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Old
03-17-2013, 06:01 PM
  #826
dnicks17
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I can already see this organization letting Smid walk to UFA to open a spot on the top pairing for a 20 year old defenseman who's barely played 50 games in the last two years.

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03-17-2013, 06:07 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I can already see this organization letting Smid walk to UFA to open a spot on the top pairing for a 20 year old defenseman who's barely played 50 games in the last two years.
Is that not the Oiler's MO.
Trade Gilbert because Petry is there
Trade Brodziak because MAP needs to play
I'm sure there are more but thats just in last couple of years. They will trade Hemsky because having Yak makes him expendable. This organization would rather gift(trading Smid) icetime for someone like Klefbom then letting him maturate in the minors and earn his NHL icetime. Its a joke but they do it over and over again.

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03-17-2013, 06:25 PM
  #828
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
Tell that to Brodin, Karlsson, OEL, Hedman, and Larsson.
While guys like Tim Erixon and David Runblad are still splitting time in the AHL.

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03-17-2013, 06:33 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I can already see this organization letting Smid walk to UFA to open a spot on the top pairing for a 20 year old defenseman who's barely played 50 games in the last two years.
yup, its this management's MO, that's for sure... their completely unfounded love for youth is comical.... we've seen it over and over and over and over again... letting a legit NHLer walk because they needed to "open up space" for a raw rookie to get ice time... even though they have no idea whether that rookie is even ready for the ice time

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03-17-2013, 06:45 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
While guys like Tim Erixon and David Runblad are still splitting time in the AHL.
I believe Erixon could make an NHL team, but CLB has a decent d core and lots of young talent on D.

Runblad was always considered a offensive defenseman with huge holes on D. Klefbom doesnt have those same concerns

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03-17-2013, 06:51 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by dixs35 View Post
Is that not the Oiler's MO.
Trade Gilbert because Petry is there
Trade Brodziak because MAP needs to play
I'm sure there are more but thats just in last couple of years. They will trade Hemsky because having Yak makes him expendable. This organization would rather gift(trading Smid) icetime for someone like Klefbom then letting him maturate in the minors and earn his NHL icetime. Its a joke but they do it over and over again.
Would you prefer to overpay Smid to have him stay here?

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03-17-2013, 07:04 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Would you prefer to overpay Smid to have him stay here?
I'm not advocating an overpay. If he wants north of 3.5 move him, but they better have a contingency plan who is an actual NHLer. I wouldn't mind overpaying to sign a guy on a one year contract, but I just don't want to see them bring in Klefbom and call it a day. Even if they sign Whitney to a one year show me deal I would be okay with that. Management just can't move Whitney and Smid then replace them with Klefbom and whatever prospect they get in one of those trades.

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03-18-2013, 03:38 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
I believe Erixon could make an NHL team, but CLB has a decent d core and lots of young talent on D.

Runblad was always considered a offensive defenseman with huge holes on D. Klefbom doesnt have those same concerns
I thought Erixon was plying on Columbus 2nd pair?

I am not saying that every young Swede jumps right into their respective teams line up. There are many examples of players who started out in the AHL, or at least splitting time in AHL (for example Erik Karlsson and Oliver Ekman-Larsson). Rundblad is a different thing though, he was basically playing as an extra forward in the SEL and that kind of behavior never works out over here so he was a lock for the AHL. Despite his huge upside (imo) as an offensive d-man he still far from a lock on any NHL team. I'd still like to have him here though, I think that a player with that potential is worth the risk of having a bust on your hands.

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03-18-2013, 06:34 AM
  #834
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yup, its this management's MO, that's for sure... their completely unfounded love for youth is comical.... we've seen it over and over and over and over again... letting a legit NHLer walk because they needed to "open up space" for a raw rookie to get ice time... even though they have no idea whether that rookie is even ready for the ice time
I don't think this is really the case. They have never let anyone of the calibre of Smid walk to open up a spot for a rookie. It would be tough to argue that any of Hall, RNH, Gagner, Eberle, Yakupov or Schultz was handed a spot they did not deserve.

Nilsson and Cogliano started with Gagner. Nilsson had alrady played two years in the AHL and was coming off a 66 point season. Cogliano was 5th in scoring on the Oilers in his rookie year. And I doubt that they let anyone significant walk to find him a spot.

Omark started his career in OKC. Paajarvi had a fantastic camp and had a solid rookie year, but even if he perhaps should have been in OKC which legit NHL'er got the boot to free up a spot for him. Pisani? MAP?

Petry started in OKC as well and moved to the big club as an injury call-up.

