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Old
06-29-2012, 11:57 AM
  #176
JMcLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Swag View Post
Much much rather have Mueller centering Kessel and Lupul than Connolly for that kind of money.
Or we could have him centering them for 1.5-2mil less

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06-29-2012, 11:58 AM
  #177
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I like the Mueller idea specially with his history with Kessel. Perfect move. He still has potential.

Lupul - Mueller - Kessel
Kulemin - Grabovski - JVR
MacArthur - Bozak - Kadri
Brown - Steckel - Armstrong?

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06-29-2012, 12:00 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by JMcLeaf View Post
Or we could have him centering them for 1.5-2mil less
IMO Mueller can totally break out next year and score 70 points, he has the potential to do just that. And when he does, a 4.5 mil cap hit will look like highway robbery.

Or we could sign him for 3 mil in a 1 year deal, watch him light the world on fire, then have to entertain 6 mil per year contract discussions

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06-29-2012, 12:01 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
I like the Mueller idea specially with his history with Kessel. Perfect move. He still has potential.

Lupul - Mueller - Kessel
Kulemin - Grabovski - JVR
MacArthur - Bozak - Kadri
Brown - Steckel - Armstrong?
Id be pretty surprised if Carlyle put Kadri on the team over Frattin, unless Kadri is amazing in training camp. Especially on the 3rd line. But im expecting and hoping Mac to be traded so I see this:

Lupul-Mueller-Kessel
JVR-Grabo-Kadri
Kulemin-Bozak-Frattin
Brown-Steckel-Armstrong
Komarov

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06-29-2012, 12:04 PM
  #180
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I'd be very happy if the Leafs were able to land Mueller this off season

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06-29-2012, 12:04 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
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PS: 6 of Leafs 12 current forwards (50%) are American, and 3 of 6 dmen (50%) are American so that is 9 roster players on the team.. Lets see you match the 2 X as many Canadians claim. I dare you
Gladly:

Players that have been drafted, traded for, and signed as a free agent by Burke:

American players:

Phil Kessel
JVR
Tim Connolly
Mike Brown
David Steckel
Jake Gardiner
JML
Mike Komisarek
Joey Crabb
Tyler Biggs
Jerry D'Amigo
Max Everson
Eric Knodel
Tony Cameranesi
Dominic Tonniato
Kenny Ryan

TOTAL NUMBER OF PLAYERS: 16


Canadian players:

Joffrey Lupul
Dion Phaneuf
Tyler Bozak
Colby Armstrong
Nazem Kadri
Clarke MacArthur
Jay Rosehill
Cody Franson
Matthew Lombardi
Luca Caputi
Ben Scrivens
Stuart Percy
Morgan Rielly
David Broll
Brad Ross
Josh Leivo
Jesse Blacker
Jamie Devane
Joe Colborne
Tyler Brenner
Garrett Sparks
Sam Carrick
Andrew Creczenzi
Nichloas Deschamps
Ryan Hamilton
Greg McKegg
Mike Zigomanis
Spencer Abbott
Dennis Robertson
Simon Gysbers
Phillip Dupuis


TOTAL NUMBER OF PLAYERS: 31



Sorry, I was 1 player off.


PS: If I'm missing anyone, please feel free to let me know. But if I am, it's probably only 1 or 2 players at the most.

PPS: I forgot about both Carter Ashton and Keith Aulie. Makes that officially over 2x the amount of Canadians for every 1 American player on the Leafs and in the system.


Last edited by Darkhorse1280: 06-29-2012 at 12:11 PM.
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Old
06-29-2012, 12:05 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
PS: 6 of Leafs 12 current forwards (50%) are American (Kessel, JVR, Connolly, Brown, Steckel & Crabb), and 3 of 6 dmen (50%) (Liles, Komisarek & Gardiner) are American so that is 9 roster players all acquired by Burke on the team.. Lets see you match the 2 X as many Canadians claim. I dare you, considering a NHL team consists of 23 max players and you would need 18 Canadians to prove your point making it a 27 man squad even if every other player was Canadian.
He can match them in his own terms Mess. Each American players you are talking about can be easily replaced with our CANADIAN prospect for their potential. Every spot aside from the right side, even though that may change depending on how great Ashton turns out (likely a second line Powerforward).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Kadri and Colborne better watch out, keep looking over their shoulders at young American's Jerry D' Amigo and Tyler Biggs coming to take their spots.

