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Ralph Krueger is the new head coach of the Edmonton Oilers.

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Old
06-28-2012, 04:06 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Grod View Post
Florida is the farthest thing from a contender in my eyes. What players really put them up over the top now, really? If anything I look at Tallons work there thus far as a gap-stop. Aside from his mid level prospects what else does he really have that umm we don't?

Not disclaim Florida or rose colour Edmomton but how much closer to a contender do you really think they are and do you actually believe that they are that much further ahead in their state of mediocrity And over-achievement?

Gutting our prospect pool, acquiring top level prospects through failure while managing the team with gap stowaning the bllue chippers develop until they flourish seemed to be the only route to building a contender after years of terrible scouting and acquisitions.

Why renovate an old building when you already own the highly valued property and you can simply demolish the old structure then build a stat of the art one instead. Interesting analogy if anything.

P.S. Stever Turtleiini is pretty funny. How about Steve Digilentini instead? I'm shocked he never gets commends for the mistakes he doesn't make. Cause after all, if you want action than you must like Kevin Troll....Patience is a virtue in a lot of instances and we are at the stage where important moves to fill holes can be made. Not without forgetting the studs in our system that is.

People assume his position is so simple and that all the other teams are willing to get bent over by giving up their best assets for our garbage. It doesn't happen overnight, especially with all the webs B-Lowe-J and Pantygast made.
Florida didnt gut anything. They have one of the premier prospect pools in the entire league. Tallon was busy signing/trading for players who actually lived up to their contracts for the most part. What a concept! He took them from the lottery to winning their division and taking the eventual Stanley Cup finalists to seven games only to lose in OT. We are so very far away from that it is impossible to comprehend.

What do they have that we dont have?

A general manager who goes out and actively makes the team better instead of standing around picking his nose waiting for the tsn lottery show every spring.

A coach who motivates and gets the best out of his players.

Decent, consistent goaltending and top notch goaltending prospects.

A defense made up of real honest to goodness nhl players.

A balanced lineup with secondary scoring and solid role players.

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06-28-2012, 04:08 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Florida was able to get it done without spending massive dollars or gutting their prospect pool.

Meanwhile we are signing the Cam Barker's and Kurtis Foster's of the world and telling the fans that losing is unacceptable, and then blaming the coach when we wind up with egg on our face.

Rinse and repeat.

You can see it all unfolding again. Fans are saying this is the year we expect better results. Give the same coaching staff we had last year a chance to turn things around this year. Things will be different if we can only sign players x,y, and z.

Its the same line of crap we have been sold every year along the way. And we buy it. So maybe we deserve to lose our money pushing all in with a pair of deuces. We are the fish at the table. The mark at the weekly poker game. Over and over again.
I don't think anyone really had any reasonable expectations for the last few years to yield anything but development of our young talent. Those seasons weren't measured by points, they were measured by the development of Hall, Eberle, RNH, Petry, Dubnyk.... ect. This is the 3rd season of the rebuild and this year "I" will be measuring the teams success in wins and losses, not growth and draft picks.

I know the Oilers have been rebuilding since the 90's and that's probably your go to argument. This however is the first time they have anything worth building around, this is the first time they woke up with pocket aces, even a fish can go Runner Runner and backdoor the nuts. Tambilini Just went runner runner and ended up with quad aces. That was the easy part, the hard part is getting the return on his hand. If he plays it right he can get all his chips in and hit the jackpot, or he can be timid and passive and win a small pot. Or he can be too aggressive and lose his callers and end up having to muck his hand and steal the blinds.

This summer is when His job begins. He needs to build a support cast around his draft choices and prospects that can become a winning team. he doesn't have to put together a 100+point team, but he does have to compete to make the playoffs. He needs to put together a decent defense as well as add depth to the roster. The main reason why the Oilers have been so bad the last 3 years is because they have no depth. When you have your top players missing as many games as they have over the past 3 seasons you need to have legitimate NHL players who can step in. Not the webmasters cousin who played Jr. B 15 years ago.

