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Old
06-28-2012, 03:41 PM
  #126
Zip15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Stafford was the biggest turd on this team before Ennis came along. Foligno had played 2 NHL games. Can't find bigger turd's than that...
It's all because of Ennis, isn't it? Your points are so laughably overstated.

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06-28-2012, 03:41 PM
  #127
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
It's funny, all us Sabres fans are all knocking Ennis down from his pedestal but fans of other teams just raise him up.
If you think that's funny, have you ever heard of this Derek Roy fellow?

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06-28-2012, 03:43 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Hey, it's almost like Ryan is a good player or something
But here's the thing, Ryan's "down year" stat line would be career highs in goals and points for Ennis.

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06-28-2012, 03:44 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
It's all because of Ennis, isn't it? Your points are so laughably overstated.
Ennis was the reason that Staff had 31 goals the year before, I bet.

And he wasn't even on his line!

That's how good Ennis is!


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06-28-2012, 03:45 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
But here's the thing, Ryan's "down year" stat line would be career highs in goals and points for Ennis.


HOLY ****!!!!!


I don't really understand how that's relevant though.

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06-28-2012, 03:48 PM
  #131
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The qualcomp stat doesn't bother me at all.

The shooting percentage one is alarming, though.

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06-28-2012, 03:49 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
HOLY ****!!!!!

I don't really understand how that's relevant though.
If you don't understand why Player A's down year being better than Player B's career year is relevant, well........

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06-28-2012, 03:50 PM
  #133
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
But here's the thing, Ryan's "down year" stat line would be career highs in goals and points for Ennis.
And that year brought his 332nd NHL game and his 24th birthday. Tyler Ennis just completed his second NHL season and his 140th NHL game while turning 22. 2 years and 190 NHL games is a considerable difference when we're talking this level of experience, just as a 6 year age difference between sexual partners is considerably different when one of them is 15 compared to when one of them is 30.

Unlike most of the other points about Ryan, I don't think that one is particularly fair or meaningful.

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06-28-2012, 03:53 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
If you don't understand why Player A's down year being better than Player B's career year is relevant, well........
Just read this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
And that year brought his 332nd NHL game and his 24th birthday. Tyler Ennis just completed his second NHL season and his 140th NHL game while turning 22. 2 years and 190 NHL games is a considerable difference when we're talking this level of experience, just as a 6 year age difference between sexual partners is considerably different when one of them is 15 compared to when one of them is 30.

Unlike most of the other points about Ryan, I don't think that one is particularly fair or meaningful.

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06-28-2012, 04:24 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
It's all because of Ennis, isn't it? Your points are so laughably overstated.
Why do you turn everything I say into an all or nothing? You are the only one using these extremes.

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06-28-2012, 04:40 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Then where do I fit in this well-defined, hard world of hyperbole
The rational one

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06-28-2012, 05:13 PM
  #137
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The funny thing about using objective measures to claim Ryan is significantly better than Ennis is the fact that a huge portion of Ryan's trade value comes from his size and hitting. Over the past three seasons, Ryan is basically a 65 point player. Those are hardly elite stats. What makes him so marketable are those other things. But there is no way to objectively measure what impact his size and hitting has on the outcome of games.

If Ryan was 6 foot, 180 pounds, and made 40 less hits per year, I doubt anyone would be talking about trading Ennis for him.

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06-28-2012, 05:20 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelForbin View Post
The funny thing about using objective measures to claim Ryan is significantly better than Ennis is the fact that a huge portion of Ryan's trade value comes from his size and hitting. Over the past three seasons, Ryan is basically a 65 point player. Those are hardly elite stats. What makes him so marketable are those other things. But there is no way to objectively measure what impact his size and hitting has on the outcome of games.

If Ryan was 6 foot, 180 pounds, and made 40 less hits per year, I doubt anyone would be talking about trading Ennis for him.
He may be a 65 point player, but it's his finishing that lots of teams want. He's been good for 30 goals per year and has the ability for more.

But you're not wrong on the size/hitting part of it, either. It's a pretty big aspect.

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06-28-2012, 05:21 PM
  #139
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Isnīt this Ennisīs sophomore year?.......just saying. I think whatever WGR guy is advocating this should put the mic down.

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06-28-2012, 05:26 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Considering that Ryan played in a slightly higher-scoring league at the time, with recent cup winner and top-5 offense, his 67 points in 87 games by age 22 is pretty damn close to Ennis' 92 in 140. 7 in 15 playoff games for Ryan, 8 in 13 for Ennis.
Ryan drafted in 2005

05-06 --> no NHL games
06-07 --> no NHL games
07-08 --> 23gms 5g 5a 10pts
08-09 --> 64gms 31g 26a 57pts (82gm pace of 40g 33a 73pts)
09-10 --> 81gms 35g 29a 64pts
10-11 --> 82gms 34g 37a 71pts
11-12 --> 82gms 31g 26a 57pts

Ennis drafted in 2008

08-09 --> No NHL games
09-10 --> 10gms 3g 6a 9pts
10-11 --> 82gms 20g 29a 49pts
11-12 --> 48gms 15g 19a 34pts (26g 32a 58pts)

Ryan at the same point of his career as Ennis is now put up far better numbers.

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06-28-2012, 05:33 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelForbin View Post
The funny thing about using objective measures to claim Ryan is significantly better than Ennis is the fact that a huge portion of Ryan's trade value comes from his size and hitting. Over the past three seasons, Ryan is basically a 65 point player. Those are hardly elite stats. What makes him so marketable are those other things. But there is no way to objectively measure what impact his size and hitting has on the outcome of games.

