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Justin Schultz Discussion Part III (MOD WARNING #482)

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Old
06-28-2012, 10:29 AM
  #751
Lonny Bohonos
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Originally Posted by Spezzator View Post
Situations aren't identical, no, but at the end of the day both were/are players doing what they want for themselves and their careers. Schultz is operating on no higher a ground than Hodgdson was. At least Hodgson sucked it up, bid his time somewhat and gave the Canucks a chance by playing a season and a half before then making his demands and being unreasonable.
Drafting someone =\= agreement.

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06-28-2012, 10:33 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Spezzator View Post
Situations aren't identical, no, but at the end of the day both were/are players doing what they want for themselves and their careers. Schultz is operating on no higher a ground than Hodgdson was. At least Hodgson sucked it up, bid his time somewhat and gave the Canucks a chance by playing a season and a half before then making his demands and being unreasonable.
Except that Schultz has never signed a contract he should have lived up to. Most people's problem with Hodgson is that his issues became very high maintenance and took away from the team's performance, and eventually forced them to make a substantial trade that derailed the make-up of their team. He forced the Canucks' hands going into the stretch run. You can see how that would piss a fan that has watched him develop and become part of the team. Canucks invested a lot into Hodgson.

I don't see them as similar at all. Schultz is taking advantage of a loophole and choosing where he starts his professional career. Hodgson demanded more ice-time and a bigger role he hadn't earned on a contending team headed down the stretch. I don't think Canucks fans have the right to hate him per se, but I think it's more logical than being spiteful towards Schultz at this point.

Hodgson's actions (well his dad and agent's) were DIRECTLY detrimental to the Canucks. Not plausibly detrimental as Schultz's actions are to the Ducks.

Anyway, hopefully once Schultz signs people can be mature about it and let it go. I understand how people would be upset in both situations. Canucks fans are over it and Ducks fans will be too.

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06-28-2012, 10:34 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Bill Sweatt was a 2007 2nd round pick, Schultz a 2008 2nd round pick.

Sweatt even had his rights traded.
Cool, so the team that did draft him get something in return. They must be quite a bit less unhappy than the Ducks. He also was a far inferior prospect. That tends to not be in the draft position itself.

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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
It should take away, people are acting like Schultz has or is setting a precedent here...this has been done before, and as long as the loophole in the CBA is present, I would bank on it happening again.
It doesn't matter. People have betrayed others and will likely do so again. It doesn't set any precedents, yet people are farily certain they don't like it as a character reference.

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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
People sitting in here ragging on this kids character like he is the first kid to ever do this, need to realize this isn't the first time it's happened, and quit the character assassination BS they are trying to pull.
What's weak is not simply him taking the road (as a few others have). It's how he did it. He assassinated his character quite fine in handling things the way he did.


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Originally Posted by Nucks N Canes View Post
Schultz obviously did not want to risk playing on a lottery team for management he didnt respect.
You are really not helping his case, at all. He is currently in more discussion with lottery teams than he would have found in Anaheim. If the 22 year-old with zero professional hockey games judges which NHL front office to respect, his character would be much worse than we can give him credit for right now.

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06-28-2012, 10:34 AM
  #754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezzator View Post
Situations aren't identical, no, but at the end of the day both were/are players doing what they want for themselves and their careers. Schultz is operating on no higher a ground than Hodgdson was. At least Hodgson sucked it up, bid his time somewhat and gave the Canucks a chance by playing a season and a half before then making his demands and being unreasonable.
Totally different situation, Cody could not have become a FA.

I think Cody is a great talent that at this point has a father that wants too much of a say. If you really look at all the facts in his situation, at some point you would have to say hey kid shut up and play.

Justin had a chance to go to whatever club he wanted to period. He has yet to be a negative person in anything. Maybe he will become one, but at this point he is simply exercising his right to become a UFA. Don't hate the player, hate the stupid rule. I think it is a rule that should be changed, and believe it will be in the new CBA.

