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07-04-2012, 05:14 PM
  #176
plikestechno
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With the Schultz signing we don't need him here this year. I think it's too dangerous for their careers and for our progression as a team to introduce both this year. I'd rather him stay in the SEL for another year, play another WJC. Starting the ELC next year will look better for our cap in the years to come as well.

I also thought Kruger said something after development camp that he was less likely to be invited to camp. Can't find the exact quote but it was after the camp and he was downplaying him coming here for training camp.

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07-04-2012, 05:16 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post

There is no easy way to measure the effects that being "rushed" has on a player. Was Larsson rushed last year?
One can also argue that rushing Hedman didn't help him either.

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07-04-2012, 05:25 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by plikestechno View Post
One can also argue that rushing Hedman didn't help him either.
He's a top-4 defenseman now and is steadily improving. I don't think it hurt him, it was just tough (as one should expect) because the NHL isn't easy, even for top-end picks.(Save for the Nuge, he's like magic)

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07-04-2012, 05:27 PM
  #179
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He's a top-4 defenseman now and is steadily improving. I don't think it hurt him, it was just tough (as one should expect) because the NHL isn't easy, even for top-end picks.(Save for the Nuge, he's like magic)
Is he? His numbers since joining the league seem to have a flat line a la Gagner. Although it's not just offensive stats of course with D-men.

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07-04-2012, 05:29 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by plikestechno View Post
Is he? His numbers since joining the league seem to have a flat line a la Gagner. Although it's not just offensive stats of course with D-men.
He has, he plays in Tampa so I could see how his development may not show up in the same way someone like Subban's has.

Playing Defense in the NHL is hard enough, without worrying about scoring. My guess is his offensive numbers come around.

Look at Erik Karlsson's plus/minus before this season, and think that he won the Norris.

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07-04-2012, 05:29 PM
  #181
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A couple more examples among forwards... if the players are starting to look more "bust like" such as MPS or Niederreiter on the Isles... that's probably a sign they were thrown into the NHL too early.

Bogosian is another example among defensemen. He was basically regressing in his first few years and then has only now really started to come around to the promise he showed early on.

It's of course only really something that you can talk about in hindsight because you don't know if you've pushed them too quickly until you've actually pushed them into the lineup to find out but I'd honestly rather not take the chance at stunting his development when it isn't necessary to do so.

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07-04-2012, 05:40 PM
  #182
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On the other side of the coin you have a guy like Pietrangelo who the Blues took it slowly with and he's turning into the true stud dman that everyone thought he would be.

Again... some players are simply more talented than others so that plays a big part of it as well but I don't think you can just assume that talent overcomes everything and wave away the idea that players can actually be hindered and stunted by the way they are brought along and developed.

18/19 is simply too young in most cases for most "defense-first" players to be mature and physical enough to excel (not just cope with) the NHL level of play.

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07-04-2012, 05:44 PM
  #183
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Not that he's to blame but I can see for a young guy wanting to make some money and move somewhere exciting and new that he's a bit anxious to come over here. I'd be in the same boat. But the vibe I got from the Oilers staffers around development camp, especially as it wound down, is that while they are very excited about having him as their top D prospect (already pencilling Schultz on the big club ), they are also more than fine with him spending another year in the SEL. Too bad the SEL season starts so early. Just having him for a full training camp and some preseason games would help I think.

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07-04-2012, 06:01 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Guys seem to quite like Ralph after he talks to them. Perhaps Krueger worked some of his voodoo on Klefbom.
If there was an Olympics for social skills and motivational speaking, I think he'd be Michael Phelps. He made every kid and every fan and every Oiler staffer at the development camp feel like a million bucks. And it all seemed very genuine, not in a BS realtor/car salesperson kind of way. Everyone just melts in his presence within seconds. You just feel like he really cares about you and what you have to say. Conversely, you just want to be your best around him.

