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Sam Gagner's new deal/offer sheet target?

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Old
06-26-2012, 02:15 PM
  #51
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
Wow that's not very nice to look at at all.

I don't care about Gagner's height. My issue is he gets knocked around like crazy. If he was stronger or more stable. Whatever you call it he could be effective defensively. I'll take that with his 50 points a year.
My biggest problem is I look at that list and who there is doing much better than him? We need the immediate impact.

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Old
06-26-2012, 02:19 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Great One View Post
People keep referring to this, and I'm not picking on you personally because I know you just hinted at the notion, but too many fans on here want Gagner shipped for some defensive help. I really don't understand people's reasoning behind this move. Do you guys not realize that if we deal Gagner for a dman then that leaves us with a deep hole to fill in the #2 center spot. I know Gagner hasn't lived up to his potential thus far but if we ship him out who are we going to replace him with? Sure if Horcoff can get his game back to where it was in his prime he'd be a good candidate but I just don't see that happening. Lander is not quite ready to step into that role yet and other than Jokinen, there's no decent UFA's available on the market. So unless we can package Gagner for a decent center with some size I think the best option would be to sign him for at least one more year at around 3M per and take it from there.
The hole isn't as big as the hole on defense. One thing that makes the #2 center job a little easier to fill is the wingers we have. You don't need a high end #2 with them. With that being said you need to fill a hole if you are creating one by moving Gagner.

At some point something has to give. Maybe we get Schultz and Martin and keep Gagner. I don't know.

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06-26-2012, 02:24 PM
  #53
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I say we just trade him for a 1st round pick and maybe a conditional 4th or 5th. Condition being we get the pick if he signs with the team we trade him to.
Maybe Anaheim, they need a 2nd line center. Cogliano can move to the wing and play with him once again. A solid 2nd line in Cogliano, Gagner, and Selanee.

Then we can move Horcoff up and sign a big center like Paul Gaustad or Jason Arnott.
Horcoff is so underrated. He only finished with 13 less points than Gagner. If you give him 2nd line ice time and put him with some good wingers like Hemsky and Yakupov, he should be able to get at least what Gagner got and have a good bounce back year. Plus Horcoff is more responsible defensively.

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06-26-2012, 02:28 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
The hole isn't as big as the hole on defense. One thing that makes the #2 center job a little easier to fill is the wingers we have. You don't need a high end #2 with them. With that being said you need to fill a hole if you are creating one by moving Gagner.

At some point something has to give. Maybe we get Schultz and Martin and keep Gagner. I don't know.

I thought about this after I posted my comment and you are correct, the wingers do make it easier to deal the center for sure. But what also crossed my mind is that I'm really not sure Gagner has enough value to get the top tier dman that we desperately need in return. Maybe if we packaged next year's 1st could work but I guess that depends on the other GM. And like you said, we'd still have to find a replacement for Gagner if we do move him. Either way I believe it's gonna be an interesting offseason.

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06-26-2012, 02:35 PM
  #55
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I'd offer him one year at 3-3.5 mill and then see if he gels with hall/yakupov and then talk long term deal.

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06-26-2012, 02:35 PM
  #56
joestevens29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Great One View Post
I thought about this after I posted my comment and you are correct, the wingers do make it easier to deal the center for sure. But what also crossed my mind is that I'm really not sure Gagner has enough value to get the top tier dman that we desperately need in return. Maybe if we packaged next year's 1st could work but I guess that depends on the other GM. And like you said, we'd still have to find a replacement for Gagner if we do move him. Either way I believe it's gonna be an interesting offseason.
It's pretty much this. You get Martin for say Eager and then you sign Schultz then you probably aren't moving Gagner. But you lose out on a few d-men and all of a sudden you need to package Gagner+ and get something.

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Old
06-26-2012, 04:23 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SilverHaireDevil View Post
Just because a team tenders an offer sheet to a player does not mean that the Oilers have to match that sheet, the player in question actually has to sign it.

Can the offer sheet be referred to in contract negotiations as a possible value for a contract? of course it could, there are many factors that Sam would have to consider.

Here is one you should consider, take a look at the list of players that have signed an offer sheet in the last 15 or so years (feel free to google this yourself) and what they signed for. (Monster overpayment usually)

Here is a link to what the team gave up for Penner through the compensation of draft picks.

Trading him has netted us some nice prospects but no Full time NHL players yet.

http://oilacumen.blogspot.ca/2011/10...icks-from.html

Justin Schultz was selected by the Ducks with the Oilers' second round pick, and has been a fast riser in that organization. He finished last season with 18-29-47 in just 41 games for the University of Wisconsin after posting 6-16-22 as a freshman. Schultz is not a large defenseman at 6'1" and 185 pounds, but he has the offensive tools to make up for it. He's a powerplay whiz, who has started this season with 5 assists in 4 games for the Badgers. Schultz was ranked as Anaheim's third-best prospect in the 2011 Future Watch, and the 59th-best overall prospect outside the NHL.

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Old
06-26-2012, 04:59 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
yep and then package that first with our first and scoop up someone beastly to play C. with 2 firsts we could trade for someone that would fit with our core and probably a decent dman as well.
gagner's 18-22 start to his career is 21st best for the modern era.
Right there with Joe thorton #18, Lecavalier #19
Ahead of Marleau #22 and Jordon Staal #23.

good to know you do not think
Lecavalier
marleau
j. staal

are beastly talent

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Old
06-26-2012, 05:02 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
gagner's 18-22 start to his career is 21st best for the modern era.
Right there with Joe thorton #18, Lecavalier #19
Ahead of Marleau #22 and Jordon Staal #23.

good to know you do not think
Lecavalier
marleau
j. staal

are beastly talent
Aren't you going to remind us that Horcoff is better than Mike Richards?

