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Jonathan Bernier Has Asked For A Trade (All Bernier discussions)

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Old
07-14-2012, 11:42 AM
  #951
KallioWeHardlyKnewYe
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I don't see how any team is going to be desperate for an unproven goaltender at the deadline.

I don't see demand changing that much between now and next season.

Barring injury to Quick, Bernier isn't going to get a ton of playing time to help or hurt his cause.

Most of his value still is in the ever elusive idea of potential.

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07-14-2012, 11:47 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
No need to trade Johnny B till the deadline. More teams will be desperate, once their goalies don't work out.

If not just keep him for the year, perfect backup right now to Quick (Jones not ready).

If he refuses to play, well then Let him rot at home he is still a RFA.

The Kings have spent too much time and Money, developing Johnny B. Shouldn't let him go for mid prospects, garbage picks.....
Teams at the deadline will be looking for experienced goalies. Not unproven ones.

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07-14-2012, 11:56 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by ChillyPalmer View Post
Teams at the deadline will be looking for experienced goalies. Not unproven ones.
He's played in 48 games for the Kings. By the deadline, he should be at ~60-65 games. He was the top AHL tender in 09-10. He's 24 years old.

Teams that are dealing with the Kings at the deadline will in all likelihood be out of the playoff picture anyway. If any of those teams need a potential #1 goaltender, then Bernier's name should be at the forefront. Especially if they have a veteran winger or other rental player to give up.

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07-14-2012, 12:00 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by driller1 View Post
He's played in 48 games for the Kings. By the deadline, he should be at ~60-65 games. He was the top AHL tender in 09-10. He's 24 years old.

Teams that are dealing with the Kings at the deadline will in all likelihood be out of the playoff picture anyway. If any of those teams need a potential #1 goaltender, then Bernier's name should be at the forefront. Especially if they have a veteran winger or other rental player to give up.
Why would they give up a good piece if they're already out of the race? They'd basically offer the same thing they're offering now.

What if he plays poorly? Best to get rid of him now.

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07-14-2012, 12:12 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by ChillyPalmer View Post
Why would they give up a good piece if they're already out of the race? They'd basically offer the same thing they're offering now.

What if he plays poorly? Best to get rid of him now.
If a team has a veteran who has an expiring contract who they do not expect to resign, they would trade him for assets, seeing as how they have been eliminated anyhow. Hence the term "rental".

Given the parity in this league, many teams would not offer the same player now, because every team believes they can contend for the playoffs right now.

Kings are comfortable with Bernier based on his longevity in the system. Having a 1B as a backup isn't the worst thing in the world. What if the backup that replaces Bernier craps the bed?

People need to stop thinking in terms of maximizing Bernier's value and more about "What is the best possible roster the defending Stanley Cup champions can put on the ice?"

The answer to that question is most certainly having Bernier as a backup as the top choice. Number two would be to trade him for a roster player in an area of need. Thankfully, there are no gaping holes in the lineup right now, but injuries happen. Having a nice trade chip at the deadline is a good thing. Trading for draft picks is last in priority since Kings are in win now mode.

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07-14-2012, 03:22 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Just because he isn't 6'7 doesnt mean he is small.
A goalie relys on his positioning play and reflexes mixed with experiance.
Have you ever seen Belfour play ????????//
He isn't huge man either but he had the gift of elite positioning.
It was so interesting to see him play from goalie point of view.
He never had to move a single inchdoesn't matter from where the shooter made the shot. He barely had to go down to the butterfly because everyone was just shoting into his mats.
He is too small to be a "positional only" goaltender -- IMO. And yes, I saw Belfour play many times (especially with Dallas)-- Bernier is nothing like Belfour...Eddie was athletic and had the fight of the devil in him -- nearly impossible to beat down low and gave up few rebounds. Have you watched Bernier in the SO? -- brutal. He is still young for a goaltender but I just don't see a legit starter role in the cards for him.

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07-14-2012, 03:53 PM
  #957
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If Bernier does not have many suitors, thats fine. He is under contract for this season and a RFA next year. We can probably work out a paln where Bernier can start 10 or so more games, like Vacouver did with Schneider. That will allow Bernier time to get into his groove and pick up some suitors, like the ones from last year

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07-14-2012, 05:12 PM
  #958
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07-14-2012, 07:20 PM
  #959
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It's hilarious how fans have no interest in Jonathan Bernier because they feel he is "unproven". Like he's never played and was successful at organized hockey in his life. Yet, this thread has endured for 39 PAGES TO THIS POINT!