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06-28-2012, 04:09 AM
  #253
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It wouldn't really shock me if Florida were to fall out of the playoffs next year, much like Columbus and Colorado had their one year in and then flopped out the following years.

If Tallon was smart IMO he'd go get Luongo. It's just sitting there on a platter and you can probably get him for a low price.

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06-28-2012, 04:13 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
The "odyssey" to get Hall + RNH + Yakupov (if you want to call it that) is in effect the Oilers response to constantly being rebuffed by establishing NHL stars in UFA/trade scenarios and being tarred and feathered by Pronger-gate.

I think it's obvious the last few years they have deliberately followed the course for a rebuild in the vein of Pittsburgh/Chicago/Washington that would enable them to have high-end talent.

Taylor Hall is good, but Taylor Hall is no Sidney Crosby. And even Sidney Crosby needed both Evgeni Malkin and MAF and Jordan Staal to get the one Cup he has.

They always were aiming to get at least one more high end player out of the draft to join Hall + Eberle, and probably ideally two (ideally meaning in the context of a tank rebuild).

Again, not saying this is good/bad or injecting my personal opinion into it, just stating what I think they've obviously been doing.

In a year or two it wouldn't surprise me if people think Ralph Krueger is some kind of genius, but really it'll mostly be because he has four superstar caliber players.
So if the plan IS to tank it up for top picks, and they keep telling us that the goal is to win and losing is unacceptable, what makes you think that they arent going to continue for one or two more years doing just that?

I mean you would have to be a little dim to stop now with Mackinnon and Jones waiting at the end of the rainbow next June wouldnt you? I mean, would our team be better off with one of those two or say a Ryan Pulock or Curtis Lazar instead?

What have they done this off-season that would have you believe that things are really going to be different next season?

To me, the answer is nothing.

Or maybe more specifically, firing the coach and hiring his assistant, which, if its not nothing, its next to nothing.

Hiring the reject they fired when this all started? The guy who cant get a job with another nhl team despite openly advertising on national tv?

Theyre really swinging for the fences arent they?

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06-28-2012, 04:21 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
So if the plan IS to tank it up for top picks, and they keep telling us that the goal is to win and losing is unacceptable, what makes you think that they arent going to continue for one or two more years doing just that?
Because I think at this point they've amassed what I would think it pretty impressive core of talent.

I think even internally too they know they can't keep losing indefinitely otherwise people will simply stop going to the rink.

As for the HC pick ... I'm OK with it, simply because Krueger is less of a "my way or the high way" type (like Brent Sutter) and more of a "what can I do to get the best out of this player" type. I liked what I heard about tailoring something for each player.

This group cannot work under a strict system coach. Maybe 2-3 years down the line, sure, but not right now. Especially with the Yakupov pick.

I've never really been a big believer in the idea that GMs/coaches really win championships though to be honest. I think that makes for a nice Hollywood movie, but really it's about the talent you have.

Jerry Krause who managed the Chicago Bulls in the 80s/90s was despised by his players and made some bone headed moves several times, but the team was dominant because they had Michael Jordan (who hated Krause's guts).

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06-28-2012, 04:24 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Florida didnt gut anything. They have one of the premier prospect pools in the entire league. Tallon was busy signing/trading for players who actually lived up to their contracts for the most part. What a concept! He took them from the lottery to winning their division and taking the eventual Stanley Cup finalists to seven games only to lose in OT. We are so very far away from that it is impossible to comprehend.

What do they have that we dont have?

A general manager who goes out and actively makes the team better instead of standing around picking his nose waiting for the tsn lottery show every spring.

A coach who motivates and gets the best out of his players.

Decent, consistent goaltending and top notch goaltending prospects.

A defense made up of real honest to goodness nhl players.

A balanced lineup with secondary scoring and solid role players.
If I said they gutted their team I didn't mean to. I meant to say that they iced a squad with the leagues leftovers. They have good prospects up the middle but I believe we have leap frogged them there. And with the right acquisitions this off season and a more direct and inspirable coaching approach I don't see how they are the better squad. Using Tallon as an example I suggest referring to his Chicago rebuild when he actually won a championship and not just qualified for the first round.