If Ryan was 6 foot, 180 pounds, and made 40 less hits per year, I doubt anyone would be talking about trading Ennis for him.
And if my uncle had balls.....?.....I'd....have..a cousin?

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06-28-2012, 05:36 PM
  #142
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how many forwards have scored more total goals then Ryan in the last 4 years?

Anyone want to compile a list of the top 20 goal scorers over the last 4 years? (im guessing Ryan is in the top 20 )

i bet he's up there in ES Goals too...

How many players on that list have 120-150 hits a year?

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06-28-2012, 05:38 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Ryan drafted in 2005

05-06 --> no NHL games
06-07 --> no NHL games
07-08 --> 23gms 5g 5a 10pts
08-09 --> 64gms 31g 26a 57pts (82gm pace of 40g 33a 73pts)
09-10 --> 81gms 35g 29a 64pts
10-11 --> 82gms 34g 37a 71pts
11-12 --> 82gms 31g 26a 57pts

Ennis drafted in 2008

08-09 --> No NHL games
09-10 --> 10gms 3g 6a 9pts
10-11 --> 82gms 20g 29a 49pts
11-12 --> 48gms 15g 19a 34pts (26g 32a 58pts)

Ryan at the same point of his career as Ennis is now put up far better numbers.
As mentioned previously, Ryan had an even cushier setting than Ennis did for his first two years. 15 points more on a recent cup winner in 2008 isn't really that much better than Ennis' totals on an also-ran team in a lower-scoring league. If we want to directly compare seasons, though, Ennis' rookie year was dramatically better than Ryan's.

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06-28-2012, 05:44 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
As mentioned previously, Ryan had an even cushier setting than Ennis did for his first two years. 15 points more on a recent cup winner in 2008 isn't really that much better than Ennis' totals on an also-ran team in a lower-scoring league. If we want to directly compare seasons, though, .
No he didn't. Playing in the top 6 with 50% of your shifts on the top line is not a cushier set up than Ennis'. Its actually much tougher

Quote:
Ennis' rookie year was dramatically better than Ryan's
No it wasn't. Ryan's rookie year was the 08-09 season and that season was far better than Ennis' 20g 49pt rookie year.

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06-28-2012, 05:44 PM
  #145
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TBN article and 6 pages of posts by some of the most knowledgeable Sabres fans out there all completely miss the point we should trade Foligno and his 26% shooting percent for Stamkos, and his pedestrian 19%...



back on topic, Ennis should be available in the right deal, but I'd hesitate. He's the only guy on the roster who backs up opponents when he has the puck, is elusive, creates space, and gets it to people who can finish it to the net.

Max could back people up, and was elusive, but after the wrist injury he couldn't finish and wasn't good at dishing off after skating a couple loops around the offensive zone.

Leino creates space, but then seems to occupy it himself more than utilizing it to create scoring opportunities. More like shinny.

I suppose I'd do Ennis for Ryan, or Ennis+ if the + wasn't too much (i.e., not Sekera). My prefered solution, however, is to get Foligno, and better yet that turd Stafford to play like Ryan.

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06-28-2012, 05:44 PM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
how many forwards have scored more total goals then Ryan in the last 4 years?

Anyone want to compile a list of the top 20 goal scorers over the last 4 years? (im guessing Ryan is in the top 20 )

i bet he's up there in ES Goals too...

How many players on that list have 120-150 hits a year?
http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...order_by=goals

Interesting things:

Ryan's 9 in goals, but 18 in G/G (Right behind Vanek at 17). That's not an indictment of course, instead a celebration of his health over the past four years.

Matt Moulson is at 24 in G/G. So underrated.

AO's still over Crosby in G/G over the past 4 years despite his recent decline

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06-28-2012, 05:45 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
No he didn't.
My bad.


Measurable statistics would lead one to believe that Ryan had an easier time (or at best about as easy) of the first two years of his career than Ennis.

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06-28-2012, 05:45 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
As mentioned previously, Ryan had an even cushier setting than Ennis did for his first two years. 15 points more on a recent cup winner in 2008 isn't really that much better than Ennis' totals on an also-ran team in a lower-scoring league. If we want to directly compare seasons, though, Ennis' rookie year was dramatically better than Ryan's.
To be technical, his rookie season was the one JJ bolded, you're still a rookie until you play more than 25 NHL games in any season or in six or more NHL games in each of any two preceding seasons. It's not like Ryan was playing top 6 minutes in those 23 games anyways, their top 6 wingers were Perry, Kunitz, Bertuzzi, and Selanne. It's pretty irrelevant to their current roles and standing.

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06-28-2012, 05:49 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
As mentioned previously, Ryan had an even cushier setting than Ennis did for his first two years. 15 points more on a recent cup winner in 2008 isn't really that much better than Ennis' totals on an also-ran team in a lower-scoring league. If we want to directly compare seasons, though, Ennis' rookie year was dramatically better than Ryan's.
seriously... what the **** are you talking about???

08-09 --> 64gms 31g 26a 57pts (82gm pace of 40g 33a 73pts)
the year Ryan finished 2nd in Calder voting (the year they mistakenly gave it to Steve Mason )
vs
10-11 --> 82gms 20g 29a 49pts
the year Ennis finished 11th in Calder voting

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06-28-2012, 05:50 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
And if my uncle had balls.....?.....I'd....have..a cousin?
I'm just pointing out that a huge part of Ryan's trade value is due to his size and hit total. There's no way to measure the impact those things have on a game.

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