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07-14-2012, 07:31 PM
  #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitpik View Post
It's hilarious how fans have no interest in Jonathan Bernier because they feel he is "unproven". Like he's never played and was successful at organized hockey in his life. Yet, this thread has endured for 39 PAGES TO THIS POINT!
The 'goalies grow on trees' syndrome in HF. Then your team is half way through a season with a 2.75 + GAA...

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07-14-2012, 07:33 PM
  #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitpik View Post
It's hilarious how fans have no interest in Jonathan Bernier because they feel he is "unproven". Like he's never played and was successful at organized hockey in his life. Yet, this thread has endured for 39 PAGES TO THIS POINT!
It isn't lack of interest, it is unwillingness to give up a high pick for him.

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07-14-2012, 07:34 PM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitpik View Post
It's hilarious how fans have no interest in Jonathan Bernier because they feel he is "unproven". Like he's never played and was successful at organized hockey in his life. Yet, this thread has endured for 39 PAGES TO THIS POINT!
I think it means if a team like Toronto or Tampa get desperate to make the playoffs, they wouldn't pony up assets for someone who could end up being exactly like Reimer/Lindback.

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07-14-2012, 07:45 PM
  #963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitpik View Post
It's hilarious how fans have no interest in Jonathan Bernier because they feel he is "unproven". Like he's never played and was successful at organized hockey in his life. Yet, this thread has endured for 39 PAGES TO THIS POINT!
It's not a lack of interest. It's a lack of interest in giving up either NHL-proven assets/1st rounders. Seriously, idk why LA fans expect a 1st + for him. Hasek was traded for a career AHLer when he was unproven and stuck behind Belfour. Varlamov got that, but he was much more proven at the time than Bernier is now.

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07-14-2012, 07:49 PM
  #964
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I think Bernier is ideal for a team like New Jersey.

As a Leafs fan I'd much rather have Lu.

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07-14-2012, 07:50 PM
  #965
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Bernier's trade value isn't that high right now due to the uncertainty of how he will perform as a starter. But then again, San Jose was in a similar situation when they had Nabokov, Kiprusoff and Toskala.

Calgary ended up acquiring the best goalie of that trio as Nabokov was the more established goaltender at the time that San Jose was not going to give up. Toronto acquired Toskala and he fizzled as a starter. So there is that uncertainty that will definitely cloud a team's judgement when assessing Bernier's value.

Ultimately, it would be best for Bernier and the Kings to remain patient and wait for the trade opportunity to present itself rather than forcing it. There are no vacant starting roles that Bernier can be thrust into, no matter where he is dealt. It would be wise for the Kings to see how teams perform at the first half of the season as teams may have a better idea of where they stand with their goaltending.

A few examples of situations that may crop up:

-Chicago's goaltending may struggle.

-Kiprusoff may want to be moved to a contender if the Flames are once again out of playoff contention. That would leave a big gap in net for Calgary as it doesn't appear that they can entrust either Karlsson nor Irving to take over as starting goalies.

-Brodeur/Hedberg may start to decline in New Jersey, forcing Lou to look towards the future and address his team's need for a future successor in net after Brodeur retires.

-If the Islanders are out of the playoffs, Nabokov may want out and they may look to find a young netminder with the potential to become a starter immediately or at the very least by 2013-14.

-If Bobrovsky and Mason both falter in Columbus, the Blue Jackets will look elsewhere to make an upgrade in net.

-The same scenario applies in Edmonton if the tandem of Dubnyk and Khabibulin both struggle. They are an organization that is going to look to take steps forward, and subpar goaltending may stall that team's development.

-Once again, same can be said with Tampa Bay if Lindback can't handle the pressure of being a starter. They will not rely on Garon to take over as their #1 option.

-Toronto may be the team with the most uncertain outlook in net. Could Reimer remain healthy, and if so, can he handle the starting role throughout the entire season? And we don't know if Scrivens or Rynnas are ready to relieve Reimer of any pressure.

We have to keep all of these probably scenarios in mind that may come up during the 2012-13 season. The demand may not be there now for Bernier, but give it a few months after October and we'll see a change in the market for goaltenders.

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07-14-2012, 07:52 PM
  #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitpik View Post
It's hilarious how fans have no interest in Jonathan Bernier because they feel he is "unproven". Like he's never played and was successful at organized hockey in his life. Yet, this thread has endured for 39 PAGES TO THIS POINT!
It's not that there's no interest. It's the cost some think he's worth.