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06-28-2012, 10:34 AM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Outside of the fact that the Rangers are not in Canada, they are the right fit.

They are a contender and based on the age of the roster, should be for years to come
They have a need in their top 4 for a RHD
They need a PP QB with a right handed shot
There is plenty of money for future contracts and endorsements
They are an original six team (which matters to some)
They have two Badgers on the roster who played with Schultz

Take out the fact that they are too far south and there is no hole in their pitch to the kid.
However the NYR fan base is extremely proud and loyal ... not a bad organization to play for.

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06-28-2012, 10:36 AM
  #756
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I don't think anyone including TSN has a clue. There have been conflicting reports about who's on the list and who's talked to who every day. When a team official confirms that they've spoken to him I'll believe it otherwise I'll take anything with a grain of salt.

I'd like to add that this is getting pretty tiresome. His agents should have come up with a list before the talking period began and told teams. This business of having entire management groups waiting to speak with them is ridiculous. This is a busy time of year. They should show a little more courtesy.

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06-28-2012, 10:39 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
I don't think anyone including TSN has a clue. There have been conflicting reports about who's on the list and who's talked to who every day. When a team official confirms that they've spoken to him I'll believe it otherwise I'll take anything with a grain of salt.

I'd like to add that this is getting pretty tiresome. His agents should have come up with a list before the talking period began and told teams. This business of having entire management groups waiting to speak with them is ridiculous. This is a busy time of year. They should show a little more courtesy.
Bob said yesterday that all teams in the mix for Schultz were being very tight lipped, likely at the request of the Schultz camp. I doubt you will hear anything official from the Schultz camp or any of the teams on his short list until his decision is publicly announced.

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06-28-2012, 10:39 AM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
I don't think anyone including TSN has a clue. There have been conflicting reports about who's on the list and who's talked to who every day. When a team official confirms that they've spoken to him I'll believe it otherwise I'll take anything with a grain of salt.

I'd like to add that this is getting pretty tiresome. His agents should have come up with a list before the talking period began and told teams. This business of having entire management groups waiting to speak with them is ridiculous. This is a busy time of year. They should show a little more courtesy.
While I would generally agree, the time of year isn't THAT busy. Many GMs are just biding their time until July 1st.

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06-28-2012, 10:39 AM
  #759
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hmmm ok well first off I am as excited as everyone else to see where this guy signs, cuz i think he is a great player.... but really? refusing to sign with the team that drafted him, and now holding interviews from other teams to see who can make the biggest pitch for him..... a 21 year old that hasnt played a game in NHL, AHL or even major junior.... Just seems kinda Eric Lindros-ish haha
He found a loophole that makes him a free agent. Players have no idea how long their careers are going to be (just ask Keith Gretzky), why not take the opportunity to maximize their payoff?

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06-28-2012, 10:39 AM
  #760
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
I don't think anyone including TSN has a clue. There have been conflicting reports about who's on the list and who's talked to who every day. When a team official confirms that they've spoken to him I'll believe it otherwise I'll take anything with a grain of salt.

I'd like to add that this is getting pretty tiresome. His agents should have come up with a list before the talking period began and told teams. This business of having entire management groups waiting to speak with them is ridiculous. This is a busy time of year. They should show a little more courtesy.
I know. Who does he think he is? Lebron? There is no way anyone would believe that these interviews are going to vault a team he didn't consider into contention. If you want to make it seem like he's conflicted about the team so tampering charges would not be successful, pick 5 or something. He can't possibly be conflicted about playing for every team in the league.

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06-28-2012, 10:39 AM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Drafting someone =\= agreement.
NCAA players cannot go to training camp or accept so much as one dollar from the NHL team that drafted them.

Any form of compensation to an NCAA player immediately ends their eligibility to play in the NCAA.

And no Drafting someone is not an agreement to play for that team, you actually have to sign a contract with a team in order to have an agreement.