How it will translate on the ice, how the Oilers will compete against a tough Northwest division remains to be seen but I think we'll see a lot more pull and try and cohesion this year. How the message gets across after the first long losing streak, who knows?

It's quite a contrast to Tambellini who's quite shy and misanthropic. He knows he's a public figure but instinctively isn't comfortable with it. I'm not slagging the guy, he just is, we can't all be warm and fuzzy. Hanging around Krueger all week really points it out.

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07-04-2012, 06:45 PM
  #185
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I just dont see how you are pinning it on Klefbom. Maybe I am misunderstanding. Perhaps you are meaning more in general as per the above comment.

I really dont think any of us have seen enough of this guy to tell one way or the other where his development is and if he is or isnt ready to play in the nhl.

I mean most people never thought Hopkins would step right into the league and dominate like he did. Or Doughty, or Myers.

Its rare, but it can happen.

I am of the opinion that we should wait another year, Ive just got a feeling that they are going to push him into the lineup anyway.
It's more general.

Defensemen that can step in at a young age and be effective are pretty rare when you think about it, and usually do so on teams that have more than a few quality vets that can support them, which the Oilers are decidedly short on. Just don't see the Oilers with their extremely young forward core, lack of fully proven goaltender, and already young defense can provide the kind of shelter needed for more than one rookie defenseman's growing pains that they inevitibly go through unless they are planning for another difficult season.

It's not a criticism of Klefbom's potential, but more his experience on NA ice and the situation he'd be in if he played on the Oilers next year.


Last edited by Tarus: 07-04-2012 at 07:23 PM.
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07-04-2012, 06:53 PM
  #186
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Dear God, please leave him in Sweden


We cannot afford to **** this one up.

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07-04-2012, 06:55 PM
  #187
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Dear God, please leave him in Sweden


We cannot afford to **** this one up.


Another one? If they're that Fragile, it doesn't matter where they are.

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07-04-2012, 07:12 PM
  #188
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Klefbom needs to regard this as a decision between the AHL and SEL, not the NHL and SEL. He's certainly not best served jumping straight into the NHL without time to adapt in the AHL first. I would hate to see him starting in the NHL this year. That said, if he's choosing between the AHL and SEL, then I do hope he chooses AHL because if he's looking good and he's gotten most of what he's going to learn in the SEL, he can learn more and more quickly in the AHL with Oilers staff.

If the org says "pick one, AHL or SEL" and he says SEL, then it is what it is. Don't force him, or it could start to sour the relationship with the organization. Eventually he'll have to spend some time in the AHL anyway, but if he's not ready to embrace it then let him make the jump when he's ready to really put in the work.

I do hope he'd choose to come to the AHL right away, I think it's best. The last thing we need is another Swede feeling impatient in the AHL, and I think spending more time than is necessary in the SEL will lend itself to an increased personal feeling that it's time for the NHL.

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07-04-2012, 08:14 PM
  #189
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If he's playing against men in Sweden, bringing him here to play wouldn't be out of his realm of comfort, I would imagine. Doesn't he have one year left on his contract in the SEL though? Bringing him over here might be tough with that.

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07-04-2012, 08:20 PM
  #190
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Let him battle for a spot, if he's better than Justin Schultz, let him play.

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07-04-2012, 08:23 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plikestechno View Post
Is he? His numbers since joining the league seem to have a flat line a la Gagner. Although it's not just offensive stats of course with D-men.


Attn: Hedman is pretty ****ing good. Unfortunately for him, Roloson and his teammates are not.

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07-04-2012, 08:25 PM
  #192
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Attn: Hedman is pretty ****ing good. Unfortunately for him, Roloson and his teammates are not.
Doesn't this also mean Karlsson is brutal?

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07-04-2012, 08:29 PM
  #193
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Doesn't this also mean Karlsson is brutal?
Means that Karlsson gets easier starts and plays against lesser competition in comparison, although he also dominates it whereas Hedman breaks even.

