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Why not Trade Schneider + My UFA/Trade Targets

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Old
06-27-2012, 01:49 AM
  #1
K35L3R
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Why not Trade Schneider + My UFA/Trade Targets

Hey everyone,

I have been thinking for a while about the whole Luey issue. Assuming that he wants to continue playing in Vancouver after all of this, I think it may be better to trade Schneider.

I think Cory is a great player and IMO, is probably better overall then Luey is (especially in high pressure situations). At the same time, I think we could easily put a package together with him and target an elite level player. Whereas, the proposition of trading Luongo really limits our option and the potential return we could get for him.

Although I do not consider Luey an elite level talent, he is very very good. I do think that we can win a cup with the guy which is the most important factor for me. He took us to the finals and has won gold which is enough for me to continue to have faith in the guy.

With that short explanation, here is what I propose.

***

To VAN:
Rick Nash

To CBJ:
Cory Schneider
Mas Raymond
Patrick McNally
1st Round Pick 2013

I read this article and got the sense of what the asking price for Nash would be. Its not secret that CBJ needs a goalie and it is also not secret that the price is high. I think this may be somewhat of an over payment (do you agree?), but its Rick Nash we are talking about.

***

I would then make some signings. I would want to target a center that could play a second or third line role (due to Kesler's injury). I would also want the center to be big body and have the potential to improve.

Peter Mueller has been injured for a season but do think he is a great fit. He is 6'2, 205 lbs and can play in both a checking or offensive role.

I would also bring back Tanner Glass cause I am fan .

I think our defense needs work but would love to hear your thoughts. Thoughts?

***

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Peter Mueller ($2.500m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Tanner Glass ($1.000m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.225m) / Alexander Edler ($3.250m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Eddie Lack ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,378,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,921,667

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06-27-2012, 01:51 AM
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Call me nuts but that's an over-payment for Nash.

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06-27-2012, 01:53 AM
  #3
Henrik To Daniel
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if Alberts is in our line-up come October I will seriously question management's decisions

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06-27-2012, 01:54 AM
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K35L3R
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
if Alberts is in our line-up come October I will seriously question management's decisions
Agreed as I said defense needs work .

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06-27-2012, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K35L3R View Post
Hey everyone,

I have been thinking for a while about the whole Luey issue. Assuming that he wants to continue playing in Vancouver after all of this, I think it may be better to trade Schneider.

I think Cory is a great player and IMO, is probably better overall then Luey is (especially in high pressure situations). At the same time, I think we could easily put a package together with him and target an elite level player. Whereas, the proposition of trading Luongo really limits our option and the potential return we could get for him.

Although I do not consider Luey an elite level talent, he is very very good. I do think that we can win a cup with the guy which is the most important factor for me. He took us to the finals and has won gold which is enough for me to continue to have faith in the guy.

With that short explanation, here is what I propose.

***

To VAN:
Rick Nash

To CBJ:
Cory Schneider
Mas Raymond
Patrick McNally
1st Round Pick 2013

I read this article and got the sense of what the asking price for Nash would be. Its not secret that CBJ needs a goalie and it is also not secret that the price is high. I think this may be somewhat of an over payment (do you agree?), but its Rick Nash we are talking about.

***

I would then make some signings. I would want to target a center that could play a second or third line role (due to Kesler's injury). I would also want the center to be big body and have the potential to improve.

Peter Mueller has been injured for a season but do think he is a great fit. He is 6'2, 205 lbs and can play in both a checking or offensive role.

I would also bring back Tanner Glass cause I am fan .

I think our defense needs work but would love to hear your thoughts. Thoughts?

***

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Peter Mueller ($2.500m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Tanner Glass ($1.000m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.225m) / Alexander Edler ($3.250m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Eddie Lack ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,378,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,921,667
Lui....not Luey

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06-27-2012, 01:57 AM
  #6
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That's a lot for Nash. I don't think he's worth that kind of package anymore.

That defence would be eaten alive.

And...Glass. No thanks. Been there, done that....never again, please.

