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C Mikhail Grigorenko - Quebec Remparts, QMJHL (2012 draft) III

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10-11-2012, 08:25 AM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Uh no. Sundin was a cheap wuss who would punch players after the whistle, aka every game against the Sabres. I was pleased he never won a cup he was a grade A scum.

As for Grigs, he is dominating the CHL... It's nice to have a franchise center prospect in the system.

Oh yeah against the Sabres he made an exception...

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10-11-2012, 09:24 AM
  #302
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Why do people care so much where the Leafs have grigs ranked? Their drafting has been mediocre at best. Where Burke had him ranked has no indication of how succesful he will be at the NHL level. Which seems to be why everyone is argueing so much about it.

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10-11-2012, 09:55 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
Why do people care so much where the Leafs have grigs ranked? Their drafting has been mediocre at best. Where Burke had him ranked has no indication of how succesful he will be at the NHL level. Which seems to be why everyone is argueing so much about it.
So true. Toronto is just about the last organization in the league who's opinion on draft position i would trust. Leafs fans should care much more about where Regier had Reilly ranked.

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10-11-2012, 10:03 AM
  #304
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Not going to lie, if I was a Leafs' fan I definitely would have preferred Grigorenko over Rielly. You just don't go over a potential number 1 centre, especially if you're lacking prospects at the centre position..

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10-11-2012, 10:53 AM
  #305
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So true. Toronto is just about the last organization in the league who's opinion on draft position i would trust. Leafs fans should care much more about where Regier had Reilly ranked.
haha so true, Devine has done a pretty good job at drafting, they use to go for the "safe" picks, now that Pegula has taken over they can go for more risk reward picks like Armia and Grigorenko.. Interesting how it turns out.

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10-11-2012, 03:03 PM
  #306
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haha so true, Devine has done a pretty good job at drafting, they use to go for the "safe" picks, now that Pegula has taken over they can go for more risk reward picks like Armia and Grigorenko.. Interesting how it turns out.
We actually started drifting away from the safe picks before Pegula took over. Myers and Ennis were both risky picks. Which was a year prior to Pegula taking over. What a great draft that turned out to be for use. (Myers, ennis, mcnabb, and tropp)

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10-11-2012, 04:00 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Uh no. Sundin was a cheap wuss who would punch players after the whistle, aka every game against the Sabres. I was pleased he never won a cup he was a grade A scum.

As for Grigs, he is dominating the CHL... It's nice to have a franchise center prospect in the system.
First, he is dominating the "Q", easily the weakest league of the 3 this year.. Second, he is playing in a pretty stacked team, the Remps basically have no weakness, they are something to watch and usually outscore badly their opponents.. Offense comes from everywhere, so this is not only a one man show.. Personally I was expecting that kind of numbers from Grigo, he still is a pure offensive talent that needs to be polished but how to not like his potential, the kid has so many tools its incredible.. His reach, stickhandling skills, elite vision, smooth effortless strides, pretty fluid skater while not the fastest.. His shot still needs improvement but I think once he gets stronger he will use it more.. Grigs is a very cerebral type of player that should get alot of points in the NHL but Im not sure he will be the type of player you win championships with.. While his work ethic still can improve, I think he will never be known for his grit, compete level, 2 way game and defensive duties.. Its easier to shine when you are playing for a stacked junior team like the Remps, but lets see how he will react facing some real adversity at the next level..

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10-11-2012, 04:07 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
First, he is dominating the "Q", easily the weakest league of the 3 this year.. Second, he is playing in a pretty stacked team, the Remps basically have no weakness, they are something to watch and usually outscore badly their opponents.. Offense comes from everywhere, so this is not only a one man show.. Personally I was expecting that kind of numbers from Grigo, he still is a pure offensive talent that needs to be polished but how to not like his potential, the kid has so many tools its incredible.. His reach, stickhandling skills, elite vision, smooth effortless strides, pretty fluid skater while not the fastest.. His shot still needs improvement but I think once he gets stronger he will use it more.. Grigs is a very cerebral type of player that should get alot of points in the NHL but Im not sure he will be the type of player you win championships with.. While his work ethic still can improve, I think he will never be known for his grit, compete level, 2 way game and defensive duties.. Its easier to shine when you are playing for a stacked junior team like the Remps, but lets see how he will react facing some real adversity at the next level..
So he should be dominating the Q which he is but he still won't amount to anything right?