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Old
06-26-2012, 05:14 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BoredMan View Post
Aren't you going to remind us that Horcoff is better than Mike Richards?
It's an accepted fact already.

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06-26-2012, 05:34 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
When can teams starting sending a offer sheet?
July 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Great One View Post
People keep referring to this, and I'm not picking on you personally because I know you just hinted at the notion, but too many fans on here want Gagner shipped for some defensive help. I really don't understand people's reasoning behind this move. Do you guys not realize that if we deal Gagner for a dman then that leaves us with a deep hole to fill in the #2 center spot. I know Gagner hasn't lived up to his potential thus far but if we ship him out who are we going to replace him with? Sure if Horcoff can get his game back to where it was in his prime he'd be a good candidate but I just don't see that happening. Lander is not quite ready to step into that role yet and other than Jokinen, there's no decent UFA's available on the market. So unless we can package Gagner for a decent center with some size I think the best option would be to sign him for at least one more year at around 3M per and take it from there.
Well a chunk of us like Hall at center.

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Old
06-26-2012, 05:37 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by ThatOilersKid View Post
I say we just trade him for a 1st round pick and maybe a conditional 4th or 5th. Condition being we get the pick if he signs with the team we trade him to.
Maybe Anaheim, they need a 2nd line center. Cogliano can move to the wing and play with him once again. A solid 2nd line in Cogliano, Gagner, and Selanee.

Then we can move Horcoff up and sign a big center like Paul Gaustad or Jason Arnott.
Horcoff is so underrated. He only finished with 13 less points than Gagner. If you give him 2nd line ice time and put him with some good wingers like Hemsky and Yakupov, he should be able to get at least what Gagner got and have a good bounce back year. Plus Horcoff is more responsible defensively.
Horcoff had 1st unit PP time at almost 3 minutes a game compared to Gagner's almost 2.5 minutes.
Horcoff should be on the checking line and eating up those short handed minutes. His offense is gone.
Maybe this year we wont have Gagner start on the 3rd line as Belangers RW

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06-26-2012, 06:56 PM
  #63
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If any team does offer Sam Gagner an offer sheet that the Oilers will not match I hope its the Columbus Blue Jackets.

Imagaine getting that 1st pick. CBJ is still considered to be a lottery team so it might work out in favour of the Oilers. Play balls out and hopefully still have a real shot at Seth Jones.

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Old
06-26-2012, 06:58 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverHaireDevil View Post
Next years Draft is supposed to be very deep, it would be hysterical if a pick from that offer sheet turned into a lottery pick.
Deep in the later rounds, but not as much high end talent in the earlier rounds.

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06-26-2012, 07:02 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by BoredMan View Post
Aren't you going to remind us that Horcoff is better than Mike Richards?
and that has what to do with his gagner point?

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Old
06-26-2012, 07:08 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
What happens though if we let him walk from a offer sheet and we can't get anyone to sign here to replace him?



Hemsky-Hopkins-Eberle
Hall-Horcoff-Yakupov
Jones-Belanger-Petrell
Eager-Lander-Hordichuk
Our most pressing need out of the draft before this team takes off to far. A number 2 center..

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06-26-2012, 08:58 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Game 8 View Post
Our most pressing need out of the draft before this team takes off to far. A number 2 center..
Amen, unless we can get a #1D.

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06-26-2012, 09:08 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Game 8 View Post
Our most pressing need out of the draft before this team takes off to far. A number 2 center..


Not unless Seth Jones is there.

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06-26-2012, 09:11 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Not unless Seth Jones is there.
Yeah...unless there's an elite #1 big D like Seth Jones available, I would go with a Centre.

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06-26-2012, 09:32 PM
  #70
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Yeah I'm still not comfortable with giving up on Gagner. Oilerbear is right in saying that not too many guys show what Gagner has from 18-22. I just can't get over the feeling that Gagner at 25 is going to be a hell of a player. The Oilers aren't winning the Cup this year, I wanna see what Gagner can do with the other hotshot kids on the team for at least half a season.

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06-26-2012, 10:03 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
2007 10-20
B.Sutter
A.Esposito

2008
Hodgson
Boychuk
Colborne

2009
Holland
Leblanc
Kreider
Josefson

2010
Hishon
Watson

2011
Miller
McNeil


All the centers taken 10-20 starting from the year Gagner was picked to now.
A number of them could very well be better than Gagner is or at least fit better on this team.

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06-26-2012, 10:08 PM
  #72
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Amen, unless we can get a #1D.
We will take what we can get, hahahahahaha. Is it possible to engineer another high pick?

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06-26-2012, 10:10 PM
  #73
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We will take what we can get, hahahahahaha. Is it possible to engineer another high pick?
8-12 is what my guess is as far as where we'll pick in 2013 unless we make some big upgrades on D.

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Old
06-26-2012, 10:15 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
A number of them could very well be better than Gagner is or at least fit better on this team.
Like who? Kreider is the only name on that list I'd trade Gagner for. None of the others are upgrades, and the few who could turn out to be are likely ~3 years away.

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Old
06-26-2012, 10:18 PM
  #75
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They said the exact same thing this time last year about this year's draft, and the same thing the year before that. True story.
Yeah, it does seem like we hear that every year. Come December of this year, they'll be like the 2013 draft is a weak draft after the top 2.

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