Drafting a player means you have exclusive rights of negotiation with that player for a period of time laid out in the CBA.

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06-28-2012, 10:40 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Cool, so the team that did draft him get something in return. They must be quite a bit less unhappy than the Ducks. He also was a far inferior prospect. That tends to not be in the draft position itself.


It doesn't matter. People have betrayed others and will likely do so again. It doesn't set any precedents, yet people are farily certain they don't like it as a character reference.


What's weak is not simply him taking the road (as a few others have). It's how he did it. He assassinated his character quite fine in handling things the way he did.



You are really not helping his case, at all. He is currently in more discussion with lottery teams than he would have found in Anaheim. If the 22 year-old with zero professional hockey games judges which NHL front office to respect, his character would be much worse than we can give him credit for right now.
You're the one "assassinating his character". He did nothing but exercise his right to opt for UFA. Like Bill Sweat, like Tim Erixon.

This whole thread boils down to some upset fans because he's not going to their team. Sour grapes.

Kudos to the kid for exercising his right and perhaps cashing in on millions in bonuses he might not otherwise have gotten.

What if he gets a concussion and never signs another contract? Are you going to pay his bills? No you aren't. He need to look after himself and do what he thinks is right for him. Congrats to him for working his butt off and becoming the type of prospect that everyone wants.

And to you sir -- leave the kid alone -- he's not violating anyones rights, only exercising his. It is a free world, contrary to what some posters think.

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06-28-2012, 10:40 AM
  #763
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i am afraid to even ask and certainly am not going to read the thousands of posts already on the subject, but do we know why he didnt sign with ANA?

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06-28-2012, 10:41 AM
  #764
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Ottawa is included in the list because he wants to be near his buddy Jake Gardiner if things don't work out in Toronto

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06-28-2012, 10:41 AM
  #765
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Haven't been following too much, since I really didn't know who Justin Schultz is. But I hope he is signed then immediately traded to the CBJs in a rick nash deal! That would be too funny.

It's just weird how this guy has never played an NHL game yet teams are lining up to give him a pitch like teams did with Peyton Manning! Just doesn't seem right...

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06-28-2012, 10:42 AM
  #766
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You guys think that Schultz will have an ESPN...errr. TSN/NHLN special? THE DECISION...PART DEUX

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06-28-2012, 10:43 AM
  #767
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Except that Schultz has never signed a contract he should have lived up to. Most people's problem with Hodgson is that his issues became very high maintenance and took away from the team's performance, and eventually forced them to make a substantial trade that derailed the make-up of their team. He forced the Canucks' hands going into the stretch run. You can see how that would piss a fan that has watched him develop and become part of the team. Canucks invested a lot into Hodgson.

I don't see them as similar at all. Schultz is taking advantage of a loophole and choosing where he starts his professional career. Hodgson demanded more ice-time and a bigger role he hadn't earned on a contending team headed down the stretch. I don't think Canucks fans have the right to hate him per se, but I think it's more logical than being spiteful towards Schultz at this point.

Hodgson's actions (well his dad and agent's) were DIRECTLY detrimental to the Canucks. Not plausibly detrimental as Schultz's actions are to the Ducks.

Anyway, hopefully once Schultz signs people can be mature about it and let it go. I understand how people would be upset in both situations. Canucks fans are over it and Ducks fans will be too.
You don't think that team doctors missing a serious injury to Hodgsons back and forcing him to play causing a worsening injury and then calling him out in the media for being soft and weak might have caused some of the issues?

Your stance is a touch hypocritical. Both sides have some of the blame in this situation.

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06-28-2012, 10:44 AM
  #768
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Originally Posted by alpine4life View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=399431


ROCK AND ROLL!
I never thought Ottawa would be in
So its the 5 teams we've been discussing for weeks. Shocking.

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06-28-2012, 10:44 AM
  #769
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Haven't been following too much, since I really didn't know who Justin Schultz is. But I hope he is signed then immediately traded to the CBJs in a rick nash deal! That would be too funny.

