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Vanek joined some elite Sabres company this season

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04-24-2012, 09:13 PM
  #1
gallagt01
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Vanek joined some elite Sabres company this season

We all have our opinions regarding what should be done with Vanek this offseason. Some think he should be moved (I fall into this category) and some think he should remain on the Sabres. Can we leave it at that for this thread, at least?

Vanek joined some elite company with his 26-goal campaign this past season.

On top of scoring 25+ goals in seven straight seasons, he passed Alex Mogilny, Don Luce, Rene Robert and Miro Satan for career goals as a Sabre.

Vanek sits at at 230. Assuming he finishes out his current contract in Buffalo (this thread is not to debate that), it's reasonable to believe that he'll pass Foligno (247) and Ramsay (252) next season to move into fifth all time amongst Sabres scorers. If he has a hot year next year, he could even slide into fourth by passing Gare (267).

If that were the case, he would trail just Andreychuk (368), Martin (382) and Gil (512).

Props to Thomas.

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04-24-2012, 09:30 PM
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He's pretty close to becoming one of those iconic franchise players. If he actually wins a Cup with the Sabres he'll reach a level of prestige that none of those players had ever achieved.

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04-24-2012, 10:07 PM
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Wouldn't 20ish other players fall into that category as well?

Vanek catches a lot of **** on this board for what we fans think he should be capable of.
A real center (Briere?) over the last few years likely would have made a difference. Hindsight...

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04-24-2012, 10:37 PM
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Congrats, hes a great talent and if he stays i dont see why he cant be the 2nd all time scorer and maybe even 1st if he stays his whole career

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04-24-2012, 10:39 PM
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If he spends his career here, I think he's a lock to be #2 in goal scoring eventually. We'll see about number 1. Maybe if he gets a top center or Hodgson develops into one.

Either way, he's probably going to get a spot in the Sabres Hall when all is said and done.

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04-25-2012, 03:38 AM
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When he scored 40 goals wasnt Derek Roy his center? Just saying.....

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04-25-2012, 05:41 AM
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Good for Vanek. I hope that if he does stay a sabre he keeps up the good work. Maybe even grab that number one spot. He's in very good company as it is.

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04-25-2012, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
When he scored 40 goals wasnt Derek Roy his center? Just saying.....
Irrelevant. That line was drawing bottom pairing matchups. Afinogenov had 50 assists that season on that line. I'm not ready to label Max as a top notch playmaker because of it.

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04-25-2012, 07:25 AM
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Irrelevant. That line was drawing bottom pairing matchups. Afinogenov had 50 assists that season on that line. I'm not ready to label Max as a top notch playmaker because of it.
I'm not disagreeing with you on this, but don't you think that teams would've at least started to match up the 2nd pairing d-men? I'm sure they faced 2nd pairings on more than a few occasions. Also, were they the 2nd PP unit?

A couple of reasons that line worked was because of the rules that EVERYONE else had to play under and the speed of that line.

Man was that team fast.

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04-25-2012, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
We all have our opinions regarding what should be done with Vanek this offseason. Some think he should be moved (I fall into this category) and some think he should remain on the Sabres. Can we leave it at that for this thread, at least?

Vanek joined some elite company with his 26-goal campaign this past season.

On top of scoring 25+ goals in seven straight seasons, he passed Alex Mogilny, Don Luce, Rene Robert and Miro Satan for career goals as a Sabre.

Vanek sits at at 230. Assuming he finishes out his current contract in Buffalo (this thread is not to debate that), it's reasonable to believe that he'll pass Foligno (247) and Ramsay (252) next season to move into fifth all time amongst Sabres scorers. If he has a hot year next year, he could even slide into fourth by passing Gare (267).

If that were the case, he would trail just Andreychuk (368), Martin (382) and Gil (512).

Props to Thomas.

He's also 4th in franchise history in PP Goals (96, 18 behind Gare) and GWG (39, 4 behind Foligno). 11th in overall points (9 behind Satan, 53 back of Gare, 64 behind Foligno).


Did anyone else know that Satan has more SH goals in team history than Peca!! (15 to 14).

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04-25-2012, 09:38 AM
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Irrelevant. That line was drawing bottom pairing matchups.
Not in 2008-09 it wasn't.

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04-25-2012, 11:15 AM
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Not in 2008-09 it wasn't.
hush, glittercat!

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04-25-2012, 11:24 PM
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Congrats, hes a great talent and if he stays i dont see why he cant be the 2nd all time scorer and maybe even 1st if he stays his whole career
He averages 33 goals a season. That would have him around 300 goals at the end of his current deal, which takes him to 30 years old. Barring a trade, TV is pretty much a lock to get hit 4th all-time.

I assume his next contract would be that long term "final contract of his career" type signing. If he does choose to resign with Buffalo, and it's a long term 5-6 year type contract and assuming he plays out the whole deal, he'll probably become the new 2nd.

For him to take over as the new number 1. He'll need to continue to play for Buffalo until 37-38 years old, always scoring 30 goals a season. Or he'll need to string together some 45-50 goal years to do that.

I don't doubt that TV will score 153 more goals in his career(2nd all time), the question will be will he do it here.

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04-27-2012, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Vito_81 View Post
He averages 33 goals a season. That would have him around 300 goals at the end of his current deal, which takes him to 30 years old. Barring a trade, TV is pretty much a lock to get hit 4th all-time.

I assume his next contract would be that long term "final contract of his career" type signing. If he does choose to resign with Buffalo, and it's a long term 5-6 year type contract and assuming he plays out the whole deal, he'll probably become the new 2nd.

For him to take over as the new number 1. He'll need to continue to play for Buffalo until 37-38 years old, always scoring 30 goals a season. Or he'll need to string together some 45-50 goal years to do that.

