Sharks
Notices

NHL News/Notes part 10

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-25-2013, 07:43 PM
  #601
Kitten Mittons
Registered User
 
Kitten Mittons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Francisco
Country: Armenia
Posts: 47,520
vCash: 500
Murray and Clowe for Read. We'll keep some cap.

Kitten Mittons is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 07:46 PM
  #602
magic school bus
***********
 
magic school bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,685
vCash: 1965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
Murray and Clowe for Read. We'll keep some cap.
Terrible trade for us.

magic school bus is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 07:47 PM
  #603
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,325
vCash: 567
In all seriousness, Philly is desperate for a young PMD. Maybe we could do Demers+ for Voracek?

TheJuxtaposer is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 07:50 PM
  #604
Graveland
HONE YOUR CRAFT
 
Graveland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: United States
Posts: 11,276
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
In all seriousness, Philly is desperate for a young PMD. Maybe we could do Demers+ for Voracek?
Gross can't the Sharks give them "I could get manhandled by Gerbe Braun" instead?

Graveland is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 07:53 PM
  #605
magic school bus
***********
 
magic school bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,685
vCash: 1965
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
In all seriousness, Philly is desperate for a young PMD. Maybe we could do Demers+ for Voracek?
Let me get this straight: They traded Jeff Carter to get Voracek, so they could trade Voracek for Demers?

Outside of Burns, we don't have a defenseman worth Voracek.

magic school bus is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 07:58 PM
  #606
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,325
vCash: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Let me get this straight: They traded Jeff Carter to get Voracek, so they could trade Voracek for Demers?

Outside of Burns, we don't have a defenseman worth Voracek.
Well, I did say plus.

But he's been skating on the third line and hasn't been all that impressive, according to Flyers fans. I'm just saying, maybe not for Vora, but maybe Holmgren gets desperate, with the Mezsaros and Hartnell injuries. Maybe Demers/Clowe for Voracek. Only issue is I don't think we could handle Vora's contract.

TheJuxtaposer is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:12 PM
  #607
magic school bus
***********
 
magic school bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,685
vCash: 1965
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Well, I did say plus.

But he's been skating on the third line and hasn't been all that impressive, according to Flyers fans. I'm just saying, maybe not for Vora, but maybe Holmgren gets desperate, with the Mezsaros and Hartnell injuries. Maybe Demers/Clowe for Voracek. Only issue is I don't think we could handle Vora's contract.
The plus is Hertl, I'm assuming.

I'd like a Voracek-type player but the price would probably be too high. Philly has cap concerns as well so I'm not sure anything makes sense for them with pending UFA's going their way.

magic school bus is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:33 PM
  #608
Led Zappa
Oy vey...
 
Led Zappa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,772
vCash: 500
Hertl better not be going anywhere. We're gonna need some cheap talent in the coming years.

__________________

"This is not a nick or a scratch, this is an open wound" - Doug Wilson.
Led Zappa is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:41 PM
  #609
sjshark91
Registered User
 
sjshark91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country:
Posts: 23,622
vCash: 2810
Why make a trade now? The team is gelling quite well.

sjshark91 is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:45 PM
  #610
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,325
vCash: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
The plus is Hertl, I'm assuming.

I'd like a Voracek-type player but the price would probably be too high. Philly has cap concerns as well so I'm not sure anything makes sense for them with pending UFA's going their way.
No way. I think Hertl will be better than Voracek when all is said and done.

I also think you're overvaluing Vora. I really like him, but that contract did the Flyers no favors, and he seems to have reached a ceiling of around 50 points. He's not a great defensive player, he's not a great physical player, his shot is worse than Vlasic's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjshark91 View Post
Why make a trade now? The team is gelling quite well.
Unsustainable shooting percentages + small sample size. You're better than that. This team's got serious holes and they'll become apparent once Joe and Patty come back to earth.

TheJuxtaposer is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 09:10 PM
  #611
sjshark91
Registered User
 
sjshark91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country:
Posts: 23,622
vCash: 2810
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Unsustainable shooting percentages + small sample size. You're better than that. This team's got serious holes and they'll become apparent once Joe and Patty come back to earth.
Serious holes?

You can't fix serious holes with one player.

sjshark91 is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 09:17 PM
  #612
magic school bus
***********
 
magic school bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,685
vCash: 1965
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
No way. I think Hertl will be better than Voracek when all is said and done.