Truth is just that Hedman gets thrown to the wolves more than any young d-man in the league and generally manages to get more than he gives up. It's hard to score in that position.

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07-04-2012, 08:36 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by syz View Post
Means that Karlsson gets easier starts and plays against lesser competition in comparison, although he also dominates it whereas Hedman breaks even.

Truth is just that Hedman gets thrown to the wolves more than any young d-man in the league and generally manages to get more than he gives up. It's hard to score in that position.
I see I see, nice. Hedman is a hell of a player and I know he had been making great strides in the last couple of years

Even Larsson, who sat in the playoffs, I would expect to have a big role on the Devils this year.

But can any of this factor in teammates?

Edit: I looked at it a bit more closely, Gudbranson was pretty awful then, lol

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07-04-2012, 08:48 PM
  #195
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I see I see, nice. Hedman is a hell of a player and I know he had been making great strides in the last couple of years

Even Larsson, who sat in the playoffs, I would expect to have a big role on the Devils this year.

But can any of this factor in teammates?

Edit: I looked at it a bit more closely, Gudbranson was pretty awful then, lol
Not sure what's considered in this chart in particular. Quality of linemates and on-ice save percentage are obviously a couple of things worth considering, though. I can say that Hedman got a .897 SV% from his goalies when he was on the ice this year, which is pretty horrible. It's not unusual for someone who's playing against all the other teams top players to see a lower save percentage, but those goalies really weren't helping anyone in TB this year.

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07-04-2012, 09:17 PM
  #196
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On the other side of the coin you have a guy like Pietrangelo who the Blues took it slowly with and he's turning into the true stud dman that everyone thought he would be.

Again... some players are simply more talented than others so that plays a big part of it as well but I don't think you can just assume that talent overcomes everything and wave away the idea that players can actually be hindered and stunted by the way they are brought along and developed.

18/19 is simply too young in most cases for most "defense-first" players to be mature and physical enough to excel (not just cope with) the NHL level of play.
He had 8 games in the NHL after a year in back in junior, then he was sent back. It's what we should do as well.

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07-04-2012, 10:52 PM
  #197
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At one point in time I didn't care about ELC's overlapping, however I'm not to thrilled at having to re-sign RNH, Nail, Schultz, and Klefbom a year apart. Stagger Klefbom's deal for a year IMO, not to mention it'd probably best for him to wait another year before he comes over.

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07-04-2012, 10:53 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
At one point in time I didn't care about ELC's overlapping, however I'm not to thrilled at having to re-sign RNH, Nail, Schultz, and Klefbom a year apart. Stagger Klefbom's deal for a year IMO, not to mention it'd probably best for him to wait another year before he comes over.
When you start worrying about that, you can forget about being good.

If they are good enough, you pay them, it's that simple.

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07-04-2012, 10:55 PM
  #199
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When you start worrying about that, you can forget about being good.

If they are good enough, you pay them, it's that simple.
IMO it's something to consider. We don't NEED to have 2 green rookies on the blueline next year or potentially 2 sophomore slumps on the blueline 2 years from now. Hell as good as OEL is he didn't spend his first year entirely in the NHL. Break in Schultz this year and Klefbom next year.

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07-04-2012, 11:01 PM
  #200
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IMO it's something to consider. We don't NEED to have 2 green rookies on the blueline next year or potentially 2 sophomore slumps on the blueline 2 years from now. Hell as good as OEL is he didn't spend his first year entirely in the NHL. Break in Schultz this year and Klefbom next year.
I think the sophomore slump is just as lame of an excuse as a person who fails their driving test saying "they need to meet a quota".

The players with the right combination of character and skill, don't face that issue.

The only problem you might have is a coach saying to a rookie "go out and get your feet wet" but then coming down on them in their 2nd year. (may be what happened with Maggy). They should be disciplined from day 1.

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