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06-27-2012, 01:59 AM
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K35L3R
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Originally Posted by CCF View Post
That's a lot for Nash. I don't think he's worth that kind of package anymore.

That defence would be eaten alive.

And...Glass. No thanks. Been there, done that....never again, please.
Really? Why is it an overpayment in your opinion? What would be the package that you would propose?

Our defense in this proposal is pretty much the same as this year minus Salo. I agree we do need another top 4.

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06-27-2012, 02:03 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
Call me nuts but that's an over-payment for Nash.
I admittedly don't know a lot about McNally, but the fist would be high 20's and then its Schneider and Raymond. I don't think Columbus does this - but I would easily.

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06-27-2012, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by K35L3R View Post
Really? Why is it an overpayment in your opinion? What would be the package that you would propose?

Our defense in this proposal is pretty much the same as this year minus Salo. I agree we do need another top 4.
Maybe overpayment was the wrong word, because Raymond has no value. But, I'm pretty high on Schneider and it would take an overpayment from the other team to get him (to satisfy my demands that is).

The defence is similar, but Alberts should not be playing on a nightly basis. Too slow, and doesn't use his size. Fine as a 7th/8th dman, but that's about it.

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06-27-2012, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CCF View Post
Maybe overpayment was the wrong word, because Raymond has no value. But, I'm pretty high on Schneider and it would take an overpayment from the other team to get him (to satisfy my demands that is).

The defence is similar, but Alberts should not be playing on a nightly basis. Too slow, and doesn't use his size. Fine as a 7th/8th dman, but that's about it.
So, you wouldn't trade Schneider for Nash? You're saying that Rick Nash isn't enough and Columbus would need to add (overpay)?

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06-27-2012, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
So, you wouldn't trade Schneider for Nash? You're saying that Rick Nash isn't enough and Columbus would need to add (overpay)?
I think you could use Schneider to get a player that would be a better option. Nash is still a great player but production has been steadily declining since 2008-09 when he scored 40. He certainly would not be my first choice if we were trading one of our best assets in Schneider.

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06-27-2012, 02:30 AM
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I think you could use Schneider to get a player that would be a better option. Nash is still a great player but production has been steadily declining since 2008-09 when he scored 40. He certainly would not be my first choice if we were trading one of our best assets in Schneider.
But i really need to know; would you trade Schneider for Nash if the deal was straight up - one for one?

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06-27-2012, 02:30 AM
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I've been preaching moving Schneider over Lou for some time, mostly because I think Lack will ultimately steal the #1 job in 2-3 years.

If you can get a top RWer and a pick for Schneider, Raymond ... something... should definitely be an option.

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06-27-2012, 02:46 AM
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Take the 1st rounder out and switch Ballard for McNally and it's a deal.

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06-27-2012, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
I've been preaching moving Schneider over Lou for some time, mostly because I think Lack will ultimately steal the #1 job in 2-3 years.

If you can get a top RWer and a pick for Schneider, Raymond ... something... should definitely be an option.
I agree with this. The Canucks should definitely at the very least be entertaining offers for Schneider.

I like the suggestion of Vancouver targeting Mueller, I think he's a pretty underrated player. Though I have no interest in Vancouver trading for Rick Nash.

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06-27-2012, 03:55 AM
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I agree with this. The Canucks should definitely at the very least be entertaining offers for Schneider.

I like the suggestion of Vancouver targeting Mueller, I think he's a pretty underrated player. Though I have no interest in Vancouver trading for Rick Nash.
Little late for that now. Luongo coming back would just be wrong after this saga, and teams like TB went out and got Lindabck, when we could've got someone like Connolly +.

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06-27-2012, 03:58 AM
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Little late for that now. Luongo coming back would just be wrong after this saga, and teams like TB went out and got Lindabck, when we could've got someone like Connolly +.
Agreed. Originally I was hoping it would be Schneider for Connolly and the 10th overall pick.

I couldn't help but think how good that trade looked as Foresberg kept dropping.

