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Where does Marcus Kruger start the year?

View Poll Results: Kruger's role
2nd line Center 5 12.20%
3rd line Center 5 12.20%
4th line Center 11 26.83%
3rd/4th line Wing 11 26.83%
Extra Forward 1 2.44%
AHL 5 12.20%
Different organization 3 7.32%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-27-2012, 12:07 PM
  #26
BobbyJet
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
I still don't understand why people would want him centering the 4th line...
-He's not good at faceoffs
-He's not good enough along the boards
-He's not tough enough

Having a small, weak positional defender center your 4th line is not ideal.
I’ve been saying that since he joined Hawks ... and he is not ready for a 2nd line role neither. He had better be doing OT in the weight room this summer… but even with that, I don’t see a fit for him here. If his strength improves he possibly has a shot at 4th line winger but he has a ways to go to fill that position effectively.
I did give Kruger the benefit of the doubt and inked him in as a bottom 6 winger. That said if Q was smart he’d put him in the role he needs to be in (2nd line center) in Rockford.


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Old
06-27-2012, 01:05 PM
  #27
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I’ve been saying that since he joined Hawks ... and he is not ready for a 2nd line role neither. He had better be doing OT in the weight room this summer… but even with that, I don’t see a fit for him here. If his strength improves he possibly has a shot at 4th line winger but he has a ways to go to fill that position effectively.
I did give Kruger the benefit of the doubt and inked him in as a bottom 6 winger. That said if Q was smart he’d put him in the role he needs to be in (2nd line center) in Rockford.
That says it all right there...how can a guy who is not even good enough to be a 1st line center in the AHL even be considered for a 2nd line center in the NHL.

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06-27-2012, 01:13 PM
  #28
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That says it all right there...how can a guy who is not even good enough to be a 1st line center in the AHL even be considered for a 2nd line center in the NHL.
He would be a third line center on the Hogs.

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06-27-2012, 02:04 PM
  #29
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I love threads like this... Can't wait to bump them

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06-27-2012, 02:36 PM
  #30
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I love threads like this... Can't wait to bump them
I have a strong feeling you won't be the one doing the bumping.

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06-27-2012, 02:46 PM
  #31
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Can't wait to bump that one thread where Bubba posted his expectations about Kruger for this year. Talk about LOL.

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06-27-2012, 06:36 PM
  #32
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Kruger is decent enough defensively to be on Bolland's right side.

But he has a LOT of work to do to be one of the top two centers. Not good enough at this point in time to be there.

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06-27-2012, 07:07 PM
  #33
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I don't like it, but I think they will start him at second line center.

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06-27-2012, 07:53 PM
  #34
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He's overmatched at 2C, but he's still a good player. I've said it a few times now, I'm curious how he would do on the wing. I think we will probably see him at 2C again, and he will be lacking there offensively, but he won't be a liability. Only 3 players on the Hawks had tougher defensive assignments than Kruger last year (Bickell, Bolland, Frolik), but he was the only one of the four to have a positive CORSI.

Obviously you can't tell the whole story that way... but I'll stand by my assertions that he's one of our best defensive forwards.

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06-27-2012, 08:04 PM
  #35
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That's just not true at all. Many players had tougher assignments than Kruger did: Bolland, Bickell, Shaw, Frolik, Stalberg, Toews, Kane all had tougher assignments. Corsi is really dumb anyway though. Bolland got outshot? No ****, he had awful linemates, started 70% of his shifts in the d zone, played against the toughest competition.

The only real place Kruger should play on this team next year is on the wing in the 3rd or 4th line but there's no real fit there anyway. Shaw is on the 3rd and is already small, we need a bigger guy there to hit. I don't think Kruger belongs on the 4th line either since he is so small and doesn't hit. He's just a square peg at the moment. Send him to Rockford and play 3C.

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06-27-2012, 08:34 PM
  #36
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I stand corrected, I remembered the graph way wrong. And you can call CORSI dumb all day if you want, but I don't think you've ever yet said why. It's just a tool to help in evaluating players.

Speaking more of Kruger on the wing though, what would folks think of Kruger Bolland Shaw? Since you can pretty much always rely on Kruger to play defense first I think this could work well to let Bolland and Shaw off the leash a little for some aggressive forechecking.

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06-27-2012, 08:38 PM
  #37
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2C as much as it hurts my stomach.

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06-27-2012, 09:20 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zytz View Post
I stand corrected, I remembered the graph way wrong. And you can call CORSI dumb all day if you want, but I don't think you've ever yet said why. It's just a tool to help in evaluating players.