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06-28-2012, 04:28 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
I don't think anyone really had any reasonable expectations for the last few years to yield anything but development of our young talent. Those seasons weren't measured by points, they were measured by the development of Hall, Eberle, RNH, Petry, Dubnyk.... ect. This is the 3rd season of the rebuild and this year "I" will be measuring the teams success in wins and losses, not growth and draft picks.

I know the Oilers have been rebuilding since the 90's and that's probably your go to argument. This however is the first time they have anything worth building around, this is the first time they woke up with pocket aces, even a fish can go Runner Runner and backdoor the nuts. Tambilini Just went runner runner and ended up with quad aces. That was the easy part, the hard part is getting the return on his hand. If he plays it right he can get all his chips in and hit the jackpot, or he can be timid and passive and win a small pot. Or he can be too aggressive and lose his callers and end up having to muck his hand and steal the blinds.

This summer is when His job begins. He needs to build a support cast around his draft choices and prospects that can become a winning team. he doesn't have to put together a 100+point team, but he does have to compete to make the playoffs. He needs to put together a decent defense as well as add depth to the roster. The main reason why the Oilers have been so bad the last 3 years is because they have no depth. When you have your top players missing as many games as they have over the past 3 seasons you need to have legitimate NHL players who can step in. Not the webmasters cousin who played Jr. B 15 years ago.
None of that is happening. That's my point. Weve all been punked.

They sit in Katz' grotto and laugh at us as we buy their slap chop end of the year sales pitch. Remember when Tambellini said we had to get tougher and harder to play against?

That was after the 2008/09 season. Are we any tougher or harder to play against? If anything we are weaker and easier to play against. That is three years later. Do you think a competent gm should be able to make a team tougher and harder to play against in three years? I sure do.

Weve either been lied to, year after year, or these guys are incompetent. Take your pick.

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06-28-2012, 04:30 AM
  #258
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tbh I think we're in for one more tank.

We're gonna get Mackinnon/Jones and then Tambellini will probably move up a position with MacT/Lowe becoming GM.

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06-28-2012, 04:34 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Grod View Post
If I said they gutted their team I didn't mean to. I meant to say that they iced a squad with the leagues leftovers. They have good prospects up the middle but I believe we have leap frogged them there. And with the right acquisitions this off season and a more direct and inspirable coaching approach I don't see how they are the better squad. Using Tallon as an example I suggest referring to his Chicago rebuild when he actually won a championship and not just qualified for the first round.
He has successfully pulled two franchises from the muck to respectability.

What have Maclowbellini ever done? Besides driving one franchise into the muck?

Campbell isnt a leftover. Neither are Versteeg or Fleischman. They are actual nhl talent. Tallon signs those guys, while Turtlenni digs through the bargain bin looking for Minnesota Wild castoffs.

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06-28-2012, 04:38 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
He has successfully pulled two franchises from the muck to respectability.

What have Maclowbellini ever done? Besides driving one franchise into the muck?

Campbell isnt a leftover. Neither are Versteeg or Fleischman. They are actual nhl talent. Tallon signs those guys, while Turtlenni digs through the bargain bin looking for Minnesota Wild castoffs.
While I don't disagree, the thing is I'd rather have Yakupov for the next 8/9/10 years than one round in the playoffs.

I wouldn't trade our roster for theirs, honestly speaking.

Tambellini/Lowe I don't give a rats ass about though. If they're fired, so be it.

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06-28-2012, 04:43 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
He has successfully pulled two franchises from the muck to respectability.

What have Maclowbellini ever done? Besides driving one franchise into the muck?

Campbell isnt a leftover. Neither are Versteeg or Fleischman. They are actual nhl talent. Tallon signs those guys, while Turtlenni digs through the bargain bin looking for Minnesota Wild castoffs.
Schultz isn't a castoff he is a shutdown solution we acquired for a bi-polar player with a love for folding when his opponent raises. You know, Tommy Salos sister....