It's just weird how this guy has never played an NHL game yet teams are lining up to give him a pitch like teams did with Peyton Manning! Just doesn't seem right...
And Gilroy. And Brunnstrom.

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06-28-2012, 10:45 AM
  #770
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Maybe a couple of 2nds?
One would have been fine, even. A third. Any pick that even has the chance to turn into an ELC we're not getting out of the pick me made.

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It sucks for Duck fans that he didn't want to sign with you guys, but there are reasons why he may not have wanted to tell the Ducks that in advance. Maybe he wanted to go to UFA and didn't want to have to turn 2 teams down?
So, it's preferrable to not tell the Ducks at all? If he did and they traded him at that point, the acquiring team would know full well what risks they are taking. If he has more loyalty towards a random third team than towards the team that drafted him, that isn't helping him.

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Maybe there are issues in Ducks management that he didn't like(Ryan doesn't seem to be a fan atm). Could be a bunch of things.
He's welcome to clear that up, any day. We'll gladly hear about reasons and look at whether those are respectable. I don't really feel like just assuming there have been reasons that he just doesn't mention for the hell of it, when there's zero indication of that.

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So sure, Duck fans are welcome to rip on Schultz all they like, but they shouldn't expect other fans to really care about their opinion of him.
Ducks fans tend to not bring this up. When others say his character should not be questioned, yeah, we're not going to let this slide just yet, because we know full well that's BS, with all facts we have. If others don't care, fine. Be happy with his talents, but don't tell us he's a great young character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Hodgson's actions (well his dad and agent's) were DIRECTLY detrimental to the Canucks. Not plausibly detrimental as Schultz's actions are to the Ducks.
Plausibly detrimental? It's a 2nd round draft pick and multiple years of restricted-free agency in our organisation gone for nothing (and not fetching any kind of market-fair value) - that's not plausibly detrimental. That's just detrimental.

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06-28-2012, 10:45 AM
  #771
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You guys think that Schultz will have an ESPN...errr. TSN/NHLN special? THE DECISION...PART DEUX
He'll be taking his "talents" to Broadway.

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06-28-2012, 10:46 AM
  #772
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Wow. If you want a better analogy, take this one:
Anaheim is the type of girl that was engaged to a young man who promised to marrry her. Sge made some life decisions trusting that word. She is going to the church at the wedding day, and the guy isn't there, and puts them straight to voicemail when she calls. Then, she has the audacity to tell her family and friends that she has no clue what happened, and that she dares to be kind of mad at the guy. Some time later, the new girlfriend of the guy comes along, and for some reason we may never find out about, her family and friends are trying very hard to tell the girl that got ditched at the altar and hasn't been saying anything in quite a while, that the guy is actually a great man and tell her to "grow up".

To me, that's rather amazing.
Hardly a better analogy. Sydney Crosby is engaged to be married on Sunday with a 11 year 100m+ contract. Justin Schultz went to a few training camps, and met a few times

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06-28-2012, 10:46 AM
  #773
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Or why not like be every other kid in the world and be estatic to be drafted by an NHL team and sign with them and work hard to make the team like every other kid has to.... not look for the free ride to be guarenteed the #1 spot or whatever he's doing.

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06-28-2012, 10:46 AM
  #774
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This isnít Canada vs USA. Itís VAN vs EDM vs TOR vs OTT vs NYR.
Two contenders, one up and coming team, and two teams that are rebuilding...
From what Iíve heard I would say the Canucks are the favourites at this point, Toronto and Edmonton tied, then Ottawa and NYR tied.
I see it this way as well right now

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06-28-2012, 10:46 AM
  #775
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Why would he want to go to NY and compete with Del Zotto, Staal, McDonagh and Girardi for ice time when he could go to Minny, Edmonton, or Calgary and essentially become the best defensemen day 1.

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