Lander should have been in the AHL last year. But even then who did they let walk? Colin Fraser is the guy who's spot he took.

One could argue that they could have upgraded the vets, but I don't really see that much in the way of inappropriate use of the youth.


Last edited by Fourier: 03-18-2013 at 07:02 AM.
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Old
03-18-2013, 08:47 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Would you prefer to overpay Smid to have him stay here?
i love how you just assume they will have to overpay smid... what are you basing this on?

by all accounts he loves edmonton and wants to stay here rather badly... i'm not saying the guy is gonna sign for 2 million/year or anything, but something in the 3-3.25 range seems more than fair

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03-18-2013, 10:24 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
i love how you just assume they will have to overpay smid... what are you basing this on?

by all accounts he loves edmonton and wants to stay here rather badly... i'm not saying the guy is gonna sign for 2 million/year or anything, but something in the 3-3.25 range seems more than fair
Who was the last player to give the Oilers a hometown discount? Horcoff ? Hemsky?

The Oilers overpay everyone, it's just the way they roll.

I say cut Smid loose if he doesn't want to sign a reasonable contract. Either way you can't win cutting guys like that loose, but you can't win signing stupid contracts. Hich way are you handcuffed less?

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03-18-2013, 10:46 AM
  #837
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Originally Posted by Gone View Post
Who was the last player to give the Oilers a hometown discount? Horcoff ? Hemsky?

The Oilers overpay everyone, it's just the way they roll.

I say cut Smid loose if he doesn't want to sign a reasonable contract. Either way you can't win cutting guys like that loose, but you can't win signing stupid contracts. Hich way are you handcuffed less?
True, that hole it would create on the blueline would likely have no affect on the team.

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03-18-2013, 11:51 AM
  #838
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The Hall, Eberle and Hemsky extensions coupled with the new salary cap really ****s the team over.

Setting the precedence for all the kids at 6 mil isn't bad, but it isn't good. Signing a second line player for 5 mil is terrible. There's no way Gagner should or will take less than Hemsky makes, so we dug ourselves a nice grave there with that contract. Also, when Yakupov ends up being better than Eberle, which he will, he'll command more than 6 mil.

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03-18-2013, 11:53 AM
  #839
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As for Smid, if we let him go, we will almost officially be the Florida Panthers.

Developing a guy for seven years and letting him go because he's entering his prime, in favour of a rookie is laughable.

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03-18-2013, 01:04 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
As for Smid, if we let him go, we will almost officially be the Florida Panthers.

Developing a guy for seven years and letting him go because he's entering his prime, in favour of a rookie is laughable.
These are the things loser organizations do all the time. We deal with the growing pains and finally start reaping the rewards then we let him go. I've always been against dealing Gagner for the same reason.

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03-18-2013, 01:16 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
The Hall, Eberle and Hemsky extensions coupled with the new salary cap really ****s the team over.

Setting the precedence for all the kids at 6 mil isn't bad, but it isn't good. Signing a second line player for 5 mil is terrible. There's no way Gagner should or will take less than Hemsky makes, so we dug ourselves a nice grave there with that contract. Also, when Yakupov ends up being better than Eberle, which he will, he'll command more than 6 mil.
The Hemsky deal doesn't hurt much at all, it only goes for one more year.
Hall is well worth his contract and once Hall signed, it was inevitable that his BFF was going to get signed to similar numbers especially coming off a 34 goal PPG season. Tambellini identified them as core players and paid them as such. I'm not a big fan of these big 2nd contracts based on mostly potential but it's par for the course when you look at 2nd contracts around the league. It started with Tavares and Myers and took off from there.
I don't think these contracts will handcuff the team going forward.

The Hemsky contract has no bearing on the Gagner contract. Hemsky was a UFA and Gagner is still an RFA, the situations aren't remotely similar.
I would be weary about paying Smid a dime over $3.5 mil/yr long term. He is/was pretty overrated by a lot of Oiler fans. He's a guy who can play gritty and block a lot of shots otherwise, he doesn't really bring much to the table. His has a pretty low hockey IQ, is a ghost offensively and is fairly injury prone so i would be careful about overpaying him.
The other worry is if Smid is traded or walks at the end of the season, that the Oilers will just plug Klefbom into his spot or N. Schultz with Klefbom playing the bottom pairing for a while.
Stevie T is actually going to have make some tough decisions for a change.

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03-18-2013, 01:17 PM
  #842
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
The Hall, Eberle and Hemsky extensions coupled with the new salary cap really ****s the team over.