I don't doubt that TV will score 153 more goals in his career(2nd all time), the question will be will he do it here.
I think a lot of it depends on the changes that are made this offseason. I tend to believe that if the proverbial "culture change" talked about by many of us were to take place, and Vanek remains, it's possible that a new look to the squad may ignite his career once more.

The hopeful rise to prominence by Hodgson would help, too.

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04-27-2012, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
I think a lot of it depends on the changes that are made this offseason. I tend to believe that if the proverbial "culture change" talked about by many of us were to take place, and Vanek remains, it's possible that a new look to the squad may ignite his career once more.

The hopeful rise to prominence by Hodgson would help, too.
I've always been baffled by the sentiment many have that Vanek has somehow been stifled as a Sabre. Whether its by Ruff, Roy or the makeup of the team in general.

Do some posters still cling to the idea that he is a 50g 100pt player waiting to emerge under the right circumstances?

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04-27-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I've always been baffled by the sentiment many have that Vanek has somehow been stifled as a Sabre. Whether its by Ruff, Roy or the makeup of the team in general.

Do some posters still cling to the idea that he is a 50g 100pt player waiting to emerge under the right circumstances?
No, but then again 26, 28 and 32 goal seasons aren't all he's capable, either.

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04-27-2012, 01:44 PM
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No, but then again 26, 28 and 32 goal seasons aren't all he's capable, either.
What should he be doing then?

When Vanek had his two big goal scoring years (06-07 and 08-09) one of two things was at play. In 06-07 he was on a secondary scoring line which boosted his ES goal production leading to his 43g season. In 08-09 he led the NHL in PP goals (20g on the PP) leading to his 40g in 73gms (a 45g pace).


Last edited by joshjull: 04-27-2012 at 01:49 PM.
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04-27-2012, 01:52 PM
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What should he be doing then?

When Vanek had his two big goal scoring years (06-07 and 08-09) one of two things was at play. In 06-07 he was on a secondary scoring line which boosted his ES goal production leading to his 43g season. In 08-09 he led the NHL in PP goals (20g on the PP) leading to his 40g in 73gms (a 45g pace).
So you don't think his game has any room for improvement right now?

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04-27-2012, 01:58 PM
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gallagt01
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
What should he be doing then?

When Vanek had his two big goal scoring years (06-07 and 08-09) one of two things was at play. In 06-07 he was on a secondary scoring line which boosted his ES goal production leading to his 43g season. In 08-09 he led the NHL in PP goals (20g on the PP) leading to his 40g in 73gms (a 45g pace).
That doesn't mean he's not capable of scoring more than 26 goals as a Sabre. I don't think his career has been stifled because he's in Buffalo, but he can be a 35+ goal scorer.

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04-27-2012, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
What should he be doing then?

When Vanek had his two big goal scoring years (06-07 and 08-09) one of two things was at play. In 06-07 he was on a secondary scoring line which boosted his ES goal production leading to his 43g season. In 08-09 he led the NHL in PP goals (20g on the PP) leading to his 40g in 73gms (a 45g pace).
If he could play for a whole year at 100% he should have no trouble hitting 40 again.

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04-27-2012, 02:10 PM
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So you don't think his game has any room for improvement right now?
Improve? As in develop more as a player? no. Improve, as in put up better numbers? Yes

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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
That doesn't mean he's not capable of scoring more than 26 goals as a Sabre. I don't think his career has been stifled because he's in Buffalo, but he can be a 35+ goal scorer.
I must have missed where I said he can't score more than 26 goals as a Sabre. I also agree he can put up 35+goals again.

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04-27-2012, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Improve? As in develop more as a player? no. Improve, as in put up better numbers? Yes



I must have missed where I said he can't score more than 26 goals as a Sabre. I also agree he can put up 35+goals again.
Which is what the original poster you quoted was probably hoping would happen to Vanek if there was some kind of shakeup, so I'm not sure what the argument is. Most of his struggles have been his own fault, but injecting some new blood might still help him get back to putting up better numbers.

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04-27-2012, 02:19 PM
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If he could play for a whole year at 100% he should have no trouble hitting 40 again.
Why the qualifier of playing an entire season at 100%? Something highly unlikely to happen.

He only played in 73gms in his last 40 goal season (08-09). Last year he played in 80gms and had 32 goals. One could rightly argue he was healthier last year than the year he had 40g in 73gms.

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04-27-2012, 02:28 PM
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gallagt01
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Improve? As in develop more as a player? no. Improve, as in put up better numbers? Yes



I must have missed where I said he can't score more than 26 goals as a Sabre. I also agree he can put up 35+goals again.
I really don't understand your argument here. We both believe Vanek can score more than 26 goals in a season and put up 35+ again, no? Adding new talent to the team as part of a shakeup is just one way I could see him doing so.

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04-27-2012, 02:40 PM
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joshjull
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Which is what the original poster you quoted was probably hoping would happen to Vanek if there was some kind of shakeup, so I'm not sure what the argument is. Most of his struggles have been his own fault, but injecting some new blood might still help him get back to putting up better numbers.
The poster I quoted said getting some new blood in here may re-ignite Vanek's career. Maybe I'm wrong but I interpreted his desire for Vanek's game to re-ignite as meaning he wanted to see him back to his 40g scoring days. Maybe even putting up the numbers he did in 06-07. Basically he wants to see Vanek back to being a 40g 80pt player. The last 3 years he has been a 30+g 60+pt scoring winger. IMO saying his career needs re-igniting goes beyond hoping he produces more but still stays within the definition of a 30+g 60+pt winger.

Loods correct me if I misread your intent


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