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The Calgary Flames Great Debate

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:28 PM
  #1
SickHandsNoShot
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The Calgary Flames Great Debate

All Flame haters are welcome. We need to clear some things up.

All every Flames fan hears day by day, in every thread, is that they need to rebuild. In fact, if you look at a recent thread started: Predict the standings for the 12-13 season. You will notice that probrobly 85% of the predictions have the Flames listed in the bottom 5. Now in my mind, Kipper alone can hold any team in the NHL out of the bottom 5. Let alone Iginla, Tanguay, Cammi, Giordano. (And for some reason, once a Flame player hits 30 they become old and aging?)

Now be it a Flames fan, or anyone else, that puts up a trade proposal for a Flames player, the return is mediocre at best. So what do the Flames gain from giving away assets like that? What is wrong with the Flames trying to make the playoffs? If they can draft well with mid picks, what is the problem? <--(Can we leave Jankowski out of this thread, just to keep it civil)

Can I see some legit answers from people without using the words, Aging, overpaid, or overrated.

Here is the team as it sits:

Tanguay(32)-Cammalleri(30)-Iginla(34)
Glencross(29)-Cervanka(26)-UFA/Stepniak(29)
Baertschi(19)-Backlund(23)-Comeau(26)/Nemisz(22)/UFA
Bouma(22)-Jones(25)-Jackman(30)/Aliu(23)
Stajan(28)

Bouwmeester(28)-Wideman(29)
Giordano(28)-Butler(25)
Smith(27)-Brodie(22)

Kipper(35)
Irving(24)

Honestly, that is a pretty young lineup. 4 Skaters above the age or at the age of 30. Now I understand having any young players in the lineup does not make them good. So what are reasonable expectations for the team scoring?

Tanguay(20-50-70)-Cammi(35-35-70)-Iginla(30-40-70)
Glencross(25-30-55)-Cervanka(20-20-40)-Stepniak(20-20-40)<--Based on last year.
Baertschi(25-30-55)-Backlund(15-25-40)-Comeau/Nemisz(10-10-20)Asuming no UFA.
Bouma(5-10-15)-Jones(10-15-25)-Jackman/Aliu(5-10-15)

Bouwmeester(5-30-35)-Wideman(10-35-45)
Giordano(10-30-40)-Butler(5-15-20)
Smith(5-15-20)-Brodie(5-20-25)

= 260 GF

Would easily be top 5 in goals.

None of these expectations are far over the top. A couple could even be quite low. And in some cases, just unpredictable, ei. Cervanka, 2nd line RW. However based on injuries, personal performances it would likely drop 20-40 goals. That would still likely put them in the top 15. I don't think anything about this is much of a stretch seeing as they went from 7th in GPG, to 25th GPG the last two years. (Heavily influenced by injuries.) Somewhere in the middle is the true offence.

Defensively is the question mark. Just looking at the GA of the last two years, Calgary was at 19th in 10-11, and 14th in the 11-12 season. Depending on other trades, UFA signings I dont expect that to change much. And our goaltending with Kipper will likely stay the same, as Kipper has shown no signs of falling off. Also, if Irving can prove to be a reliable backup, he could help drop the GA a bit.

So what is the rational for thinking the Flames will be a bottom seed team? Maybe a bubble playoff team, but last place is just hating.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:35 PM
  #2
LukeD
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Oh boy, this will end well

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:36 PM
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Your reasonable expectations are unreasonable

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:38 PM
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TOML
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Not bad production for a rookie 3rd liner, eh?

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:38 PM
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The Bored Man
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You expect the Flanes to have seven 20 goal scorers? 55 points from a rookie? Three defenseman with more than thirty points?

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:39 PM
  #6
Ziggy Stardust
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The Flames will be a lottery team yet again. Their bottom six forwards are unproven and they have one of the weakest sets of centers in the league.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:40 PM
  #7
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All of your top 6 score 20 goals? Ok

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:40 PM
  #8
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This won't end well. The problem with the Flames isn't age, it's the age of the two most important players. If Kiprusoff and Iginla were to suddenly trade ages with Nemisz and Irving, the roster stays the exact same in terms of average age, but suddenly, the franchise isn't in a position where a rebuild is necessary.

Flames fans want to see a rebuild but management and ownership won't have it. The team, as it sits now (could change between now and September) is once again poised to finish in that 9th or 10th place spot at the end of the season. I think the Flames have been 'inspired' by the L.A. Kings, without realizing that if they squeak into 8th, their team won't be able to play at nearly the same caliber. Dark days ahead, this much I can acknowledge.