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07-14-2012, 07:55 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
[/B]
I'll use the Hawks as an example.Any talks that included Saad,Teravainen or a 1st next yr(strong draft)would be about Quick not Bernier.He has proven himself to be a top notch tender while Bernier has yet to do so.You would be trading for potential which ,while high,is not proven value and therefore a bit less costly.
For how little Bernier has played in NHL, he has played more games than Saad, Teravainen and 1st 2013 combined. Over/under estimation is always a problem with this board. It really is the what have you done for me lately syndrome. Bernier probably has more value when he conquered the AHL than he does now. And I laugh when you wouldn't give up Saad or Teravainen or 1st, when some Edmonton's fans are ok with trading MPS. (MPS was considered one of,if not, the best prospects before he stepped onto NHL ice a few years ago. The question becomes, is Bernier really that much more costly than your prospects? Absolutely not. If Saad makes the NHL roster, he gets paid about 400k less than Bernier. So Bernier's contract is a bargain and he's next contract, unless he goes out and destroy the NHL next season, would be very manageable

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07-14-2012, 08:07 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by Guitpik View Post
It's hilarious how fans have no interest in Jonathan Bernier because they feel he is "unproven". Like he's never played and was successful at organized hockey in his life. Yet, this thread has endured for 39 PAGES TO THIS POINT!
People who are fans of other teams who need a real goalie, think that they can toss the 'unproven' label on the wall and hope it sticks.

Great players have to start from somewhere, all of them are 'unproven' at the elite level until they actually do it.....but, because they havent 'done it' at the major league level, does that mean they're not still extremely valuable?

Do you think the Washington Nats would have traded away Bryce Harper for a 6 pack of coke and a bag of chips if some team came to them and said "well, Bryce is unproven at the MLB level, so, can we have him for a bag of balls and bats?"

That's not how it works. People inside the game of hockey know Bernier is potentially a star goalie....the fact that he hasnt done anything in the NHL yet means nothing, you still have to pay a premium for the P word. Potential.

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07-14-2012, 08:12 PM
  #969
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lmfao, Bernier is nowhere near the type of prospect Harper is or was. Harper was the Crosby/LeBron of prospects. That is an awful comparison.

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07-14-2012, 08:14 PM
  #970
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Originally Posted by puckyeah View Post
People who are fans of other teams who need a real goalie, think that they can toss the 'unproven' label on the wall and hope it sticks.

Great players have to start from somewhere, all of them are 'unproven' at the elite level until they actually do it.....but, because they havent 'done it' at the major league level, does that mean they're not still extremely valuable?

Do you think the Washington Nats would have traded away Bryce Harper for a 6 pack of coke and a bag of chips if some team came to them and said "well, Bryce is unproven at the MLB level, so, can we have him for a bag of balls and bats?"

That's not how it works. People inside the game of hockey know Bernier is potentially a star goalie....the fact that he hasnt done anything in the NHL yet means nothing, you still have to pay a premium for the P word. Potential.
Bryce Harper? If you wanna comparison in hockey, that would be Crosby. Bernier is not a cant miss type guy. Plus, teams have been severely burned in these trades for goalies with huge potential. The price has come way down over the years. If he was this can't miss guy, teams would be knocking down the Kings door. Doesn't seem like they are.

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07-14-2012, 08:15 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Bernier's trade value isn't that high right now due to the uncertainty of how he will perform as a starter. But then again, San Jose was in a similar situation when they had Nabokov, Kiprusoff and Toskala.

Calgary ended up acquiring the best goalie of that trio as Nabokov was the more established goaltender at the time that San Jose was not going to give up. Toronto acquired Toskala and he fizzled as a starter. So there is that uncertainty that will definitely cloud a team's judgement when assessing Bernier's value.

Ultimately, it would be best for Bernier and the Kings to remain patient and wait for the trade opportunity to present itself rather than forcing it. There are no vacant starting roles that Bernier can be thrust into, no matter where he is dealt. It would be wise for the Kings to see how teams perform at the first half of the season as teams may have a better idea of where they stand with their goaltending.

A few examples of situations that may crop up:

-Chicago's goaltending may struggle.

-Kiprusoff may want to be moved to a contender if the Flames are once again out of playoff contention. That would leave a big gap in net for Calgary as it doesn't appear that they can entrust either Karlsson nor Irving to take over as starting goalies.

-Brodeur/Hedberg may start to decline in New Jersey, forcing Lou to look towards the future and address his team's need for a future successor in net after Brodeur retires.

-If the Islanders are out of the playoffs, Nabokov may want out and they may look to find a young netminder with the potential to become a starter immediately or at the very least by 2013-14.