I'm on board with a Mueller signing, I've always liked his potential and he is worth the risk, if the money is befitting the gamble and that he can hopefully overcome his concussion and injury history problems of the past to realize that potential. This is a "free wallet" I would pick up and see what was inside.
Kadri and Colborne are prospects that are going to be fighting for the top six. Biggs realistically is going to be fighting for a third line role or to be a fringe second liner, unless this year he proves in the OHL with the Gens that he can be more than just a third liner with scoring capabilities and intangibles. D'Amigo is a dark horse to make out of the camp for the bottom six if at all for the fourth line duties to be an energy player who is an excellent addition for the PK. Kadri on the other hand is going to be given a chance for the wall in the top six, hopefully macarthur moves so his spot is solidified. OR the center, and he can play both Powerplay and Penalty kill. Burke has stated, "he is smart and he'll figure it out" along with colborne. Colborne brings that size in our team although not that meanness. Last year neither D'Amigo or Biggs posed a threat for Kadri, but Matt Frattin another CANADIAN.

Mueller definitely sounds like a signing that could end up like MacArthur for us and I wouldn't be sad to see us dish some money to him so let him prove that he still has it in him.

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06-29-2012, 12:12 PM
  #183
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There are reasons why the Avs didn't qualify him at $2.1 million. He has a worse injury record than even Connolly in recent years, with one productive full season, five years ago. Sure, kick the tires here and see if he will come cheaply. But why offer $9 million over 2 years? Presumably this is one of those, "If he was once a top ten draft choice, he must be worth it" things.

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Old
06-29-2012, 12:13 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse1280 View Post
Gladly:

Players that have been drafted, traded for, and signed as a free agent by Burke:

American players:

Phil Kessel
JVR
Tim Connolly
Mike Brown
David Steckel
Jake Gardiner
JML
Mike Komisarek
Joey Crabb
Tyler Biggs
Jerry D'Amigo
Max Everson
Eric Knodel
Tony Cameranesi
Dominic Tonniato
Kenny Ryan

TOTAL NUMBER OF PLAYERS: 16


Canadian players:

Joffrey Lupul
Dion Phaneuf
Tyler Bozak
Colby Armstrong
Nazem Kadri
Clarke MacArthur
Jay Rosehill
Cody Franson
Matthew Lombardi
Luca Caputi
Ben Scrivens
Stuart Percy
Morgan Rielly
David Broll
Brad Ross
Josh Leivo
Jesse Blacker
Jamie Devane
Joe Colborne
Tyler Brenner
Garrett Sparks
Sam Carrick
Andrew Creczenzi
Nichloas Deschamps
Ryan Hamilton
Greg McKegg
Mike Zigomanis
Spencer Abbott
Dennis Robertson
Simon Gysbers
Phillip Dupuis


TOTAL NUMBER OF PLAYERS: 31



Sorry, I was 1 player off.
But its a stacked argument to begin with because more than 50% of all NHL players and drafted prospects are Canadian born.. Canada produces the most NHL talent, more than all other nations combined.

So your 2 X more argument is based on the fact of >> 50% Canadian talent pool. Where as maybe 20% are US Born players where Leafs have a majority of them on the current team.

Leafs had 9 Americans play on the team last year, so just for fun try and name another NHL team that has that many USA born players in the line-up. I think you will find most NHL teams are made up of a majority of Canadian born players, and/or have some Europeans tossed in.

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Old
06-29-2012, 12:17 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
But its a stacked argument to begin with because more than 50% of all NHL players and drafted prospects are Canadian born.. Canada produces the most NHL talent, more than all other nations combined.

So your 2 X more argument is based on the fact of >> 50% Canadian talent pool. Where as maybe 20% are US Born players where Leafs have a majority of them on the current team.

Leafs had 9 Americans play on the team last year, so just for fun try and name another NHL team that has that many USA born players in the line-up. I think you will find most NHL teams are made up of a majority of Canadian born players, and/or have some Europeans tossed in.
Well if your theory of us being American based then wouldn't half our prospects be from the USNTDP?

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06-29-2012, 12:26 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse1280 View Post
Gladly:

Players that have been drafted, traded for, and signed as a free agent by Burke:

American players:

Phil Kessel
JVR
Tim Connolly
Mike Brown
David Steckel
Jake Gardiner
JML
Mike Komisarek
Joey Crabb
Tyler Biggs
Jerry D'Amigo
Max Everson
Eric Knodel
Tony Cameranesi
Dominic Tonniato
Kenny Ryan

TOTAL NUMBER OF PLAYERS: 16


Canadian players:

Joffrey Lupul
Dion Phaneuf
Tyler Bozak
Colby Armstrong
Nazem Kadri
Clarke MacArthur
Jay Rosehill
Cody Franson
Matthew Lombardi
Luca Caputi
Ben Scrivens
Stuart Percy
Morgan Rielly
David Broll
Brad Ross
Josh Leivo
Jesse Blacker
Jamie Devane
Joe Colborne
Tyler Brenner
Garrett Sparks
Sam Carrick
Andrew Creczenzi
Nichloas Deschamps
Ryan Hamilton
Greg McKegg
Mike Zigomanis
Spencer Abbott
Dennis Robertson
Simon Gysbers
Phillip Dupuis


TOTAL NUMBER OF PLAYERS: 31



Sorry, I was 1 player off.