Speaking more of Kruger on the wing though, what would folks think of Kruger Bolland Shaw? Since you can pretty much always rely on Kruger to play defense first I think this could work well to let Bolland and Shaw off the leash a little for some aggressive forechecking.
Can you summarize in a few sentences how CORSI works?

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06-27-2012, 09:27 PM
  #39
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Can you summarize in a few sentences how CORSI works?
Basically it's +/- but for shots taken, and it's typically measured at even strength as a way to measure puck Posession. Basically if you have a positive CORSI you're helping your team (somehow) to generate offense.

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06-27-2012, 09:29 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by zytz View Post
Basically it's +/- but for shots taken, and it's typically measured at even strength as a way to measure puck Posession. Basically if you have a positive CORSI you're helping your team (somehow) to generate offense.
Makes else.... Thanks.

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06-27-2012, 09:30 PM
  #41
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Can you summarize in a few sentences how CORSI works?
It's the same idea as +/- but instead of measuring goals while on ice, it measures shots attempted (including blocked shots) while on ice.

It's flawed, but it's still useful. There aren't a lot of better ways to measure defensive effectiveness (yet)

And before anyone says it, the idea that hockey can't be measured statistically is straight bunk.

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06-27-2012, 09:45 PM
  #42
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I fully believe the only real way to analyze hockey is through using your eyes. But that's just me. CORSI is okay as far as stats go but it's very very flawed.

For example, this playoffs against the Canucks, the Kings were often times badly outshot but still easily won the series. Not all shots are equal and not all shots, realistically, have a chance of going in. A good defense allows bad shots over good so when a team floods them with bad shots it really doesn't matter much. Corsi is okay as a general tool but in reality it's just another way to try to put numbers on a game that is far too fluid to be easily digested with numbers.

Also, the problem with a Kruger-Bolland-Shaw line, as I said before, is that they're too small. Their skills complement each other well but I just think that line wouldn't be all that effective. I'd prefer a big hitter there like Hayes or Beach, or more of a scorer who can play along the boards like Stalberg.

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06-28-2012, 12:37 AM
  #43
Bubba88
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Can't wait to bump that one thread where Bubba posted his expectations about Kruger for this year. Talk about LOL.
whats wrong with my expectations about next season? Tell me

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06-28-2012, 12:42 AM
  #44
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Nothing is wrong with predictions until they're wrong. I think you'll be wrong.

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06-28-2012, 12:48 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zytz View Post
Basically it's +/- but for shots taken, and it's typically measured at even strength as a way to measure puck Posession. Basically if you have a positive CORSI you're helping your team (somehow) to generate offense.
So you're saying Kruger got a lot of weak shots on goal...OK.

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06-28-2012, 12:50 AM
  #46
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what is wrong expecting him to continue his showings at the end of the year?

10G/20A +
with a positiv +/-
get better on faceoffs (not that good, but better)
get better overall and have more confidence in his skills

That's really nothing that sounds like fantasy

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06-28-2012, 12:56 AM
  #47
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He won't get that many points.
He may be a + but if he continues to be gifted great linemates that's to be expected.
If he's over 47-48% on faceoffs I'll eat my own ****.
He better get better if he's on the team but even if he improves slightly he still shouldn't be in the NHL.

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06-28-2012, 06:48 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by CPHawksFan View Post
So you're saying Kruger got a lot of weak shots on goal...OK.
It's a team stat... but I guess that's still not the point of the stat- you need to possess the puck in order to shoot it... that's more what the stat aims to measure.

I think there may be a shot quality stat as well if you care to back up your claim.

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06-28-2012, 08:53 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
It's the same idea as +/- but instead of measuring goals while on ice, it measures shots attempted (including blocked shots) while on ice.

It's flawed, but it's still useful. There aren't a lot of better ways to measure defensive effectiveness (yet)

And before anyone says it, the idea that hockey can't be measured statistically is straight bunk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
I fully believe the only real way to analyze hockey is through using your eyes. But that's just me. CORSI is okay as far as stats go but it's very very flawed.

.
Stats can be helpful, however the eye test is the real judge of players. That is why scouts are sent out to see if the preliminary analysis, based on stats, is valid.

Can you show a stat for compete level, can you show a stat for a winger who always is the 1st guy in on a 50/50 draw? No, and that's why the eye test is the final arbiter.

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06-28-2012, 08:55 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Kruger is decent enough defensively to be on Bolland's right side.

But he has a LOT of work to do to be one of the top two centers. Not good enough at this point in time to be there.
I agree with this whole-heartedly. Kruger is a useful player, and he will get better as he plays, but he's not ready for a top-6 center role and might never be. That's ok, but he's still a good enough player to help the team.

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