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10-11-2012, 04:18 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
First, he is dominating the "Q", easily the weakest league of the 3 this year.. Second, he is playing in a pretty stacked team, the Remps basically have no weakness, they are something to watch and usually outscore badly their opponents.. Offense comes from everywhere, so this is not only a one man show.. Personally I was expecting that kind of numbers from Grigo, he still is a pure offensive talent that needs to be polished but how to not like his potential, the kid has so many tools its incredible.. His reach, stickhandling skills, elite vision, smooth effortless strides, pretty fluid skater while not the fastest.. His shot still needs improvement but I think once he gets stronger he will use it more.. Grigs is a very cerebral type of player that should get alot of points in the NHL but Im not sure he will be the type of player you win championships with.. While his work ethic still can improve, I think he will never be known for his grit, compete level, 2 way game and defensive duties.. Its easier to shine when you are playing for a stacked junior team like the Remps, but lets see how he will react facing some real adversity at the next level..
He was not drafted to fill this role, he was drafted to score and be a play-maker...that is all. We drafted Girgensons at the 14th pick to play top minutes against the opponents top players. There are a ton of examples in the NHL of amazingly skilled players that play sheltered minutes and help the team succeed. One of many examples, just look at the Sedins, what is it 90% offensive zone starts? Personally I believe he will turn into a Joe Thornton type of player if he plays to his potential. He has the body shape and height of Malkin, but does not have the explosiveness of him. Maybe he could develop that in time, but I doubt it.

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10-11-2012, 04:27 PM
  #310
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So he should be dominating the Q which he is but he still won't amount to anything right?
I said I thought he will get alot of pts in the NHL, but I also expect his weakness to stand out way more at the next levels.. He is all finess and will have to learn how to work in the dirties areas, learn to pay the price to make a play, learn to not make costly turnovers.. While he might score 90 pts one day in the NHL, I doubt his +\- ratio will ever be very good.. What mean he will be scored against alot at even strength.. A bit like Spezza with the Sens..

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10-11-2012, 04:40 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
I said I thought he will get alot of pts in the NHL, but I also expect his weakness to stand out way more at the next levels.. He is all finess and will have to learn how to work in the dirties areas, learn to pay the price to make a play, learn to not make costly turnovers.. While he might score 90 pts one day in the NHL, I doubt his +\- ratio will ever be very good.. What mean he will be scored against alot at even strength.. A bit like Spezza with the Sens..
Spezza is a career +77

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10-11-2012, 04:43 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
He was not drafted to fill this role, he was drafted to score and be a play-maker...that is all. We drafted Girgensons at the 14th pick to play top minutes against the opponents top players. There are a ton of examples in the NHL of amazingly skilled players that play sheltered minutes and help the team succeed. One of many examples, just look at the Sedins, what is it 90% offensive zone starts? Personally I believe he will turn into a Joe Thornton type of player if he plays to his potential. He has the body shape and height of Malkin, but does not have the explosiveness of him. Maybe he could develop that in time, but I doubt it.
Doesnt have the drive of Malkin either.. He is more of a cerebral, perimeter type of player..

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10-11-2012, 04:55 PM
  #313
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Spezza is a career +77
How many times did you see Spezza turn the puck over, make soft plays and not showing up when it gets tougher? Plenty.. I think he just had his best season ever last year with Maclean behind the bench, but Spezza will always remains a wild horse very tough to handle for any coach.. Good luck to Maclean for his second season coaching him..

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10-11-2012, 05:03 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
First, he is dominating the "Q", easily the weakest league of the 3 this year.. Second, he is playing in a pretty stacked team, the Remps basically have no weakness, they are something to watch and usually outscore badly their opponents.. Offense comes from everywhere, so this is not only a one man show.. Personally I was expecting that kind of numbers from Grigo, he still is a pure offensive talent that needs to be polished but how to not like his potential, the kid has so many tools its incredible.. His reach, stickhandling skills, elite vision, smooth effortless strides, pretty fluid skater while not the fastest.. His shot still needs improvement but I think once he gets stronger he will use it more.. Grigs is a very cerebral type of player that should get alot of points in the NHL but Im not sure he will be the type of player you win championships with.. While his work ethic still can improve, I think he will never be known for his grit, compete level, 2 way game and defensive duties.. Its easier to shine when you are playing for a stacked junior team like the Remps, but lets see how he will react facing some real adversity at the next level..
So sick of this argument. Would anyone think that team was stacked if Etchegary was their 1C and the guy QB'ing their top PP unit? I highly doubt it. They have some nice wingers for sure, but Grigs is easily star of that team, and he's playing like it. Not to mention they have plenty of question marks elsewhere on the roster too (namely on D), or at least that's what everyone said coming into the season, though so far they've been ok.

Grigorenko will never be a grit player, you're right. He wasn't drafted with the hopes that he could someday become an effective 3rd checker though, so that's fine. He's expected to be a playmaker and a scorer, and so far he's doing that better than anyone else in the Q this year, including Canadian golden boy Jonathan Huberdeau. His two-way game also has improved dramatically since when he first came over from Russia and is starting to border on criminally underrated. Not that he's necessarily great, but he actually does backcheck and is very smart positionally.

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10-11-2012, 05:06 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
How many times did you see Spezza turn the puck over, make soft plays and not showing up when it gets tougher? Plenty.. I think he just had his best season ever last year with Maclean behind the bench, but Spezza will always remains a wild horse very tough to handle for any coach.. Good luck to Maclean for his second season coaching him..
Huh? Spezza is over a PPG player in his career in the regular season and just 2 points shy of PPG career in the playoffs. Might not be the best example if you're trying to claim inconsistency.