-If Bobrovsky and Mason both falter in Columbus, the Blue Jackets will look elsewhere to make an upgrade in net.

-The same scenario applies in Edmonton if the tandem of Dubnyk and Khabibulin both struggle. They are an organization that is going to look to take steps forward, and subpar goaltending may stall that team's development.

-Once again, same can be said with Tampa Bay if Lindback can't handle the pressure of being a starter. They will not rely on Garon to take over as their #1 option.

-Toronto may be the team with the most uncertain outlook in net. Could Reimer remain healthy, and if so, can he handle the starting role throughout the entire season? And we don't know if Scrivens or Rynnas are ready to relieve Reimer of any pressure.

We have to keep all of these probably scenarios in mind that may come up during the 2012-13 season. The demand may not be there now for Bernier, but give it a few months after October and we'll see a change in the market for goaltenders.
Exactly this. Change your avatar though

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07-14-2012, 08:44 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
-If the Islanders are out of the playoffs, Nabokov may want out and they may look to find a young netminder with the potential to become a starter immediately or at the very least by 2013-14.
You really weren't listening were you?

Garth has gone on to say that our goaltending depth is the Islanders' strongest asset with Nabokov in net right now, along with Poulin, Nilsson, and Koskinen waiting to become NHL starters. Poulin is NHL ready, will probably be back up this season to Nabokov and be ready to be the starter in 2013-14. Nilsson and Koskinen are not far off from that.

The Islanders aren't trading from positions of weakness (forward, D depth) for a position of strength (goaltending).

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07-14-2012, 09:00 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
You really weren't listening were you?

Garth has gone on to say that our goaltending depth is the Islanders' strongest asset with Nabokov in net right now, along with Poulin, Nilsson, and Koskinen waiting to become NHL starters. Poulin is NHL ready, will probably be back up this season to Nabokov and be ready to be the starter in 2013-14. Nilsson and Koskinen are not far off from that.

The Islanders aren't trading from positions of weakness (forward, D depth) for a position of strength (goaltending).
Guess we'll have to wait and see. You keep talking about these prospects who have barely had a sniff of NHL action. Columbus once thought that their goaltending was a position of strength.

Here's a rundown of what that organization went through in net: they had Marc Denis who was supposed to be the next great French Canadian goalie to come out of Colorado's system, AHL MVP Jean-Francois Labbe, they had drafted Pascal Leclaire at 8th overall, they thought they had acquired a reliable and experienced goalie in Martin Prusek, thought Dan LaCosta would amount to at least a backup (which didn't happen), thought they had their future franchise goalie in Steve Mason, who was the rookie of the year in 2009, and just recently went through a goaltending carousel this past season and are unsure of who will be their starter next season.

Now if the Islanders are once again on the outside looking in, and their young goalies show that they aren't ready to assume regular duty in the NHL, think Snow is going to sit on his hands? And did I state that the Kings need immediate help by bringing in NHL ready talent in exchange for Bernier? No I did not, so maybe you should heed your own advice and learn to pay attention.

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07-14-2012, 09:47 PM
  #974
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
You really weren't listening were you?

Garth has gone on to say that our goaltending depth is the Islanders' strongest asset with Nabokov in net right now, along with Poulin, Nilsson, and Koskinen waiting to become NHL starters. Poulin is NHL ready, will probably be back up this season to Nabokov and be ready to be the starter in 2013-14. Nilsson and Koskinen are not far off from that.

The Islanders aren't trading from positions of weakness (forward, D depth) for a position of strength (goaltending).
Honest question: Where does DiPietro fit in? You mentioned Nabokov, Poulin, Nilsson and Koskinen and not DiPietro. Kinda funny actually.

Is he just going to be that guy that sits on the sidelines for the next decade and collects 4 and a half a year or do the Islanders still plan on helping him fully recover and actually be a part of the team?

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07-15-2012, 01:12 AM
  #975
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lmfao, Bernier is nowhere near the type of prospect Harper is or was. Harper was the Crosby/LeBron of prospects. That is an awful comparison.
That's not the point. The point was to shoot down the idea that players who 'havent done anything' in the big leagues is not something that determines a player's value or worth.

As far as the 'type' of prospect, Bernier is a goalie and a goalie in hockey is 10X more important than an outfielder in baseball. So, even if Harper is 10x more talented than Bernier, he's still one man of 25 and not a goalie on an NHL team. A top notch goalie has more of an impact on his team's championship chances than even a #1 starter in baseball does.

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