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MPS to Montreal

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Old
06-27-2012, 04:49 PM
  #51
Jamin
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
At the expense of who? Hall? Yakupov? RNH? Gagner? Eberle? Hemsky? I hope you get my point. He isn't going to have the chance to play in the top 6 with these guys ahead of him. Drafting Yakupov took his spot and made him expendable.
Thats not the AHL depth though.

People always **** on the oilers for rushing prospects. Hopefully it seems like managment is learning. I wouldnt be dissapointed if MPS and Lander both spent the whole year in the AHL

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06-27-2012, 04:49 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
MPS may not have lit the world on fire last year, but he took the demotion like a man and used it well. He was a major reason that OKC made the AHL semi finals. It was only his 2nd pro season. Its not like he is anywhere near a bust.

Is he worth Tinordi? Yes.
Would I trade Tinordi for him? No.

EDM keeps him, and likely calls him up mid season to play 2nd line LW and he will be very good for them. That's my prediction.
Thank you.

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06-27-2012, 05:05 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
MPS may not have lit the world on fire last year, but he took the demotion like a man and used it well. He was a major reason that OKC made the AHL semi finals. It was only his 2nd pro season. Its not like he is anywhere near a bust.

Is he worth Tinordi? Yes.
Would I trade Tinordi for him? No.

EDM keeps him, and likely calls him up mid season to play 2nd line LW and he will be very good for them. That's my prediction.
Good post. i agree. Tinordi is worth MPS...fair trade... but Klefbom, Marincin, and Musil are just fine as our prospect and future D. If we made any trade of Magnus for a d it would be a polished current in-prime top defender. He isnt in a conversation for prospects that need 3-4 years of seasoning. Also, why the hell would you trade a guy you picked yourself, you know extremely well, gets along with everyone, is gonna be re-signed for cheap, has big size, and has taken adversity like a champ? Tinordi is a great guy too but you dont give up on a guy like that.

Montreal doesnt have anything we want.

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06-27-2012, 05:06 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
Thats not the AHL depth though.

People always **** on the oilers for rushing prospects. Hopefully it seems like managment is learning. I wouldnt be dissapointed if MPS and Lander both spent the whole year in the AHL
to be honest i wouldnt either. detroit always farms their players into their 20s.

This is why i like the re-hiring of MacT. Time has shown that his judgement of players haas been spot on. We all cried and whined when MacT was making Dan Cleary into a checker. Lots cried when he cut schremp, kept changing nilssons linemates to try to get results...etc etc.

if mact is good with players its his ability to read where a player will fit in the nhl if at all. He never had players of the talent of Hall Eberle RNH and Yaks. For those who say hemsky... i laugh. The kids have shown that hemsky was a cheap knock off of a hockey player. these kids know 2 way hockey and fight like demons...and are mostly smaller than him LOL.


Last edited by oilinblood: 06-27-2012 at 05:12 PM.
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06-27-2012, 05:15 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
Good post. i agree. Tinordi is worth MPS...fair trade... but Klefbom, Marincin, and Musil are just fine as our prospect and future D. If we made any trade of Magnus for a d it would be a polished current in-prime top defender. He isnt in a conversation for prospects that need 3-4 years of seasoning. Also, why the hell would you trade a guy you picked yourself, you know extremely well, gets along with everyone, is gonna be re-signed for cheap, has big size, and has taken adversity like a champ? Tinordi is a great guy too but you dont give up on a guy like that.

Montreal doesnt have anything we want.
Maybe we do, maybe we don't. But we are so thin at physical stay at home Dmen (we have 3 in the system) that Tinordi is too important to our system. Also, the needed return would be too much for our thin in depth prospect pool.

Besides, MPS does not solve our immediate top 6 winger problem, and that would be the only reason I see for MTL to trade for him. And as I said, he is only going into his 3rd Pro season, if it were my teams' prospect, now is not the time to trade him....maybe after his 4th Pro season if he can't crack my NHL roster, but not before that, you need to give him time to develop.

Now Peckham I can see as a viable target for Montreal, maybe, as we need physical NHL Dmen now. But that all hinges on UFAs available.