Eric Belanger isn't real talent either? Versteeg is In Woods' list of call girls at this stage already. Fleischman is a skilled scorer when he shows up. What I'm saying is between those two and Kopecky they were castoff other squads with more skilled players and better teams. Campbell was simply just to expensive for his performances in the past couple years. He essentially brought them to the cap floor and fit the tag because of it. Do I have to remind you that they will lose Garrison this year? Is he going to find a suitor that's willing to give him a Souray style comtractmfor one year performance levels or mainly offensive stats. Or should Lotterlini be so shrewd as to signing him?

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06-28-2012, 04:44 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
While I don't disagree, the thing is I'd rather have Yakupov for the next 8/9/10 years than one round in the playoffs.

I wouldn't trade our roster for theirs, honestly speaking.

Tambellini/Lowe I don't give a rats ass about though. If they're fired, so be it.
I don't mind Tambellini and his methods but Lowe can hit the road. My points are exactly what your first two sentences exclaim.

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06-28-2012, 04:48 AM
  #263
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Kevin Dineen did a great job with them last year, that's for sure. We were 1-0 vs. the Panthers last year. For what it's worth.

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06-28-2012, 05:09 AM
  #264
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tbh I think we're in for one more tank.

We're gonna get Mackinnon/Jones and then Tambellini will probably move up a position with MacT/Lowe becoming GM.
I really doubt it. They have to show real progress next year or it'll looking less like Pittsburgh/Chicago and more like Atlanta 2.0. 3 First overalls is enough.

Krueger looks like a decent hire but the coach won't matter if the GM's don't fix the roster. 2 Defenders and a capable goalie to split with Dubnyk would be nice. This team could take a big step forward next year if they can actually pull it off.

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06-28-2012, 05:09 AM
  #265
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tbh I think we're in for one more tank.

We're gonna get Mackinnon/Jones and then Tambellini will probably move up a position with MacT/Lowe becoming GM.
It's not impossible, but I think there would have to be monstrous injury problems for that to happen.

If we had Yakupov on our team last year, the 40-50 point increase in offence alone probably would've been enough to knock us out of the top 5 alone.

This team fluked out in getting the pick they did.

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06-28-2012, 08:26 AM
  #266
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Ralph Krueger has consistently overachieved with every team he has worked for as a head coach. In 1998 as a coach in Austria he led the VEU Feldkirch to the Euopean League title against opponents from Sweden, Finland and Russia, no small achievement considering the the quality of these leagues. He will do fine as an Oilers head coach. This team has just started to take flight and they are bound to rise. Just relax everyone, this micro-analysing of every Oilers-connected **** is certainly detrimental to the mental health.

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06-28-2012, 08:35 AM
  #267
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We are so very far away from that it is impossible to comprehend.

What do they have that we dont have?
I think, IATL, with respect, you need to take some time to really consider this statement and whether or not your attitude has dramatically distorted your perception of this team.

Nobody in the league, with the possible exception of Columbus, is "so very far away" from Florida.

Other than an attractive prospect pool, they were a laughing stock of the league, even up to October 2011.

Their goaltending consisted of washed-up castoffs.
Their core forward was a lottery-pick bust.
Their team was little but secondary scoring at best, filled with overpriced vets and huge question marks.
You can't look at a guy like Fleischmann whose career was potentially over due to his medical problems, and say "oh man, why couldn't we target a guy like that instead of Hemsky."
You can't look at a guy like Weiss, who didn't crack 60 points (and even then only scored 14 goals) until he was 25 and say, "man, how did they get so lucky while we wound up with a bust like Gagner?"
Or wonder why we can't pick up an undrafted FA defenseman like Garrison who scored 18 points in his 1st full year, instead of busts like Corey Potter.
Or feel that the Oilers will never be able to put together a goalie combination like that rocking Theodore/Clemmensen duet.



If you're sitting there going, "well, Gagner will never be Weiss, Hemsky will never be Fleischmann, Potter will never be Garrison, Dubnyk will never be Clemmensen, etc." then I'd like to see the betting slip you had that shows all the money you made after predicting the Panthers' division win last season.