Setting the precedence for all the kids at 6 mil isn't bad, but it isn't good. Signing a second line player for 5 mil is terrible. There's no way Gagner should or will take less than Hemsky makes, so we dug ourselves a nice grave there with that contract. Also, when Yakupov ends up being better than Eberle, which he will, he'll command more than 6 mil.
the reason they gave hall 6 million is because that will set the bar... hall is this team, he is the best player on this team, now and likely far into the future... unless the cap goes up a LOT (and i mean a LOT), nobody is getting more than 6 million... i'm sure that is the plan at any point

the hemsky contract will be VERY easy to dump if we need the cap space... give yakupov the minutes hemsky is currently getting and save 3.2 million in cap space... hemsky's contract is not a problem, not at all

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:29 PM
  #843
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the reason they gave hall 6 million is because that will set the bar... hall is this team, he is the best player on this team, now and likely far into the future... unless the cap goes up a LOT (and i mean a LOT), nobody is getting more than 6 million... i'm sure that is the plan at any point

the hemsky contract will be VERY easy to dump if we need the cap space... give yakupov the minutes hemsky is currently getting and save 3.2 million in cap space... hemsky's contract is not a problem, not at all
I agree with the Hall contract, the Eberle one, not so much

I hope you're right about the cap, I think it'll go up too, but you never know.

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03-18-2013, 01:34 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
The Hall, Eberle and Hemsky extensions coupled with the new salary cap really ****s the team over.

Setting the precedence for all the kids at 6 mil isn't bad, but it isn't good. Signing a second line player for 5 mil is terrible. There's no way Gagner should or will take less than Hemsky makes, so we dug ourselves a nice grave there with that contract. Also, when Yakupov ends up being better than Eberle, which he will, he'll command more than 6 mil.
No one will make more than Hall. His contract is the "statement contract".

Hemsky also was putting up 70+ point seasons while playing the toughest opposition. You also have to realize that we paid him more for less term. Sure, Gagner is playing PPG, but he's playing sheltered minutes and has a ton more help than Hemsky ever had. I bet that Hemmer contract had a loyalty factor as well, and I'm okay with that.

I'd sign Gagner to a 4.5 mil/yr contract, but only for a year or two. He's got to understand that this was a shortened season and therefore, not an adequate season to base a contract on.

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03-18-2013, 02:35 PM
  #845
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As for Smid, if we let him go, we will almost officially be the Florida Panthers.

Developing a guy for seven years and letting him go because he's entering his prime, in favour of a rookie is laughable.
Agreed completely. We are not even near the cap. If we pay Smid $4M, does it really matter. It's insulating your young assets with veterans. Klefbom won't be close to ready next year, look at Schultz right now for God's sakes... he's going through some definite growing pains and is a far more mature prospect than Klefbom. Oliver Ekman-Larsson was not ready in his first season even, it's taken him 2.5 years to develop into the d-man he is now, how would fans expect Klefbom to get there almost immediately...

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03-18-2013, 03:18 PM
  #846
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Who was the last player to give the Oilers a hometown discount? Horcoff ? Hemsky?

The Oilers overpay everyone, it's just the way they roll.

I say cut Smid loose if he doesn't want to sign a reasonable contract. Either way you can't win cutting guys like that loose, but you can't win signing stupid contracts. Hich way are you handcuffed less?
One could say Gagner, Hemsky, Petry, and Smyth were all decent signings money wise at the time of signing...

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03-18-2013, 03:18 PM
  #847
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No one will make more than Hall. His contract is the "statement contract".

Hemsky also was putting up 70+ point seasons while playing the toughest opposition. You also have to realize that we paid him more for less term. Sure, Gagner is playing PPG, but he's playing sheltered minutes and has a ton more help than Hemsky ever had. I bet that Hemmer contract had a loyalty factor as well, and I'm okay with that.

I'd sign Gagner to a 4.5 mil/yr contract, but only for a year or two. He's got to understand that this was a shortened season and therefore, not an adequate season to base a contract on.
So he can walk in a year as a ufa?

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03-18-2013, 03:20 PM
  #848
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I agree with the Hall contract, the Eberle one, not so muchI hope you're right about the cap, I think it'll go up too, but you never know.
You also said that Omark wouldn't be that much of a step down from Hemsky...

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03-18-2013, 03:50 PM
  #849
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True, that hole it would create on the blueline would likely have no affect on the team.
Yes, Jimmi misquote. That's exactly what was implied, that Smid is useless and wouldn't leave any kind of void.

"Which way are you handcuffed less?"


Last edited by Bryanbryoil: 03-19-2013 at 04:02 AM.
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03-18-2013, 04:04 PM
  #850
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Gagner+smid+draft pick for webber.

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