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10-11-2012, 05:09 PM
  #316
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If Grigs turns into a Spezza type player when would I ever be made, If he can come anywhere near Spezzas ability I will be happy. Spezza is easily top 10 maybe 5 center in the league.

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10-11-2012, 06:37 PM
  #317
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If Grigs turns into a Spezza type player when would I ever be made, If he can come anywhere near Spezzas ability I will be happy.
Spezza is easily top 10 maybe 5 center in the league.
Not a freaking chance! The guy is way too flawed all around..

I can name you easily 10 centers I would take over him without any hesitation and probably 5 others that are pretty debatable .. Malkin Crosby Datsyuk Giroux Stamkos H.Sedin Kopitar Zetterberg B.Richards J.Towes.. Then you have guys like Benn, Tavares, Thorton, Getzlaf, Backstrom..

Still, Spezza's prob isnt his skills level, thats his lack of dedication, compete level and tendendy to play a high risk game turning the puck over numerous times.. Personally I would rather have a bit less skills but more heart and more reliability on my team.. I would trade Spezza for Jamie Benn or Ryan Kesler without much hesitation..

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10-11-2012, 06:56 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Not a freaking chance! The guy is way too flawed all around..

I can name you easily 10 centers I would take over him without any hesitation and probably 5 others that are pretty debatable .. Malkin Crosby Datsyuk Giroux Stamkos H.Sedin Kopitar Zetterberg B.Richards J.Towes.. Then you have guys like Benn, Tavares, Thorton, Getzlaf, Backstrom..

Still, Spezza's prob isnt his skills level, thats his lack of dedication, compete level and tendendy to play a high risk game turning the puck over numerous times.. Personally I would rather have a bit less skills but more heart and more reliability on my team.. I would trade Spezza for Jamie Benn or Ryan Kesler without much hesitation..
Your stuck in the past. Spezza has massively evolved his all around game. Out on the ice defending a 1 goal lead with under a minute to play. The bolded may have been true in the past, its not true anymore.

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10-11-2012, 08:04 PM
  #319
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Glad he's off to such a great start. I felt bad for him during the draft...b/c I thought the criticism of him (not to mention the side show over his age) seemed unwarranted. I'm really looking forward to watching him continue to develop - I think he'll be a great player and Buffalo is lucky to have him.

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10-11-2012, 08:08 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Personally I would rather have a bit less skills but more heart and more reliability on my team.. I would trade Spezza for Jamie Benn or Ryan Kesler without much hesitation..
The Sabres also drafted Girgs. He's exactly the type of player you're talking about. So they have a heart and soul player and a very skilled player.

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10-11-2012, 10:38 PM
  #321
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So true. Toronto is just about the last organization in the league who's opinion on draft position i would trust. Leafs fans should care much more about where Regier had Reilly ranked.
Should we also not care about Anaheim's, Minnesota's, Pittsburgh's, Winnipeg's, Tampa's and Washington's opinion?

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10-11-2012, 10:50 PM
  #322
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The Sabres also drafted Girgs. He's exactly the type of player you're talking about. So they have a heart and soul player and a very skilled player.
Yep the Sabres draft well and you will have a very good team in a few years, Im only saying Grigorenko dominating the "Q" on the scoresheet isnt a huge deal to me.. He is a very skilled player with alot to like no doubt but he still has alot to work on too..

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10-11-2012, 11:35 PM
  #323
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Grigorenko has Almost double the points Alex Galchenyuk has in just one more game. Just sayin'

(and yes the first inevitable response is how the Q is weak and Grigs isnt that impressive and that he's actually 21)

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10-11-2012, 11:36 PM
  #324
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Yep the Sabres draft well and you will have a very good team in a few years, Im only saying Grigorenko dominating the "Q" on the scoresheet isnt a huge deal to me.. He is a very skilled player with alot to like no doubt but he still has alot to work on too..
He's a prospect. I agree he has a ton to proove. The potential is enticing, though

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10-11-2012, 11:46 PM
  #325
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Not a freaking chance! The guy is way too flawed all around..

I can name you easily 10 centers I would take over him without any hesitation and probably 5 others that are pretty debatable .. Malkin, Crosby, Datsyuk, Giroux, Stamkos, H.Sedin, Kopitar, Zetterberg, J.Toews.. Then you have guys like Benn, Tavares, Thorton, Getzlaf, Backstrom..

Still, Spezza's prob isnt his skills level, thats his lack of dedication, compete level and tendendy to play a high risk game turning the puck over numerous times.. Personally I would rather have a bit less skills but more heart and more reliability on my team.. I would trade Spezza for Jamie Benn or Ryan Kesler without much hesitation..
Spezza has improved his two-way game though... But I'd still take the bolded any day over Spez. B Richards and him are close for me.

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