I also think you're overvaluing Vora. I really like him, but that contract did the Flyers no favors, and he seems to have reached a ceiling of around 50 points. He's not a great defensive player, he's not a great physical player, his shot is worse than Vlasic's.
I disagree about Voracek's upside. Voracek had 50 points in the NHL when he was 20 yrs old. Even though it feels like he's much older, he's still just 23 (but I can see where you're coming from since we have a similar young veteran in Vlasic.) It's reasonable to think he hasn't reaching his ceiling.

Demers + Hertl is the best offer we could make that makes some sense for both sides. There's no guarantee Philadelphia would accept or that SJ would even offer it - seems like a pretty good start towards a fair trade.

magic school bus is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 09:24 PM
  #613
Led Zappa
Oy vey...
 
Led Zappa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,772
vCash: 500
Let me rephrase. Hertl won't be going anywhere, unless he has some major downward swing in his development, until he's played in an NHL Sharks Jersey on San Jose ice

Led Zappa is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 09:33 PM
  #614
magic school bus
***********
 
magic school bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,685
vCash: 1965
I'd rather trade Braun anyways.

magic school bus is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 09:35 PM
  #615
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,325
vCash: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
I disagree about Voracek's upside. Voracek had 50 points in the NHL when he was 20 yrs old. Even though it feels like he's much older, he's still just 23 (but I can see where you're coming from since we have a similar young veteran in Vlasic.) It's reasonable to think he hasn't reaching his ceiling.

Demers + Hertl is the best offer we could make that makes some sense for both sides. There's no guarantee Philadelphia would accept or that SJ would even offer it - seems like a pretty good start towards a fair trade.
I know it's common to assume young players will always improve, but Voracek just doesn't seem to be one of them. He's a very nice player and an above average 2nd liner, but if he hits 60 (barring playing with Giroux) I'll be very shocked.

Sharks would be dumb to trade Hertl unless it's a Burns kind of deal (except a forward).

I'd also rather trade Braun than Demers, I just thought Philly might value Jason more.

TheJuxtaposer is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 09:53 PM
  #616
Mafoofoo
:facepalm:
 
Mafoofoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 12,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Let me rephrase. Hertl won't be going anywhere, unless he has some major downward swing in his development, until he's played in an NHL Sharks Jersey on San Jose ice
Or unless someone like Philly is dumb enough to offer Giroux.

Mafoofoo is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 10:00 PM
  #617
Led Zappa
Oy vey...
 
Led Zappa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
Or unless someone like Philly is dumb enough to offer Giroux.
OK, there is a chance in hell

But seriously, I don't believe even a Burns type deal would get him. Especially since Burns wasn't signed. It would take a JT type deal with a couple years at least left on the contract. It would also mean some money leaving, which means some players we love.

Led Zappa is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 10:05 PM
  #618
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,325
vCash: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
OK, there is a chance in hell

But seriously, I don't believe even a Burns type deal would get him. Especially since Burns wasn't signed. It would take a JT type deal with a couple years at least left on the contract. It would also mean some money leaving, which means some players we love.
I like Hertl more than I liked Coyle, and I really liked Coyle. So I suppose I agree. But Burns is a borderline #1D. If we could trade Wingels, Hertl, and our first for a 26 year old above average first-liner, I'd probably do it, of course depending on the player.

TheJuxtaposer is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 10:25 PM
  #619
Led Zappa
Oy vey...
 
Led Zappa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I like Hertl more than I liked Coyle, and I really liked Coyle. So I suppose I agree. But Burns is a borderline #1D. If we could trade Wingels, Hertl, and our first for a 26 year old above average first-liner, I'd probably do it, of course depending on the player.
It's not just a matter of who Hertl is, but we can't afford to not have a prospect make our top 6 within a couple years to get those cheap contract years, especially with the CAP coming down. The last one was Couture and while we might luck out with a Pav's or Clowe again, we can't count on that just like we can't count on Hertl. He's just our best shot at the moment.

I've been fine with the Big names for prospects up until this point, but it's time and we're in a position IMO to wait this one out.


Last edited by Led Zappa: 01-25-2013 at 10:35 PM.
Led Zappa is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 10:41 PM
  #620
NWShark*
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post

Unsustainable shooting percentages + small sample size. You're better than that. This team's got serious holes and they'll become apparent once Joe and Patty come back to earth.
This team does not have serious holes. Especially with adding Gomez then burns and demers. There are some questions that will have to be answered but other than that they have no "serious" holes. Can shep, wingles, tj, Zeus be effective, is clowe done as a top 6, wills burns come back hobbled, has noemi turned a corner in his development, can havlat stay healthy... Odds say that not all of those things can go bad. Possible but not likely. Many question marks but no real holes anymore.