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06-27-2012, 04:05 AM
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I can't believe anyone still believes we can move Schneider and just go forward with Luongo like last year's playoffs never happened.

That would be like leaving your 30 year old wife for the 22 year old stripper, seeing the stripper leave after your wild summer with her, and calling your wife up and asking her if she's ready to have your baby.

No way in the world does Lu want to go through the media circus and fan vitriol that would come with his first bad game if we traded Schneider.

He's gone.

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06-27-2012, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinsane View Post
I can't believe anyone still believes we can move Schneider and just go forward with Luongo like last year's playoffs never happened.

That would be like leaving your 30 year old wife for the 22 year old stripper, seeing the stripper leave after your wild summer with her, and calling your wife up and asking her if she's ready to have your baby.

No way in the world does Lu want to go through the media circus and fan vitriol that would come with his first bad game if we traded Schneider.

He's gone.
There's a rumor floating around that something like this is why Lui wants out actually...

No sarcasm smiley.

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06-27-2012, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinsane View Post
I can't believe anyone still believes we can move Schneider and just go forward with Luongo like last year's playoffs never happened.

That would be like leaving your 30 year old wife for the 22 year old stripper, seeing the stripper leave after your wild summer with her, and calling your wife up and asking her if she's ready to have your baby.

No way in the world does Lu want to go through the media circus and fan vitriol that would come with his first bad game if we traded Schneider.

He's gone.
Schneider played great in 2 games, above average in 1, and won 1 game. Luongo was above average in 1, average in the other, but was hardly the reason they lost those two games. He also happened to win 15 the year before. But you're right, 'What have you done for me lately, Luongo?'

Luongo doesn't want to be known as the guy who cost us Schneider, so he gave MG flexibility. 'Hey, if it helps you out Mike, I'll waive my NTC.' That's a far cry from a trade demand.

Now MG has a choice of which goaltender to move. If Luongo decided to hold fast on his NTC, he'd be getting low-balled on offers for Schneider, because every other GM knows that MG would have no choice but to move him because he'd eat too much cap space long-term. Now, all the focus is on Luongo, and MG can go out and get fair market value for Schneider if he chooses.

Also, isn't it a bit odd that Schneider hasn't signed a long-term extension yet? I mean, if a Luongo trade was a foregone conclusion, what leverage would MG really be losing? I suspect that Schneider is still very much in play and can be had for the right price.


Last edited by Hammer79: 06-27-2012 at 04:27 AM.
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06-27-2012, 04:46 AM
  #21
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Schneider played great in 2 games, above average in 1, and won 1 game. Luongo was above average in 1, average in the other, but was hardly the reason they lost those two games. He also happened to win 15 the year before. But you're right, 'What have you done for me lately, Luongo?'

Luongo doesn't want to be known as the guy who cost us Schneider, so he gave MG flexibility. 'Hey, if it helps you out Mike, I'll waive my NTC.' That's a far cry from a trade demand.

Now MG has a choice of which goaltender to move. If Luongo decided to hold fast on his NTC, he'd be getting low-balled on offers for Schneider, because every other GM knows that MG would have no choice but to move him because he'd eat too much cap space long-term. Now, all the focus is on Luongo, and MG can go out and get fair market value for Schneider if he chooses.

Also, isn't it a bit odd that Schneider hasn't signed a long-term extension yet? I mean, if a Luongo trade was a foregone conclusion, what leverage would MG really be losing? I suspect that Schneider is still very much in play and can be had for the right price.


I in no way am criticizing Lu's play. What I mean is, when you park your to that point franchise goalie, who fairly or not has been the lightning rod for criticism three years running, I don't know how you then convince him or your more critical members of the media/fanbase that this is indeed your first and best choice. He'd be the consolation prize, and I don't think he'd thrive as such, and if you think these forums got stupid LAST year, wait til Schneider posts a shutout for his new team and Lu has a bad game for us on the same night. Wouldn't have to be against each other, either. The "fans" would eat the man alive. It would be the Hodgson/Kassian debate blown up with a nuclear warhead.

As a fan, I don't want it, and Lu has done enough good for this franchise that I wouldn't wish it on him.