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06-27-2012, 05:28 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
One can argue that Paajarvi is developing and not struggling. The age difference between him and Tinordi is less then 6 months. There is no way EDM will "just release" him even if he struggles next year. The kid developed a nice slapshot in the AHL last season.. He already is big, fast and defensively sound enough to have a nice long NHL career on the 3rd line of an NHL club.
That's great and good for the Oilers. Teams will still have worries about him.

I know not only Oilers fans, but their management isn't going to give up on Paajarvi for cheap.

I think this should have been closed. It's obvious no Oilers fan is willing to settle for less than Tinordi and no habs fan is willing to give up more than Ellis. The gap between Ellis and Tinordi is big.

Silly thread were *****ing and repeating will go through.

The most I'd do is Ellis and a 2nd. It gives the Oilers a good depth defenseman and a pick they don't really need. Not really much motivation for the Oilers. Ellis is a nice d prospect, but the Oilers aren't going to pay Paarjarvi to get him.

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06-27-2012, 05:42 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
I know this has been discussed before but, since we are now post-draft, Edmonton has chosen Yakupov and Montreal has chosen Galchenyuk, it works for both teams to explore the possibility.

How about something surrounding MPS for Morgan Ellis + 2nd in 2013? I believe Ellis is joining Hamilton next year. By drafting Thrower, we can make a defenseman prospect available for you. Alternatively, we can discuss Diaz.

What is MPS's current value?
Don't want MPS at all. Not interested.

He isn't good enough to play a starting role for the crappiest team in the league, what makes you think he's good enough to play for the Habs?

And before you say the Habs weren't much better, take into consideration the 500 man games lost to injury, the management being in shambles all year, the rotten decisions taken by management (trading players between periods, firing coaches on game day etc...).

The Habs on paper are a much better team then what they showed on the ice last season. And barring injuries like last season we will be much more competitive.

Getting MPS for what you Oilers would expect as a return is not smart for the Habs.

The only way I see Habs getting MPS is for a mid level prospect and possible pick.

Ex: Avtsin or Palushaj + 3rd round pick.
or since Oilers need defense like fish need water
St-Denis or Webber + 4th round pick.

And Oilers won't do that, so these two teams won't trade.

What's worse, now that the Oil have drafted Yakupov... HFboards will get fludded with MPS proposals.

I hope you guys do trade MPS for en upgrade on defense because God knows you need it.

It will be funny to see the Oilers star forwards waiting for that good first pass or any sort of transition play from their Def and never get it.
They will start wanting to do everything themselves and turnovers will occur and goals will get scored on them.

Same story year in year out. Basically a loser mentality from Management.

Rather be flashy and lose 6-5 every game then be balanced and win games 4-2 or 3-1.

I would have drafted Murray.

Last time you guys had a good D you went to the SC Finals.
Ofcourse Pronger was a huge part of that and you just can't replace a player like that!

So in the end keep MPS unless you trade him for peanuts.

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06-27-2012, 05:56 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Mahleezer View Post
He isn't good enough to play a starting role for the crappiest team in the league, what makes you think he's good enough to play for the Habs?
I guess if MPS never ever played in the NHL before, he would be considered at 21yo as a blue chip prospect developing very well in the AHL.

But since Edmonton is the crappiest team in the league and he had the chance to see a good deal of experience in the NHL, he is now considered less valuable than a medium prospect.

Come on, MPS is not a Esposito. MPS is among the most underrated player category of all: young player (23yo or less) playing in the league but not producing.

Tinordi in comparaison is playing in the Junior.

Just inverse their role, put Tinordi in the NHL and MPS in the OHL then MPS would become a high prized blue chip prospect., while Tinordi would look like a bust.

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06-27-2012, 06:02 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Paajarvi had an amazing rookie season in the NHL couple yrs ago. If Tinordi is so great he would be in the NHL by now and dominating.
Paajarvi last season struggled in NHL but continued to develop his game in the AHL.
You just answered your own question.

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06-27-2012, 06:14 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I guess if MPS never ever played in the NHL before, he would be considered at 21yo as a blue chip prospect developing very well in the AHL.

But since Edmonton is the crappiest team in the league and he had the chance to see a good deal of experience in the NHL, he is now considered less valuable than a medium prospect.