NWShark* is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 10:54 PM
  #621
Mafoofoo
:facepalm:
 
Mafoofoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 12,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
There are some questions that will have to be answered but other than that they have no "serious" holes. Can shep, wingles, tj, Zeus be effective, is clowe done as a top 6, wills burns come back hobbled, has noemi turned a corner in his development, can havlat stay healthy... Odds say that not all of those things can go bad. Possible but not likely. Many question marks but no real holes anymore.
Well we hope TJ, Shep, Wingels, and Zeus be effective, Clowe is probably done as a good top 6er for us, Burns who knows if he'll come back Noemi is a huge bust but luckily his cousin Niemi looks pretty good, and Havlat hopefully can stay healthy this year.

That's my take.

Mafoofoo is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 11:01 PM
  #622
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 31,942
vCash: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Unsustainable shooting percentages + small sample size. You're better than that. This team's got serious holes and they'll become apparent once Joe and Patty come back to earth.
You're also better than this to call out serious holes after three games where they don't have Gomez, Burns, or Demers. Yes, their offensive production is unsustainable across the board but they're not completely getting lucky. They're pushing play more, are harder in front of the opposition's net, and are playing/competing better on the PK even though the kill percentage doesn't reflect that yet. A big part of their negatives in their play these three games is puck movement from the backend and a lot of that is missing Burns and Demers while having to go with Murray and Irwin in there. Irwin is a solid player for what he is right now but his puck movement is shaky right now and Murray's puck movement is garbage. Stuart has done well on the whole of it but has had his moments. I'm confident Stuart will improve in this regard as the season goes on though. Getting Burns and Demers back will make a huge difference in giving the Sharks sustainability in their overall play.

You can't expect the bottom six to be world beaters offensively either. They're not what our top six is and they don't have that familiarity. Desjardins, Wingels, and Handzus were the three that started last year that are here now. And those guys certainly didn't play with each other that much last year and not to the extent of the top six. Individually, they've each brought some form of contribution but they haven't gelled yet as lines and probably won't for a month maybe.

Pinkfloyd is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 11:04 PM
  #623
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,325
vCash: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
This team does not have serious holes. Especially with adding Gomez then burns and demers. There are some questions that will have to be answered but other than that they have no "serious" holes. Can shep, wingles, tj, Zeus be effective, is clowe done as a top 6, wills burns come back hobbled, has noemi turned a corner in his development, can havlat stay healthy... Odds say that not all of those things can go bad. Possible but not likely. Many question marks but no real holes anymore.
But what if Gomez doesn't do anything? What if Burns doesn't come back? What of Demers plays like last year, not like his 10-11 incarnation? What if Clowe keeps playing like a 4th liner? What if Havlat gets injured? Or worse, what if Thornton gets injured?

There are a ton of questions. We're one injury to Thornton/Marleau/Pavelski/Couture away from our offense becoming average.

@Pink: I don't expect the bottom-6 to be world beaters, but I do expect them to put up points, maintain possession, play strong defense, draw penalties, and most importantly, be good enough to earn the trust of the coaching staff so that they don't have to keep rolling out the Thornton line every other shift when times get hard.

TheJuxtaposer is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 11:08 PM
  #624
Mafoofoo
:facepalm:
 
Mafoofoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 12,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
But what if Gomez doesn't do anything? What if Burns doesn't come back? What of Demers plays like last year, not like his 10-11 incarnation? What if Clowe keeps playing like a 4th liner? What if Havlat gets injured? Or worse, what if Thornton gets injured?

There are a ton of questions. We're one injury to Thornton/Marleau/Pavelski/Couture away from our offense becoming average.

@Pink: I don't expect the bottom-6 to be world beaters, but I do expect them to put up points, maintain possession, play strong defense, draw penalties, and most importantly, be good enough to earn the trust of the coaching staff so that they don't have to keep rolling out the Thornton line every other shift when times get hard.
With the 1rst overall pick the San Jose Sharks select...

Mafoofoo is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 11:13 PM
  #625
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,131
vCash: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
With the 1rst overall pick the San Jose Sharks select...
Which it would be for most teams with losing there best player. Even detroit last season lost lidstrom for a handful of games and they didn't do that good. And this year early on they are struggling a lil bit.

Barrie22 is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:47 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.