What makes me hopeful is (and you're not gonna believe this) are the team's prospects. They have been developing nicely in the AHL and their respective leagues and when the Flames are eventually forced into their rebuild, they won't be starting from scratch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The Flames will be a lottery team yet again. Their bottom six forwards are unproven and they have one of the weakest sets of centers in the league.
Yet again? The Flames have been a lottery team about zero times.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:41 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickHandsNoShot View Post
Wall of hilarious text
So every single player on your team will score 5+ goals? And your rookie on the third line pots 25?
SEVEN 20 goal scorers?
And you're also stating that these "estimates" may actually be too low?

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:42 PM
  #10
SickHandsNoShot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredMan View Post
You expect the Flanes to have seven 20 goal scorers? 55 points from a rookie? Three defenseman with more than thirty points?
Yes you are right, I said all the Flames players will hit these totals......

Just cause I list someone at 20 goals doesnt mean I dont think it is posible that they score 3 or 4 less. I really only have 3 locks for 20 goals next year. Iggy, Cammi, and GlenX.



"However based on injuries, personal performances it would likely drop 20-40 goals."


Last edited by SickHandsNoShot: 06-27-2012 at 09:47 PM.
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Old
06-27-2012, 09:42 PM
  #11
TOML
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I just don't get the inconsistency in the message.

Announce playoff intensions last season. Then miss the playoffs. Whatever. Then they announce they won't be a cap team this season. Then they give Wideman a mountain of cash. wtf?

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:44 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOML View Post
I just don't get the inconsistency in the message.

Announce playoff intensions last season. Then miss the playoffs. Whatever. Then they announce they won't be a cap team this season. Then they give Wideman a mountain of cash. wtf?
That was only a rumor. Not a fact.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:46 PM
  #13
Vankiller Whale
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Who needs a rebuild? You have Mark Jankowski!
(you said Flames haters welcome)

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06-27-2012, 09:47 PM
  #14
The Bored Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickHandsNoShot View Post
Yes you are right, I said all the Flames players will hit these totals......



"However based on injuries, personal performances it would likely drop 20-40 goals."
So your "reasonable expectations" are "blind, desperate delusions." Gotcha.

I mean, you've got two guys hitting twenty goals while playing third line minutes. Why even write that?

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:49 PM
  #15
SickHandsNoShot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Who needs a rebuild? You have Mark Jankowski!
(you said Flames haters welcome)
I also asked kindly to leave Jankowsi out of this thread so we can keep it civil. Its off to a flying start...

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:50 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredMan View Post
So your "reasonable expectations" are "blind, desperate delusions." Gotcha.

I mean, you've got two guys hitting twenty goals while playing third line minutes. Why even write that?
Yep, a 25-15-10 sure is 2 guys hitting twenty goals on the 3rd line.

Did anyone even read this.

And to all the guys attacking the Baertschi prediction, I based it off the Baertschi thread for next season where the majority of HF posters had similar projections.

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06-27-2012, 09:51 PM
  #17
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This flames fan just doesn't get it.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:51 PM
  #18
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So the Flames are going to go from 199 goals this past season...to 260 goals next. And even in your "Well, with injuries..." prediction, you have them jumping 30 goals for no apparent reason.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:53 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The Flames will be a lottery team yet again. Their bottom six forwards are unproven and they have one of the weakest sets of centers in the league.
You clearly don't know what that is.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:53 PM
  #20
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260 goals from a team that could barely score last year.

Feaster is spiking the KoolAid.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:55 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
So the Flames are going to go from 199 goals this past season...to 260 goals next. And even in your "Well, with injuries..." prediction, you have them jumping 30 goals for no apparent reason.
Ya, and they scored 241 the year before that. Somehow they droped 42 goals for no apparent reason? Or maybe, Injuries had something to do with it?

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06-27-2012, 09:55 PM
  #22
The Bored Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickHandsNoShot View Post
Yep, a 25-15-10 sure is 2 guys hitting twenty goals on the 3rd line.

Did anyone even read this.

And to all the guys attacking the Baertschi prediction, I based it off the Baertschi thread for next season where the majority of HF posters had similar projections.
My mistake, HF's mobile version messed the formatting of your post.

Go on, though. Explain how the addition of Bartschi and the fearsome Roman Cervanka will boost Calgary's offense by 60 goals.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:55 PM
  #23
OilerTyler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
You clearly don't know what that is.
The Flames were in the lottery this year.

They had a 0.5% chance of winning.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:56 PM
  #24
TheHudlinator
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You have some vast over estimations, Cammy is more likely to be a 30 goal scorer, Cervenka is a wild card can't really estimate him, I doubt Sven gets more than 15 goals, Jones, Smith, and Brodie are also overestimated.

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Old
06-27-2012, 09:56 PM
  #25
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What's the end goal?

A Cup? Now? Soon? That isn't going to happen. Not on paper OR ice.

A Cup in the future? How? Not with that mess of a farm system and a record of poor to middling drafting.

They aren't good enough to compete with the best, and aren't in a position to get the players necessary to do so via free agency or the draft. It's a hopeless, pointless exercise in wasted money and time.

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