PS: If I'm missing anyone, please feel free to let me know. But if I am, it's probably only 1 or 2 players at the most.

PPS: I forgot about both Carter Ashton and Keith Aulie. Makes that officially over 2x the amount of Canadians for every 1 American player on the Leafs and in the system.
Hate to disagree with you but Garrett Sparks is an americano

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06-29-2012, 12:27 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
But its a stacked argument to begin with because more than 50% of all NHL players and drafted prospects are Canadian born.. Canada produces the most NHL talent, more than all other nations combined.

So your 2 X more argument is based on the fact of >> 50% Canadian talent pool. Where as maybe 20% are US Born players where Leafs have a majority of them on the current team.

Leafs had 9 Americans play on the team last year, so just for fun try and name another NHL team that has that many USA born players in the line-up. I think you will find most NHL teams are made up of a majority of Canadian born players, and/or have some Europeans tossed in.
Do we really need to count Joey Crabb in this discussion? Because he was merely just keeping a spot warm for either Kadri, Frattin, or Colborne.

You can take out Rosehill to support your argument if you want.

So let's say 8 Americans on the Leafs.

The Rangers have 10 Americans, LA also have 8 and NJ has 7.

So, no we don't have the most Americans out of any other team in the league.

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06-29-2012, 12:29 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Tnk 4 Frk 2012 View Post
Hate to disagree with you but Garrett Sparks is an americano
Touche.

So 17 Americans and 32 Canadians in total then. (Ashton and Aulie included)

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06-29-2012, 12:34 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Well if your theory of us being American based then wouldn't half our prospects be from the USNTDP?
The US National Development Team Program is only essentially a single team that selects the top US born athletes to develop in their program, and they play against the USHL other teams but form the basis of the National U-18 and U-20 teams. Kessel, JVR, Biggs, D'Amigo, Ryan etc are all USNDTP grads so the Leafs are well represented here.

That is like saying half our Canadian prospects should come from the London Knights or Prince George Cougars or St. Johns Sea Dogs etc of the CHL.

The OHL itself alone because of population density produces the most NHL talent for all teams, as it has more players drafted each year >> most other countries and it only represents 1 of 3 CHL leagues and even excludes all the tier II Canadian kids as well. That makes the OHL not even the majority of Canadian born kids overall talent pool.

Saying Toronto drafts Canadians is like saying they draft from the highest concentration of NHL talent pool, which should happen by default alone because of the volume numbers Canadian kids represent of over 50% of NHLers. So if there are 1000 NHL players 500 or more are Canadian born. Be pretty hard to not be heavily Canadian based for any team.

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06-29-2012, 12:50 PM
  #190
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I will say one thing....if Brodeur makes it to free agency, and is going to field offers then Gillis may therefore have no choice but to drop his price, he would be a fool to keep Luongo after Schneiders signing...you guys want Bukes head....imagine if your a Vancouver fan and he keeps Luongo out of being stubborn ! Also NJ is nearly bankrupt, and may leave them little choice, should Brodeur want to play another year or two...which its looking like he does as he has hired super agent Pat Brisson to rep him. Im hoping he goes to free agency...though there is no way the leafs would get him as Brodeur would want to go to a cup contender and finish his HHOF career with another cup, we may get our #1 goalie in Luongo at a low enough price that Burke will pull the trigger !

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06-29-2012, 12:54 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by jrgtml67 View Post
I will say one thing....if Brodeur makes it to free agency, and is going to field offers then Gillis may therefore have no choice but to drop his price, he would be a fool to keep Luongo after Schneiders signing...you guys want Bukes head....imagine if your a Vancouver fan and he keeps Luongo out of being stubborn ! Also NJ is nearly bankrupt, and may leave them little choice, should Brodeur want to play another year or two...which its looking like he does as he has hired super agent Pat Brisson to rep him. Im hoping he goes to free agency...though there is no way the leafs would get him as Brodeur would want to go to a cup contender and finish his HHOF career with another cup, we may get our #1 goalie in Luongo at a low enough price that Burke will pull the trigger !
One thing you have to consider is Brodeur is going to want to be a number one goalie, he isn't going to want to sign elsewhere to back someone up. The list of stanely cup contending teams without a number 1 is a lot smaller. Somewhere like Chicago or San Jose come to mind (I am sure a lot of you can come up with more teams off the top of your head, just making an example).