Come on, MPS is not a Esposito. MPS is among the most underrated player category of all: young player (23yo or less) playing in the league but not producing.

Tinordi in comparaison is playing in the Junior.

Just inverse their role, put Tinordi in the NHL and MPS in the OHL then MPS would become a high prized blue chip prospect., while Tinordi would look like a bust.
Your argumentation is flawed. Tinordi not playing in the NHL has nothing to do with the Habs being crappy or not. It's always been clear a patience approach was required with him because of his upside, his size and the type of game he plays. And so far this no-brainer development approach has been rewarding.

It's entirely plausible to envision MPS might have been hurt long term by the fact the Oilers did not show this type of patience with him. It's also normal that his trade value might currently be affected by his/their missteps. He could also very well turn into the top-six winger with size and speed the team wished for when they drafted him quite high a few years ago. However, what I have seen of him so far makes me weary of the fact he doesn't have the hockey IQ to go along with his skillset. And that's why I wouldn't trade one of our three best D prospects for him.

Hopefully he proves me wrong as soon as this year...

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06-27-2012, 06:16 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Paajarvi had an amazing rookie season in the NHL couple yrs ago. If Tinordi is so great he would be in the NHL by now and dominating.
Paajarvi last season struggled in NHL but continued to develop his game in the AHL.
He worked on his physical game and on offense (slapper) .

EDM giving up on him now would be stupid. Stop proposing for him if you think he is not going to be a very good NHL player.

Edit: if Ellis is so great then keep him and propose Beaulieu + proposals for Paajarvi.
34 points and a -13 is hardly amazing. He is the new Omark. Sure he has talent but wont be able to stick in the NHL.

Just out of curtiosity what in the world makes you think he has increased his value to be worth Beaulieu+??

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06-27-2012, 06:17 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mahleezer View Post
Don't want MPS at all. Not interested.

He isn't good enough to play a starting role for the crappiest team in the league, what makes you think he's good enough to play for the Habs?
He definitely wasn't going to bump Hall or Smyth out of a spot now was he? Was he the guy that would take the Oilers PP from #3 to #1? I doubt it.

It doesnt look like Smyth will be re-signed, so this camp he'll be coming in for the first time with a chance for a top 6 role.
There's no incentive for the Oilers to trade him for yet another mediocre prospect(who's like Jermie Blain that we decided not to sign) and a pick that maybe will be in the NHL in 4 years

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06-27-2012, 06:27 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I guess if MPS never ever played in the NHL before, he would be considered at 21yo as a blue chip prospect developing very well in the AHL.

But since Edmonton is the crappiest team in the league and he had the chance to see a good deal of experience in the NHL, he is now considered less valuable than a medium prospect.

Come on, MPS is not a Esposito. MPS is among the most underrated player category of all: young player (23yo or less) playing in the league but not producing.

Tinordi in comparaison is playing in the Junior.

Just inverse their role, put Tinordi in the NHL and MPS in the OHL then MPS would become a high prized blue chip prospect., while Tinordi would look like a bust.
A) Tinordi is younger.

B) Tinordi is a Defenseman and they take longer to develop, everyone knows this.

C) No way you're getting Tinordi for MPS

All I'm trying to say is that it is a foregone conclusion that MPS is now the skapegoat and will probably be in every proposal regarding defence comming back to the Oil.

Don't misunderstand me, I like the oilers I think they can be a fun team to watch... it's their Management I can't stand.

If I were an Oiler fan I'd be depressed. I mean when the only thing you have to look forward to is the draft after a couple years I'd start wanting results.

I mean the Oilers, Leafs and Islanders just don't seem to know what they are doing.
A team can't be that bad that long. When that happens changes occur.
At this point this is no longer a coaching issue... GM's need to be fired and replaced.

I mean Leafs fans are starting to get fed up and want Burke gone.
Habs on the other hand didn't even wait... one bad season = spring cleaning.

Oilers however have the same management in place for what seams forever and there is no progression.

I feel for you guys though.


Last edited by Mahleezer: 06-27-2012 at 06:36 PM.
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06-27-2012, 06:33 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Whoyawit View Post
While I am somewhat inclined to agree with your thoughts, I'm not convinced Hemsky will be playing in our top 6 - at least not full time.

