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Old
09-01-2012, 12:01 PM
  #326
BowieSabresFan
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
I disagree wholeheartedly. Look at the situations in the smaller markets. Do you really think they turn much of a profit and dump that profit back into the team? Sure the effect will just be pure profit for teams already at the cap and lucrative(Laffs, Rags, etc) but there are a whole host of teams who simply cannot afford to stay competitive with the upper end salary cap teams. It's almost like there's no cap at all with the way some contracts can circumvent the spirit of the CBA.
What they really need to do is focus on closing those loopholes and spreading the wealth.

If you honestly believe that the bottom 1/3rd of the league's owners are swimming in money relative to players swimming in money, then you're just naive. Every Single Player makes a crapton of money.
Please show me where I said anything along the lines of what some owners make compared to the players. I'll wait patiently.

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Old
09-01-2012, 12:11 PM
  #327
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14 days left to strike a deal

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Old
09-01-2012, 01:20 PM
  #328
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The richer teams have their own buildings, their own tv and radio local/regional deals, big merchandising sales, and a piece of a national media contract that is puny compared to other professional leagues. The NHLPA wants the teams that cannot afford to pay the big bucks to get the money from the owners who do make money. But the Leafs and Rangers do not need one third of the teams in the league to continue making their money. Cut ten franchises and the Rangers, Flyers, Leafs, even Sabres will still be fine. But 220 players won't have jobs in the NHL. Fehr says that is the owners problems and can be resolved by a good brand of socialism--Bettman is saying that is not the way to go. The hard cap has some advantages but the floor is ridiculous as it stands. If I could get Toronto pricing in Columbus or Florida then the floor is great--but I can't. But players in Columbus and Florida want Toronto salaries although their teams are not capable of bringing in the income that Toronto etc. do. The NHLPA has no issue with Toronto gouging fans at $300 a ticket while Florida or Columbus can only get one third of that. They just want the Toronto (etc.) fans to pay into salaries for their competitors who cannot afford comparable salaries for their players/staff/leasing etc...Toronto says why must I pay millions for players on teams who are a drag when they come into my building and who have lousy gross incomes when we go to theirs? For a national tv contract---as if a Phoenix Florida game will have millions of viewers? Or for expansion fees which are eaten up in financial assistance almost immediately? Just some thoughts--I can say I have a vision but damned if I have the knwledge to make it a reality.

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Old
09-01-2012, 02:12 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
Please show me where I said anything along the lines of what some owners make compared to the players. I'll wait patiently.
When you understand the word "relative" I'll show you.

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Old
09-01-2012, 03:22 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
When you understand the word "relative" I'll show you.
Try not to be unnecessarily insulting with someone who is trying to have a polite discussion on a message board. If you can do that, maybe we can continue the conversation.


Last edited by BowieSabresFan: 09-01-2012 at 03:38 PM.
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Old
09-01-2012, 08:05 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
So what you're saying is that the owners are stupid for trying to win under the current rules? The owners who ARE making tons of money? It isn't like some who can choose not to and are ok with mediocrity. If an owner CAN, they will. But there are plenty of owners who simply cannot afford to.
And to flip your example on its head, the players could simply say, "Sorry, those contracts are out of hand. We won't sign them for the stability of the league."
Sounds pretty damned far fetched doesn't it?
The owners are crying foul about the players making too much money, yet year in and year out they have handed out these stupid contracts that ALLOW the players to spend too much money.

They can't have it both ways.

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Old
09-01-2012, 08:19 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
Yeah, the fact that we're talking about following the MLB model is hilarious. The reason is because "they have labor stability?". YOU'RE THE DAMN NHLPA HEAD, THAT'S YOUR FAULT.

Who gives a ****? You know what's more important that labor stability? Fan interest ($$$), you know what keeps fans interested? Parody, you know what creates parody? A salary cap.
You may be too young to remember Donald Fehr was the head of the MLB players union. In essence, he's citing himself as a reference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montag DP View Post
Pique your interest.
While parody of the negotiations has not peaked from either side, we hope for a peek at the pending CBA, because we are piqued by the promise of parity.

/Noah Webster

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Old
09-01-2012, 08:29 PM
  #333
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Both sides are cheap a$$ clowns

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Old
09-01-2012, 08:34 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Both sides are cheap a$$ clowns
Yea, I have no sympathy for either side here. Both are partly at fault. The problem is, we get to pay for it with no hockey.

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Old
09-01-2012, 10:56 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
Try not to be unnecessarily insulting with someone who is trying to have a polite discussion on a message board. If you can do that, maybe we can continue the conversation.
And you stating, "I'll wait here patiently." isn't condescending?

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Old
09-01-2012, 10:57 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
The owners are crying foul about the players making too much money, yet year in and year out they have handed out these stupid contracts that ALLOW the players to spend too much money.

They can't have it both ways.
It isn't every owner. But it IS every player.

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Old
09-02-2012, 12:08 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
It isn't every owner. But it IS every player.
Sigh.

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Old
09-02-2012, 01:41 AM
  #338
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Let's say December 21st comes early and we get another season locked out. Buffalo doesn't come out that bad considering the issues. The only year Buffalo is in danger, in terms of the cap and actual vs. cap salary, is 2012-2013.