If you were able to predict the Panthers last year would turn their free-agent castoff spending spree into all this success but somehow differentiate that team from the Oilers to the point that we're "so VERY FAR AWAY" you should be driving a Porsche around Vegas.


For the rest of us non-clairvoyants though, the lesson is not that the Panthers are a model franchise that shows how far teams like the Oilers are off from being reasonably successful...

...it shows that the gap between laughing-stock and playoff-fighter is very small indeed in this NHL.

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06-28-2012, 08:45 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
tbh I think we're in for one more tank.

We're gonna get Mackinnon/Jones and then Tambellini will probably move up a position with MacT/Lowe becoming GM.
I agree w/ Soundwave, if this team is even remotely healthy in 12/13 then while it may be a stretch to suggest they'll be fighting for a playoff spot, I can't see it being in a position to draft either one of those guys.

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06-28-2012, 08:53 AM
  #269
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I agree w/ Soundwave, if this team is even remotely healthy in 12/13 then while it may be a stretch to suggest they'll be fighting for a playoff spot, I can't see it being in a position to draft either one of those guys.
let's trade for Isles' 1st rd pick early, and we could very well get one of them!

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06-28-2012, 09:30 AM
  #270
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after listening to Kruger yesterday on the HNIC radio show i am kind of excited for the new coaching style. his plan is to implement a strong defensive awareness and disciplne but not to reign in the offensive skill the team obviously has. he said it has to be an aggresive forecheck and offensive game because you base your strategy off the strengths of your team.

sounds liek the 80's....................minus the whole defensive awareness thingy

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06-28-2012, 09:34 AM
  #271
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let's trade for Isles' 1st rd pick early, and we could very well get one of them!

Just a hypothetical...

The rumour was that the Isles wanted to trade all their picks in 2012 to Columbus for their #2.

Would you all have traded #1 in 2012 to the Isles for all their picks in 2013... knowing that next year is a deep draft?

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06-28-2012, 09:40 AM
  #272
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Why the **** has the coach/org decided to retain Buchberger as an assistant? He survived every purge. Truly, what does he offer? You mean to tell me they can't find a single better option than he or John Wayne to be in with the staff? Ridiculous.

That is my only beef. But it's a big one. Buchberger can barely put together a proper sentence and probably has an IQ of 90.


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06-28-2012, 09:43 AM
  #273
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Why the **** has the coach/org decided to retain Buchberger as an assistant? He survived every purge. Truly, what does he offer? You mean to tell me they can't find a single better option than he or John Wayne to be in with the staff? Ridiculous.
I think they're grooming Buchberger to replace Joey Moss when he retires.
The two are neck and neck for most job security with the Oilers.

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06-28-2012, 09:53 AM
  #274
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So if the plan IS to tank it up for top picks, and they keep telling us that the goal is to win and losing is unacceptable, what makes you think that they arent going to continue for one or two more years doing just that?

I mean you would have to be a little dim to stop now with Mackinnon and Jones waiting at the end of the rainbow next June wouldnt you? I mean, would our team be better off with one of those two or say a Ryan Pulock or Curtis Lazar instead?

What have they done this off-season that would have you believe that things are really going to be different next season?

To me, the answer is nothing.

Or maybe more specifically, firing the coach and hiring his assistant, which, if its not nothing, its next to nothing.

Hiring the reject they fired when this all started? The guy who cant get a job with another nhl team despite openly advertising on national tv?

Theyre really swinging for the fences arent they?
How can you make a ruling on their moves for next season when free agency hasn't even started yet? A bit premature methinks. At least let them make their moves before your inevitible bitter diatribe is unleashed.

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06-28-2012, 09:58 AM
  #275
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Austria and Switzerland is not the NHL. It's a long way playing under motivated teams that include NHLers playing in the worlds after they have been knocked out of the playoffs.

In any case this has to be the right hire we can't be taking the attitude of "Well let's see what Kruger can do." That seems to be the way the oilers front office feels.

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