Hall RNH Eberle
PRV Gagner Yakupov
TBD Horcoff Hemsky

I think you get my point. The Oilers will not trade PRV unless he's part of a package that brings the team a much needed stud dman - if he's not moved I don't see a scenario where he doesn't play top 6 minutes.
Either Hemsky or MPS will get moved, and imo whoever they see expendable will get the top 6 minutes to try to boost his trade value.

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06-27-2012, 06:38 PM
  #65
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This would be the worst time for the Oilers to trade MPS.

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06-27-2012, 07:45 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Paajarvi had an amazing rookie season in the NHL couple yrs ago. If Tinordi is so great he would be in the NHL by now and dominating.
Paajarvi last season struggled in NHL but continued to develop his game in the AHL.
He worked on his physical game and on offense (slapper) .

EDM giving up on him now would be stupid. Stop proposing for him if you think he is not going to be a very good NHL player.

Edit: if Ellis is so great then keep him and propose Beaulieu + proposals for Paajarvi.
No GM. in there right mind would offer Beaulieu alone for Paajarvi let alone add.Tinordi is also out of the question.
The best i seen so far was Ellis,Weber and a Habs 5th which IMO is a slight overpayment by the Habs but worth the rick because of our D prospect depth in Tinordi and Beaulieu.

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06-27-2012, 07:56 PM
  #67
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34 points and a -13 is hardly amazing. He is the new Omark. Sure he has talent but wont be able to stick in the NHL.

Just out of curtiosity what in the world makes you think he has increased his value to be worth Beaulieu+??


He is the new omark is so stupid its hilarious.
I guess when you play nothing alike, have completely different body types and skill sets, are different ages etc you are the new Omark because your swedish?

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06-27-2012, 07:59 PM
  #68
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No thanks, I really don't want MPS, especially at the cost of one of our good defensive prospects that we put so much time into. MPS was rushed and it shows.

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06-27-2012, 08:07 PM
  #69
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Bournival + Tinordi for Paajarvi + Musil

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06-27-2012, 08:18 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Bournival + Tinordi for Paajarvi + Musil


Really have no interest in MPS.

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06-27-2012, 08:22 PM
  #71
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Not worth asking price for Montreal. We're only restocking prospect depth now and giving multiple pieces for a question mark doesn't work for me.

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06-27-2012, 08:34 PM
  #72
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even though a hab fan started this proposal, based on what tinordi WILL bring = he's an untouchable. promise. He's EXACTLY what habs need. far, far more than MPS

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06-27-2012, 09:01 PM
  #73
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People are forgetting that it's not what the player worth, but what would the Habs be willing to pay and what would the Oilers want. Their not going to take scraps and the Habs are not going to trade their blue chip prospects. So agree to disagree, and leave it at that. The Oilers are still very high on MPS and would take a extreme over payment to pry him out of Edmonton. He had a problem with his offensive game, but he was still a excellent defensive player and drew the other teams in taking over 1 penalty per game. IMO it would take at least one of the Habs blue chip prospect D+ before the Oilers would think about it and they would still pass because they like him that much.

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06-27-2012, 09:22 PM
  #74
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People are forgetting that it's not what the player worth, but what would the Habs be willing to pay and what would the Oilers want. Their not going to take scraps and the Habs are not going to trade their blue chip prospects. So agree to disagree, and leave it at that. The Oilers are still very high on MPS and would take a extreme over payment to pry him out of Edmonton. He had a problem with his offensive game, but he was still a excellent defensive player and drew the other teams in taking over 1 penalty per game. IMO it would take at least one of the Habs blue chip prospect D+ before the Oilers would think about it and they would still pass because they like him that much.
Like you said ...and the Habs are not going to trade their blue chip prospects.
We are not overly interrested nor do we like him that much.
We will keep our Blue chip prospects+.

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06-27-2012, 10:42 PM
  #75
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He is the new omark is so stupid its hilarious.
I guess when you play nothing alike, have completely different body types and skill sets, are different ages etc you are the new Omark because your swedish?

nope, it has nothing to do with any of those reasons. Its because they have talent but cant stick in the NHL.

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