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06-29-2012, 01:02 PM
  #192
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prejudice and bigotry is typically not accepted in society, unless you're taking a shot at the leafs and the number of Americans we have

the fact that mods let this crap permeate on a half respectable forum is sickening

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06-29-2012, 01:05 PM
  #193
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prejudice and bigotry is typically not accepted in society, unless you're taking a shot at the leafs and the number of Americans we have

the fact that mods let this crap permeate on a half respectable forum is sickening
And encourage it!

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06-29-2012, 01:06 PM
  #194
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One thing you have to consider is Brodeur is going to want to be a number one goalie, he isn't going to want to sign elsewhere to back someone up. The list of stanely cup contending teams without a number 1 is a lot smaller. Somewhere like Chicago or San Jose come to mind (I am sure a lot of you can come up with more teams off the top of your head, just making an example).
You think so? At his age, surely he has to be aware he'll not be able to handle the majority of starts.

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06-29-2012, 01:09 PM
  #195
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Lots of GMs like to bring in players they are familar with, Burke happens to be familiar with alot of Americans because of his various roles with USA hockey. I don't think of a case where Burke chooses 1 player over another because they are American.

It's a non-issue that certain posters like to bring up as a negative because it fits in with a pre-existing agenda with regards to the GM.

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06-29-2012, 01:10 PM
  #196
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And encourage it!
Some might say they lead the charge.

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06-29-2012, 01:54 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The US National Development Team Program is only essentially a single team that selects the top US born athletes to develop in their program, Aand they play against the USHL other teams but form the basis of the National U-18 and U-20 teams. Kessel, JVR, Biggs, D'Amigo, Ryan etc are all USNDTP grads so the Leafs are well represented here.

That is like saying half our Canadian prospects should come from the London Knights or Prince George Cougars or St. Johns Sea Dogs etc of the CHL.

The OHL itself alone because of population density produces the most NHL talent for all teams, as it has more players drafted each year >> most other countries and it only represents 1 of 3 CHL leagues and even excludes all the tier II Canadian kids as well. That makes the OHL not even the majority of Canadian born kids overall talent pool.

Saying Toronto drafts Canadians is like saying they draft from the highest concentration of NHL talent pool, which should happen by default alone because of the volume numbers Canadian kids represent of over 50% of NHLers. So if there are 1000 NHL players 500 or more are Canadian born. Be pretty hard to not be heavily Canadian based for any team.
You are just fighting your own argument now Mess. You are stating that we are stretching out our team plan into an American Filled one. So if we are truly trying to implant this American face or whatever wouldn't we have only drafted from the US College programs or high schools? I stated the wrong program, my bad. So if we are truly grasping the concept you are stating, then we should have only drafted from High schools from the states, and the USHL right? Instead of drafting Rielly we should have drafted Trouba, instead of Kadri, we should have drafted Moore wouldn't we have?

I really don't need to know much about OHL facts because I know hockey is a religion so to speak in Ontario. Hence the OHL system thrives so much and we produces that good - great hockey players. All I am stating is that if this American Disease or American Filled team is supposedly the intention of Burke then we shouldn't only drafted players like Dominic Tonato from this draft? Or Tony from last year?

Also, while our organization's Brainchild is Headed by Burke, The American. Our Assistant GM, Dave Nonis, a Canadian. Our Ex-Assistant GM, Rick Dudley is also Canadian. Another Assistant GM is Claude Louiselle, another Canadian. Our Head of scout is still a Canadian, Dave Morrisson. Steve Staios another Canadian just joined our organization for Hockey-OPs. Saying Toronto is an American filled team is like saying Canadien fans don't want a french coach and they are going to have a full out French filled team.

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06-29-2012, 02:04 PM
  #198
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Also does it really matter to you if this team gets american help to get lord stanley? I mean seriously? The best goalie atm who just oozes of potential is Jonathan Quick, and was captained by Dustin Brown. You are telling me you would refuse those players because this place is getting to American filled?

Hell if I could get a guy who doesn't speak english and becomes the next evengi malkin or sidney crosby I'd add him into my team and hope like hell he wins me the cup. I am not going to be complain.

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06-29-2012, 02:07 PM
  #199
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I'd be very happy if the Leafs were able to land Mueller this off season
They probably could have had him for the proverbial bag of pucks.

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06-29-2012, 02:19 PM
  #200
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They probably could have had him for the proverbial bag of pucks.
Realistically they weren't looking to get him from the avalanche via trade, as we would have to give up something. Likely a young winger for their center core. Now we just throw cash I guess. He showed good chemistry with Stastny at times too.

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