That's his best case, given that he'd have to get in as a builder rather than a coach.
Unfortunately, the only way a coach can get in is as a builder. Just like a GM. This is why only the truly dominant coaches get in like Bowman, Arbour and Sather to name a few. If you have a dynasty then it is safe to say you were a "builder" and a big difference maker on a team and in the NHL. You would think Ken Holland will get in as a builder eventually for example.
This is why the support for Pat Burns makes me wonder a bit. I don't think people actually know the reasons a coach needs to get in, and Burns doesn't have them. He is easily behind Quinn and Keenan when it comes to success and overall impact. The other two led Canada to victory at the top level twice. Keenan won a Cup, was in a few other finals, Quinn was in the finals twice losing two close series and was in the mix a lot with the postseason. Both coaches were around longer than Burns.
As it stands now, Ron Wilson probably has a better case than Burns if that tells you something.
But back to Fred Shero. He isn't in because the Broad Street Bullies were not always liked by the mainstream NHL. We know Clarence Campbell hated them. But the committee should stop using their bias against him. He revolutionized the game and was a winner while he did it. It is true, the Habs came along and put an end to it, but there was a while when the Flyers were the toast of the NHL and their style was very successful. People hated the Flyers, and to me that screams........."impact".
Think if the Ducks in 2007 had won more than one Cup and were the best team in the NHL for three or so years. Then think of them being much more intimidating and with a better goalie. That's the Flyers right there.
I despise the Broad street bullies and almost everything for which they stood. They were a dark stain on the fabric of hockey. However, Shero belongs in both for his innovations and his record.
I despise the Broad street bullies and almost everything for which they stood. They were a dark stain on the fabric of hockey. However, Shero belongs in both for his innovations and his record.
Maybe you can elaborate on the "Saints We Ain't" slogan under the pic of Julien. I'd bet you aren't promoting the hockey manners of the 1972 Swedish National team.
Maybe you can elaborate on the "Saints We Ain't" slogan under the pic of Julien. I'd bet you aren't promoting the hockey manners of the 1972 Swedish National team.
No I am not promoting the myth of clean hockey. No life-long Bruins fan could ever promote that. However, the way the Flyers used and abused the system is what bothers me. You can actuallly say they were an off shoot of the Bruins style as they had so many ex-Bruins. However there is a difference between playing rough and intimidating hockey and making a mockery of how many penalties one can call in a shift and during a game. Ps, It was great when the Bruins beat the poor man's version of the Broad street bullies easily in the mid 70 because they were both more skilled...and tougher. It was a year or two before my time but it was a low point for the Bruins and the league in1974 and moreso in 1975. So to be fair I dont have much memory of the "vintage" broad street bullies but their reputation was a detriment to them for at least 25 years. I supposes that is punishment enough.
Last edited by cursednumber6: 06-27-2012 at 10:47 PM.
I despise the Broad street bullies and almost everything for which they stood. They were a dark stain on the fabric of hockey. However, Shero belongs in both for his innovations and his record.
... I agree. Freddy introduced the short shift, video replay coaching, won, beat the Sam Hill out of the Old & Stodgy NHL. An interesting & peculiar mind that for 110% certain should be enshrined as a "Builder". Hockey would not exist in the City of Brotherly Love without that guy, and no way no how am I for one happy about his not receiving every possible honour. Completely sux he wasnt long ago nominated & inducted.
The problem is that there's a 4 max. If you put him in then you end up leaving out Oates again or Bure again or snubbing Sundin and atm it's bad enough that Shanahan or Makarov couldn't get in (or Lindros or Fleury I'd say but that's my own opinion).
Make it a 4 max for players and allow an extra spot or two for non-players and women imo.
Put him in already. No coach should go in before him from here on in. But Fred and the Broad Street Bullies made some enemies over the years too. I guess grudges run deep. Funny how Pat Quinn - another coach who could get a long look - replaced him as Flyers coach and is on the HHOF committee.
As far as builders go there is no excuse anymore for overlooking Don Cherry. I don't know what else the man would have to do in order to get into the Hall. Maybe butt kiss a bit but we all know that's not his style. Canadians speak every Saturday night when they tune into him. I don't know how much more impact a person needs to make.
I suspect the problem for Shero is that he was indeed a very successful builder who had a substantial impact on the sport ... but in an negative way. Dragged the sport and its reputation into the gutter.
I'm not sure what to do with him, really, and I suspect the HHOF voting committee isn't, either. It's very difficult to reconcile the success he had vs. the disgusting way he achieved that success.
As far as builders go there is no excuse anymore for overlooking Don Cherry. I don't know what else the man would have to do in order to get into the Hall. Maybe butt kiss a bit but we all know that's not his style. Canadians speak every Saturday night when they tune into him. I don't know how much more impact a person needs to make.
You wanna induct a man who has built up his fame by demonstrating somewhat extreme nationalism over and over again? And in many cases going way over the top.
Sorry, Hockey Hall Of Fame is a wrong place for such guy. We are not talking about some Canada Hall of Fame here. His impact outside of Canada is highly questionable and probably not very positive.
You wanna induct a man who has built up his fame by demonstrating somewhat extreme nationalism over and over again? And in many cases going way over the top.
Sorry, Hockey Hall Of Fame is a wrong place for such guy. We are not talking about some Canada Hall of Fame here. His impact outside of Canada is highly questionable and probably not very positive.
He is clearly blackballed and I think he knows it and probably shrugs it off too. The monumental impact he has had on Canada should outstrip any lack of impact he's had in another country. When they voted for who was the greatest Canadian of all-time Cherry finished 7th in 2005. This included politicians, celebrities, etc. I am pretty sure even John Madden wouldn't get that close in the States. It is amazing how much a sports analyst has impacted not only Canadians but the game.
I suspect he'll never get in because he is loved and loathed at the same time. Objectively not being liked is the only way he would be left out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
I suspect the problem for Shero is that he was indeed a very successful builder who had a substantial impact on the sport ... but in an negative way. Dragged the sport and its reputation into the gutter.
I'm not sure what to do with him, really, and I suspect the HHOF voting committee isn't, either. It's very difficult to reconcile the success he had vs. the disgusting way he achieved that success.
They need to get over it really. The Flyers were a rugged team but you don't win hockey just by being a bully. They had Clarke, Parent and Barber as HHOFers. Leach and MacLeish were at least playing at a HHOF level at that time. They had talent and they combined that with brute intimidation where they ran the NHL for three years and then were still feared afterwards. Their style beat the Russians in 1976. A myth would suggest they bullied their way to a victory but you don't win 4-1 and outshoot your opponent (it was something like 49-20 if I recall) without talent.
Other teams have tried it but no other team has actually won with that type of method (lots of talent coupled with lots of toughness/enforcers) until Anaheim did it in 2007. And even then it was short lived. Shero built an empire.
He is clearly blackballed and I think he knows it and probably shrugs it off too. The monumental impact he has had on Canada should outstrip any lack of impact he's had in another country. When they voted for who was the greatest Canadian of all-time Cherry finished 7th in 2005. This included politicians, celebrities, etc. I am pretty sure even John Madden wouldn't get that close in the States. It is amazing how much a sports analyst has impacted not only Canadians but the game.
John Madden wouldn't even enter the conversation.