If he had played fantastic the whole way last year, winning the Vezina, and lost his job to Schneider this year, a la Thomas/Rask, then maybe you move Schneider next summer. Thomas, though, hadn't lost the faithful to the degree that Lu has, aned Bruin fans wanted to see if he could recapture his Vezina form. Too many fans and media feel that when it comes to the playoffs, Lu has no form to recover. Is it fair? No. But it's tangible, and not going away.

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06-27-2012, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinsane View Post
I in no way am criticizing Lu's play. What I mean is, when you park your to that point franchise goalie, who fairly or not has been the lightning rod for criticism three years running, I don't know how you then convince him or your more critical members of the media/fanbase that this is indeed your first and best choice. He'd be the consolation prize, and I don't think he'd thrive as such, and if you think these forums got stupid LAST year, wait til Schneider posts a shutout for his new team and Lu has a bad game for us on the same night. Wouldn't have to be against each other, either. The "fans" would eat the man alive. It would be the Hodgson/Kassian debate blown up with a nuclear warhead.

As a fan, I don't want it, and Lu has done enough good for this franchise that I wouldn't wish it on him.

If he had played fantastic the whole way last year, winning the Vezina, and lost his job to Schneider this year, a la Thomas/Rask, then maybe you move Schneider next summer. Thomas, though, hadn't lost the faithful to the degree that Lu has, aned Bruin fans wanted to see if he could recapture his Vezina form. Too many fans and media feel that when it comes to the playoffs, Lu has no form to recover. Is it fair? No. But it's tangible, and not going away.
The moment Luongo leaves town, Schneider will be the new lightning rod for criticism. That's just the way it is in a rabid hockey market. They didn't park Luongo because he played poorly, they did it for the sake of making a change. They didn't have enough depth on forward to make up for losing Daniel, so this was the change they made to distract everyone. After going down 0-2, losing both home games, this series was a write-off anyway. Might as well take the opportunity to build some trade value for Schneider.

Who cares if the message boards and talk radio light up if Schneider has a good game and Luongo plays poorly in a game? The fans opinions don't effect anything on the ice.

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06-27-2012, 05:11 AM
  #23
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I think Kevin hit the nail on the head. It's just hard to imagine Schneider getting shipped out at all. Of course, anything's possible, no matter how minute the chance.

Sometimes things don't have to spelled out explicitly. Luongo's time here is up. It's rather unfortunate the way it ended, kind of anticlimactic if anything but it is what it is and with Vignulty around, it just seems like the writing's on the wall.

Having said that, back on topic: I wouldn't trade Schneider as a part of any package for Nash. Dude is trending downwards (twitter ftw) and is overpaid for the production he brings. Honestly, despite the limited sample size, I think Schneider is really that good. I've watched him play almost every game and his gradual ascension from Boston College to where he is now is remarkable. He's so athletic and laterally sound that he can stop those cross ice pass shots with far more ease than Luongo. To me, that dude's never been the same after his groin injury a few years back. He's definitely lost athleticism and it would be a mistake to knowingly depart from a player who shows superior pose and athleticism at the moment.

When I look at these trades, I ask myself, would the return of player X bring more utility value (sorry econ majors) to the team than Schneider would? Most of the time the answer is no.

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06-27-2012, 05:15 AM
  #24
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a trade proposal dissolves into a "has Luo been tainted debate" again.

Luongo merely said he would not object to dropping his NTC if it was the best thing for the team. Bashers and critics interpretted this as "Luongo wants out".

What a pile of steaming ...

I would not object to a trade of Schnieds + for Nash. I have wanted Nash for some time. The proposal as shown is not bad, though it would be nice to move some salary the other way.

Perhaps add Ballard and have them throw in their 2013 2nd ....

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06-27-2012, 05:18 AM
  #25
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Nash is like the cheerleader effect: looks great from far away (playing for another team at the moment) but the minute you get close (starts playing for Vancouver), boom goes the dynamite. Dude is massively overrated and isn't worth his salary.

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