2012-2013 (depending on the roster and excluding Ennis' contract)
Actual salary: ~$73M
Cap salary: ~$63M

2013-2014 (depending on the roster and excluding Ennis' contract)
Actual salary: ~$47M
Cap salary: ~$46M

If the season is locked out, the big money years for Leino, Ehrhoff, and Myers pass without threat of counting against the cap (depending on the new CBA). The Sabres would have ~$10M (minus Ennis' contract) to spend in 2013 if the cap is on the low end of estimates, and good competition for most of the roster spots. Hodgson, Weber, Brennan, Adam and Tropp are RFAs, and together they'll still leave room for UFAs.

This all might work out in Buffalo's favor.

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Old
09-02-2012, 01:53 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
And you stating, "I'll wait here patiently." isn't condescending?
Agreed.

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Old
09-02-2012, 11:18 AM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Let's say December 21st comes early and we get another season locked out. Buffalo doesn't come out that bad considering the issues. The only year Buffalo is in danger, in terms of the cap and actual vs. cap salary, is 2012-2013.

2012-2013 (depending on the roster and excluding Ennis' contract)
Actual salary: ~$73M
Cap salary: ~$63M

2013-2014 (depending on the roster and excluding Ennis' contract)
Actual salary: ~$47M
Cap salary: ~$46M

If the season is locked out, the big money years for Leino, Ehrhoff, and Myers pass without threat of counting against the cap (depending on the new CBA). The Sabres would have ~$10M (minus Ennis' contract) to spend in 2013 if the cap is on the low end of estimates, and good competition for most of the roster spots. Hodgson, Weber, Brennan, Adam and Tropp are RFAs, and together they'll still leave room for UFAs.

This all might work out in Buffalo's favor.


so if they don't play at all, what happens to the salaries (bonus), and the length of contract. (hodgson becomes a rfa., and meyers misses out on his signing bonus)?

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Old
09-02-2012, 02:08 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
And you stating, "I'll wait here patiently." isn't condescending?
Perhaps a bit, and my apologies for that. However, you did suggest I might be naive about something I never even said or implied.

As for the owners, the initial players' proposal did a good bit for revenue sharing, and much more than the initial owner's proposal. I would wager that the small market owners might have gone for the initial player's proposal as a starting point.

In other words, it seems as if the initial players' proposal did more for the small market owners, than anything that Bettman has proposed.

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Old
09-02-2012, 02:26 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Jamie Walker View Post
so if they don't play at all, what happens to the salaries (bonus), and the length of contract. (hodgson becomes a rfa., and meyers misses out on his signing bonus)?
I have no idea. Are all contracts honored during the lockout? I couldn't find an answer to that.

My uneducated guess is that players aren't paid during the lockout. Once the new CBA is signed, all money due to players is paid, including Myers bonus, etc.

So, it'd work out for Buffalo, methinks.

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Old
09-02-2012, 06:37 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
I have no idea. Are all contracts honored during the lockout? I couldn't find an answer to that.

My uneducated guess is that players aren't paid during the lockout. Once the new CBA is signed, all money due to players is paid, including Myers bonus, etc.

So, it'd work out for Buffalo, methinks.
I believe that all bonuses are paid already like Myers' on July 1 and all contracts lose a year, only bonus money is untouchable during a lockout. Players get their escrow check in October I believe.

https://twitter.com/walsha/status/239359908204658689

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Old
09-02-2012, 07:32 PM
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Sigh.
Does this mean you think every owner hands out the kind of contracts that are contributing towards this labor strife? Be honest, its only some owners.

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Old
09-03-2012, 03:41 AM
  #345
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
Does this mean you think every owner hands out the kind of contracts that are contributing towards this labor strife? Be honest, its only some owners.
I dont think you are grasping the concept of the lockout. It is "for the good of the game" So small market teams like Pheonix and Atlanta I mean Winnipeg(get it) can survive AND compete with the large market teams. Please dont use Buffalo as an example to the opposite, donīt kid yourself Pegula is losing money, he can afford it where others canīt.

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Old
09-03-2012, 05:08 AM
  #346
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There goes the idea of swapping Leopold at the deadline this year for a 1st round pick.

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Old
09-03-2012, 12:12 PM
  #347
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donīt kid yourself Pegula is losing money, he can afford it where others canīt.
I think plenty of other owners could afford to lose money, they're just too rational to try it. Pegula is like honey badger, he don't give a ****.

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Old
09-04-2012, 07:39 PM
  #348
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Pegula era off to roaring start. Miss playoffs and then lockout...

Great thing is that it can only get better from here on out.

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Old
09-04-2012, 07:50 PM
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
The owners are crying foul about the players making too much money, yet year in and year out they have handed out these stupid contracts that ALLOW the players to spend too much money.

They can't have it both ways.
All you have to do is a) lower the salary cap or b) decrease their share of the pie.

It's not that they complain that the elite players like Shea Weber make too much, they're complaining that the total piece of the player pie is too big.

Frankly, I don't think owners really give a damn how much individual players make. They'd rather pay Superstar player X $45 million dollars a year and his teammates a total of $5 million a year than pay Superstar Player X $20 million a year and his teammates $31 million a year.

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Old
09-04-2012, 08:40 PM
  #350
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Bettman could make this easier for fans, sportswriters and players to understand with this announcement. "We agree to revenue sharing-on the understanding that Crosby shares his $12 million with Mike Weber..Shea Weber shares with Matt Ellis....we will share on the same basis...."

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